Re: Canon 1Ds MKIII or 1Ds MKII for weddings and photojournalism?

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by cimino55, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. Hello,

    I am ready to upgrade from a Canon 5D, to either the 1Ds Mark II or 1Ds
    Mark III. I've having a bit of dilemma, due to the fact that I don't want to
    spend $6000 for a new 1Ds MKII, and really the only other place to get a good
    used body will be "that auction site." That scares me a little to spend
    $3500-$4000 on a used camera body. The we have the new flagship 1Ds Mark III...
    Can't find it anywhere, and I'll pretty much have to beg, borrow and steal to
    drop $8000 on a camera body, but I can do it. I have another $5000 for lenses,
    at the moment.

    I want to use the camera to continue doing weddings, then after wedding
    season, I am going to Africa for a few months to do documentary work for my
    website. I've traveled with a Contax 645 to Africa 6 times, and it never failed
    me once. I need a hard-core camera body that can live up to well, torture
    basically. When I go on photography trips, I don't pussyfoot around in tourist
    buses, I get right in there with the locals. I like to assimilate into the
    culture, and really feel like I'm there. Dust, rain, snow...they are all part
    of the equation! What would you do? I'm trying to break through, by not being
    ordinary, but extraordinary...

    If I choose the 1Ds Mark III, when will I be able to buy it. B+H is fresh out...

    Thanks for your time,

    Adam Cimino
     
  2. Umm... Neither?

    My first thought was to a 1D III, especially for the wedding & dusty bits. Then I read this post - http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00O496

    Please keep in mind i'm 'bench racing' here and have not shot with any of the above gear.

    --
     
  3. I'd wait to see if Canon announces a new 5d this month and see what it does to prices for used 1ds Mark IIs. If they don't announce it until the fall, and I've got to have it now, and I've got the cash, I'd buy a good used one from KEH or some other reputable reseller. It will cost you more than the auction site, but you're paying for reliability.
     
  4. "I want to use the camera to continue doing weddings, then after wedding season, I am going to Africa for a few months to do documentary work for my website."
    Why not get a second 5D (or whatever the new incarnation will be that's supposedly being announced next week) for your wedding work, and get a used 1D/1D MkII for your abusive travel "documentary work for my website"? Do you really need 21 MP full frame for photos that will go on your website? Do you really need 21 MP or even 16 MP for anything? I know of several successful wedding photographers who do very well with 8-10 MP cameras.
    You might also be interested to read this article by Jeff Ascough (see "Cameras and the Desire to Upgrade", second story down).
     
  5. Almost everything in your post is at odds with your opening sentence. Do you *need* another camera? I'd be inclined to just sit tight with the 5D till your needs gell and/or the money is easier.
     
  6. 1. Why do you write off the 1D Mk II/N and 1D Mk III?

    2. A very good second-hand forum is in at FM. From personal experience, sellers and buyers are very honest people.

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10

    Happy shooting,
    Yakim.
     
  7. Save your money. Either of the 1Ds series is overkill for the work you do. Steve Frischling has been doing high-level PJ and weddings very successfully for several years with an original 4-megapixel 1D. The 1DII, 1DIIn or the 1DIII are all plenty of camera for your needs.
    http://flyingwithfish.blogspot.com/
     
  8. "Please keep in mind i'm 'bench racing' here and have not shot with any of the above gear."

    Dan - trust me (and many others) the 1D3 is absolutely fine.
     
  9. I agree that the 1DIIN or 1DIII would be better bets for wedding/photojournalism. I shoot a LOT of weddings and because I have them, use 1DsII's but really prefer my 1DIIN and 1DIII (blue dot version) even more. Unless you're shooting a bridal portrait, file sizes above 8 megapixels aren't necessary. If the odd shot that needs more pixels should arise later, there is always Genuine Fractals. I definitely encourage the 1 series cameras over the 5D because of the dual-card capability - you never know when a CF might decide to malfunction during an important shoot. That second SD card can be a life-saver.
     
  10. Workflow ...Workflow...WorkSLOW with bigger files that you may never need. I use a 5D and no one ever needed anything bigger than a 20x24 which it can easily do.
     
  11. "I use a 5D and no one ever needed anything bigger than a 20x24 which it can easily do."

    The 5D is completely incompatable with "I need a hard-core camera body that can live up to well, torture basically." and "Dust, rain, snow...they are all part of the equation!"
     
  12. I have never exposed cameras to torture during any wedding photography. The average wedding is not Rallye Paris-Dakar.
     
  13. Rallye Paris-Dakar...that kills me. I saw that in Erfoud, Morocco, or somewhere around there. It's looking like a good used 1Ds MkII. I don't want to sell an organ for a 1Ds MKIII.
    I'm not interested in carrying a 5D in a plastic bag should I want to shoot near water.
    Thanks for your help...
    Anyone have a 1Ds MKII they want to sell? :)

    Adam
     
  14. >> Dan - trust me (and many others) the 1D3 is absolutely fine.


    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/596128

    I think that these 27 pages (and counting...) suggest that not all are indeed fine.

    Happy shooting,
    Yakim.
     
  15. I used a 5D last year for 50+ nights of Dirt Motorsports Racing. If you have never been to a Dirt Track race let me tell you that a White car will turn Brown with the settling dust. Not to mention most events are at night with high humidity(dew) and in the spring/fall COLD. then there is also the occasional rain and baking sun. I had zero problems with the 5D or the attached 70-200 f/2.8L IS. I sent them both to Canon for cleaning and adjustment at the end of the race season and there were no noted problems. Can't imagine any more rugged than that.
     
  16. "I think that these 27 pages (and counting...) suggest that not all are indeed fine."

    I wonder how many pages it would come to if all those who were happy were to post their experiences - probably several hundred thousand.
     
