provia 100F vs velvia 100F

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by bruce_erickson|1, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. Can someone explain the difference between these two slide films? (One of them is 1$ cheaper at B&H.)
     
  2. david_henderson

    david_henderson www.photography001.com

    They are different films with somewhat different colour, reciprocity characteristics that you can see by looking for their data sheets on the Fujifilm website.
    Provia 100F is a little more neutral/less warm than all the Velvia range and has a tendency towards blue shadows in low light that is easily corrected by a warming filter or after a scan. Provia is possbibly the most realistic all-round slide film that Fuji now make, but retains a pleasing degree of contrast and punch.
    Velvia 100F ( which I thought has been/is being discontinued ) has IMO a peculiar palette which I dislike. Whilst being a somewhat saturated film it has an unfortunate tendency to render blue skies a little magenta, yellows as orange, oranges as a warm brown, and dull greens as a dirty olive. The back story here is that years ago the Velvia 50(RVP) flagship product was discontinued and Velvia 100F introduced to replace it. Many didn't like it so another film -Velvia 100- that was previously restricted to Japan was launched as well. Then shortly after, Fuji relaunched Velvia 50 but left the two 100ISO variants in place. Each of the 3 has some supporters though I suspect that RVP has again become the most prominent. I'm surprised that its taken Fuji so long to act to simplify their Velvia range.
     
  3. Yes, Velvia 100F has been discontinued. Final shipments are arriving in the UK in December if I recall correctly, so I presume it's something similar for the US. From now on, reversal films available from Fujifilm in 135/120 formats are:
    Velvia 50
    Velvia 100
    Provia 100F
    Provia 400X
    In a nutshell, Velvia films produce more saturated colours, with Provia films having more "natural" colours.
    Note that Fujifilm also uses the Velvia, Provia and Astia (marketed as a portrait/fashion film with low saturation and natural skintones; now discontinued) names in its digital cameras for modes that attempt to replicate the look of the different films.
    00b77Q-507649584.jpg
     
  4. Thanks Colin, that's a useful bit of information.
     
  5. Velvia 50, and Provia 100F are the films that make, or have purposeful sense. Velvia 100, and 100F, and they're awkward tonal shifts as mentioned above so accurately by David are real, and expecting something different, I got in trouble with in landscape scenes, so I won't be missing them.
     
  6. mva

    mva

    Perhaps originally colour slides weer chiefly used for projection. Today I just scan; so I prefer Provia 100F. With Provia, if I want to enhance the saturation, I can easily do it in Photoshop without emphasising too much the colour noise. Once I scanned Velvia, instead, and the colour was so saturated that I did not manage to keep it within the AdobeRGB colour space! So at the end, although I do like saturated colours, because I scan, Provia 100F is my fvourite film.
     
  7. I have found that Velvia 50 scanned, saved to AdobeRGB at 16bit translates well, and for printing lightjet printer color gamut does better than inkjet.
     
  8. david_henderson

    david_henderson www.photography001.com

    In the ten years to say 2007 I shot about 5000 frames of medium format slide film a year. Of this, about 80% was Velvia. So when it came down to making prints, providing material to stock agencies, making Blurb books from that era of my work, and gathering images for my successive websites I and others on my behalf scanned a great deal of medium format Velvia- certainly thousand of frames. Mostly I/we scanned to Adobe RGB 16 bit .
    Now I'm not saying that there wasn't the odd frame that just wouldn't scan right, but if you accepted that there was a requirement to make colour and exposure adjustments afterwards, and avoided the selection of slides with large black or almost impenetrably dark areas where you really won't get any detail and if you try you'll end up with a muddy mess, it was generally possible to get good scans. Certainly I'd count the prints made from Tango drum scans of Velia originals by West Coast Imaging as amongst the best and most detailed prints made from my work.
    In short, I've always tried to match the film choice to the subject and the light, rather than how I was going to use it afterwards (which very often I didn't know anyway) and relied on the ability to get a good file later. So scanning never put me off Velvia 50, although a decent wind, or a need to hand-hold, or a really bright sunset would get me running a mile.
     
  9. David, Velvia 100F was not the replacement for the "plain" Velvia. Infact Velvia 100 has been introduced in 2003 and never marketed as a replaceement for Velvia. When Velvia has been discontinued Fuji introduced Velvia 100 as a replacement (year 2005 if I recall correctly), then in 2007 they reintroduced the new Velvia 50, supposed to be the same (at least in therms of results) as the previous Velvia. In my experience the new Velvia 50 is not exactly the same as the previous Velvia, in fact I was used to expose the old Velvia as a 40 ISO film; comparing the result side by side (the same picture taken with both films) I noticed that the new Velvia 50 produce the same results as the previous Velvia only if exposed at 50 ISO.
     
  10. david_henderson

    david_henderson www.photography001.com

    Diego. I don't agree with your first sentence and the first half of the second.
    I do agree that the "relaunched" velvia 50 was not quite the same as the original RVP, and like you think that the later version was closer to box speed than its predecessor.
    My recollection was that Fuji gave a lot of notice- at least a year IIRC- for the discontinuation of the original Velvia 50 and launched Velvia 100F as its replacement except in Japan where they launched both 100F and 100. It didn't take long to work out that 100F was not going to be accepted by everyone, and the Velvia 100 product was hurriedly released in N America and Europe. Haven't go a clue about elsewhere. Meanwhile the supply of the original 50 seemed to go on for ever as delers stocked up, and it is certainly the case that Velvia 100 was launched in Europe whilst you could still buy the original 50. None of this means that Velvia 100F wasn't meant to be the replacement though; Fuji simply changed their mind after the event due to poor response to 100F and introduced the choice as in Japan. Subsequently it became clear that even that was going to cause an issue with some high volume users so they relented and launched a supposedly identical but reformulated Velvia 50. Some of us effectively enjoyed continuity of supply on 50 and indeed I still had plenty of "original" stock when the new Velvia 50 was relaunched. The only 100F/100 I used was an extensive look and see, and in reality I decided that if I had to use a 100ISO film it was going to be Provia 100F rated at a half stop faster than box speed rather than either of them.
     
  11. I have found that not only does the newer Velvia 50 expose better a asa 50, but that it is also more consistent at 50 than the former. 40 worked with the former, as we agree, but I found some wavering over and under with the former Velvia. Today at asa 50, my results are as consistent as I could ever expect with a positive film. Very pleased with the newer Velvia 50. It also helps having confidence with a good meter. The Pentax 67II AE meter was instrumental in determening my findings between the two Velvia 50 releases.
     
  12. david_henderson

    david_henderson www.photography001.com

    Diego. Think I owe you an apology. From what I can now see 100F was, as you said, launched before the discontinuation of Velvia 50 was announced, and indeed all the Fuji slide emulsions had a 100F version in the range at that point. Velvia 100 was initially launched in Japan and may indeed have been spread outside to N America/Europe approximately coincidentally with the announcement of Velvia 50s discontinution- it was certainly available whilst the original 50 was still being sold because I recall using some on a trip to Mexico in late 2005. So it looks like there was no formal replacement for Velvia 50 announced, with Fuji hoping that between Velvia 100F and Velvia 100 they had their bases covered. Clearly that worked out less well than they'd hoped.
     
  13. Although I certainly won't be missing Velvia 100f either, it is troubling to see, coming from a exclusive medium format slide shooter, the progression in price of Provia 100f 120 pro packs at B&H from 18.95 in March 2012 to 21.95 and then 25.95 today. (3.79->4.39->5.19 per roll + shipping) I guess that's the way things are going to go as demand continues to decline. I still don't want to admit defeat and move to a digital system as a primary, but I guess one day it's going to be inevitable.
     

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