  17. "Can't imagine any more rugged than that."

    I can ... something a bit more "rugged" than this:

    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00M7SE

    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00MiN6

    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00LmCF

    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00NuEo

    (There are "27" pages of this also" : -)

    As they age, putting a Prosumer camera to a real world professional test is a crap shoot IMO. To each his or her own.

    RE: 1DMK3.

    Lots of controversy. I'm sure there is a problem, and all those professional sports shooters aren't dreaming up problems for themselves. They have the camera, so are just as vulnerable to a "devaluated" image as those of us who have the
    camera and use it for work less demanding than sports, auto racing or birding photography ... the very thing this camera is supposedly designed to do.

    That said, it appears the 1DMK3 is perfectly suited for Wedding and Event work ... which was the subject of this thread. My early serial number 1DMK3 has not suffered from the AF issue at all ... however, I have yet had a bride do the aisle in under 4 seconds while leaping hurdles in hot conditions as I hose off 10 FPS in AI Servo ... and so far (finger crossed) the mirror hasn't fallen out during the kiss shot like a 5D : -) The 1DMK3 returns to Canon today for the
    updated mirror box fix.

    All-in-all, the various upgraded functions like Live-view, lighter weight, 14 bit, 3" LCD, ease of controls, dust control, and its improved pro-level build quality are incremental advancements that make it a nice option for wedding and
    event shooters.

    Now if Canon would only back off the AA filter a bit, and fix their wide angle optics it'd be a dream system for any wedding & event shooter.
     
  18. Thank you Mark...I will avoid the 5D like I do broccoli...
    I've decided to sell one of my organs to get a 1Ds MKIII...
    Which one gets the highest price?

    Adam
     
  19. The one with the least disease Adam : -)
     
  20. I wonder how many pages it would come to if all those who were happy were to post their experiences - probably several hundred thousand.
    More lipstick on a pig, IMHO. Many early 1D3 cameras had abysmal autofocus in AI Servo mode.
     
  21. "Many early 1D3 cameras had abysmal autofocus in AI Servo mode."

    "Abysmal" sounds like an exaggeration just for the sake of argument Mark. The samples
    I've seen do show an intermittent problem under certain conditions, but "abysmal"?

    The question is ... does the Canon "recall" replacement of the mirror box assembly bring
    those earlier cameras up to the same standard as the so called "Blue Dot" later cameras?
    (Not debating IF the fix to the new cameras is adequate to correct it, just wether the fix to
    the older ones is equal to the newer cameras).

    If so, then no problem since Canon has made this fix painless to owners of the earlier
    models.

    If NOT, then Canon simply should have replaced the first cameras altogether.

    If NOT, it would be interesting to investigate wether Michigan's "Lemon Law" can be
    applied here ... under this Law, attorney fees have to be paid by the manufacturer. If my
    camera isn't fixed when it returns, I may ask my attorney.

    If not, perhaps a class action suit is the next step? The economy is what's "abysmal" and
    few photographers can afford such a major depreciation hit to their income. It may also
    mean that some hungry Law firm would be willing to take on yet another indifferent
    "Global Corporation".
     
  22. As I said in an earlier thread, when I first considered getting a 1D3, I talked to 6 or 8 early
    buyers of the 1D3 who tried it for wildlife action shots (birds in flight, etc.). Every single
    one reported unreliable AI Servo AF and returned the cameras. One guy tried two of them
    and both were bad. Didn't Galbraith report finding the problem in all the early cameras he
    tried?

    In my use of the word "abysmal" I mean "can't be trusted to perform reliably", which I think
    sums up the servo AF situation with early production 1D3's.

    That said, I now have a 'blue dot' 1D3 and it seems to perform about as well as my older
    1D2 in AI Servo. Maybe a little better in dim light, and -- very subjectively; haven't tested
    this in any statistically meaningful way -- maybe not quite as many in-focus 'keepers' in
    bright sunlight. I like the camera but because of the unfortunate issues with earlier
    models, I can't help being a little suspicious of it.
     
  23. "If so, then no problem since Canon has made this fix painless to owners of the earlier models."

    Painless would be an understatement. If not for the "Galbraith Report", I wonder when Canon would have done something. I remember people ripping Rob at that time, but Canon screwed the customers over big time. 5D or 1DMK3 - consumer or pro - both have issues. BUT, early adopters pay the price. I just think quality control is getting too lax at Canon. Maybe now that Nikon has upped the game, they will get more on the ball.
     
  24. >> I wonder how many pages it would come to if all those who were happy were to post their experiences - probably several hundred thousand.

    Before Canon announced the fix FM had two big surveys on this. Several hundreds of users took part in each. The results were approximately 50/50. It is likely to assume that now, when blue dot units are in the market and fix is available, the percentage will be markedly different. Nevertheless, I am not yet ready to dive into the cold water. I am an amateur and such amount of money is very considerable to me. I prefer to wait until I am satisfied that all new units are 100% fine.

    As always, YMMV.

    Happy shooting,
    Yakim.
     
  25. Yeah Bogdan ... I wonder where the beta testers were on all this?

    Even worse than this was the Leica M8 experience where no one seemed to notice that the
    camera turned any synthetic black material into magenta ... which I blew the whistle on the
    day I got mine.

    I think it's the frenzied rush to market to preempt the competition that is turning the general
    buying public into beta testers. A greedy and stupid policy.
     
  26. "I think it's the frenzied rush to market to preempt the competition that is turning the general buying public into beta testers. A greedy and stupid policy."

    Very true, but since the camera makers know their latest and greatest will sell like hot bread as soon as it hits the street, they just don't worry too much. This is why I wait (if I can), until a camera is out for at least 6 months before buying. And this is why more competition is good and will only serve the customers better.
     

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