Problem with pics developed at Wal-mart...part of image cut off

Help! I do digital scrapbooking (in adobe photoshop), and don't understand

why my pictures are being cut-off. I did the layout as a 5x7, 300 dpi, and it

cut off a portion of the pic....but when I did the same pic as a 4x6, 300 dpi,

it was fine. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for any suggestions

You're not being very clear about what you're doing - but have you taken into account that 4x6 and 5x7 are different aspect ratios (i.e. not the same shape)?

Sorry for not being clear...I'm new at this and not sure what info. to give. I guess I am specifically wanting to know what file size I need to save the pictures in so they don't get cut off. On the 4x6 photo, I saved the layout as 4x6, 300dpi, in photoshop, and it cut off a little on the top, but not much at all. So why didn't my 5x7 (that I saved as exactly 5x7in., 300 dpi) print right? I cut off on both the top and left side.

 

I read on another forum that some of the retailers inlarge the photo by 5%, then crop, but that doesn't make any sense to me either.

 

Thanks!

Most users of Fuji processing machines (including WalMart and Walgreens) seem to size their image files to 302 dpi, which lets them print at 300 dpi and, yes, cut off part of the image. They do that to allow them to easily easily borderless prints.

 

It's a good idea, especially with the discounter labs, to order a series of test prints at every size you intend to order later. That way you can tell how much of your image is really going to be cut off. It's also a good idea to upload a bigger image; instead of using PS to try to exactly size a 4x6 etc., just send the full size image, cropped to the appropriate ratio, and leave a bit of "air" around it. They're going to resize it anyway.

 

If you want total control of the dimensions of the image, or if you don't want to have any part of your image cut off, you're going to have to put a border around it.

"Most users of Fuji processing machines (including WalMart and Walgreens) seem to size their image files to 302 dpi, which lets them print at 300 dpi and, yes, cut off part of the image."

 

Unless I'm mistaken, printing at 302 dpi instead of 300 would reduce the size of the image, relative to the paper; maybe they print at 298 dpi?

 

"So why didn't my 5x7 (that I saved as exactly 5x7in., 300 dpi) print right? I cut off on both the top and left side."

 

Here's a pure guess: the trimmer's not aligned very well on that machine with the 5" paper roll, whereas the other machine with the 4" roll (or 6" roll) is rather better set up.

OK...thanks for the info...but I have another question. You wrote "just send the full size image, cropped to the appropriate ratio, and leave a bit of "air" around it. They're going to resize it anyway."

....what is the appropriate ratio? and how much "air" should I leave?

I had a different problem with these low budget places. Back on Easter, I took some shots, then had them developed at Walgreens. They had always done good work, but they trashed the entire roll.

 

Back on Saturday, I took 2 rolls at a family reunion and took them to a local CVS. Once again, they had always done good work. This time, they trashed 16 frames on one of the rolls. They literally tore the negative strip apart. It serves me right, I should have taken important shots to a pro lab.

 

So it seems that quality of equipment is not the only determining factor in what kind of service you get from these places. The skill, experience and dedication of the staff also count.

A 4 x 6 image has an aspect ratio of 1:1.5. A 5 x 7 is 1:1.4.

 

To enlarge a 4 x 6 image to fill a 5 x 7 print, it must be enlarged to 5 x 7.5. So, you're going to lose 1/2 inch from one end (landscape mode) or the other, or 1/4 inch from both sides.

 

The only way to lose no image would be to enlarge to 4 2/3 x 7. In that case, you'd have a 1/6 inch border at the top and bottom, but none on the ends.

 

Paul Noble

The minilabs all crop the scans. I usually add a 5% white border (calculated in number of pixels) on all sides of my images to allow for this. That occasionally creates a thin border on the print, but that's better than cropping details I want included. You'll get good at this technique after a few experiments. Stick with the same lab and it should be a simple process.

For a 4x6 photo printed at 300 dpi, the file image would have to be 1200 x 1800 pixels.<P>

 

For a 5x7 photo printed at 300 dpi, the file image would have to be 1500 x 2100 pixels.<P>

 

Saving an image at 300 dpi means nothing. DPI is a print command used during printing. I can show you two identical photos, one saved at 1000 dpi and the other saved at 0 dpi:<P>

 

<center><img src=http://www.geocities.com/dainisjg/0dpi.jpg><BR>

O DPI<P>

 

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/dainisjg/01000dpi.jpg>

<BR>1000 DPI</center><P>

 

Both are 350 x 260 pixels and 19KB.

James, you're corrent that DPI means nothing, but that's not the problem here. Regardless of file size, the minilab printer will crop the image. I believe they do this to be certain that the automatic scanning equipment doesn't accidentally print any of the black 35mm frame. Greater pixel density will produce more detail in the print (up to a point), but it won't stop the lab from cropping.

The software that interfaces with the Frontier does indeed enlarge the image during processing. Many of the templates that are used are generally set to a resolution of approx. 302-305 dpi in order to create bleed and avoid white edges. Much of what is responsible for this is the PIC software that is used to control the Frontier and the printing process. The issue is not as simple as just changing the dpi of the image file itself. During the process, the customers image file is re-rendered and put into a format (proprietary RAW) that can be read and printed by the Frontier. The resolution (dpi) is changed in a template text file that renders the image slightly larger than the designated paper or printing area. That's it in a nutshell. I hope that makes some sense. If you are printing to a borderless print then this issues is pretty much unavoidable. If you want to see your image without any cropping then you would be better off printing to a bordered template with the 'no crop' option checked if possible. Or, create your image file with a border.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

Jack L. said..."I usually add a 5% white border (calculated in number of pixels) on all sides of my images to allow for this."

I think this would be the best option for me. But, I hate to sound stupid, but how do I do this? And, when I open a new document in photoshop for my layout, what size -- exactly, do I make it for a 5 x7?

Nic,

 

 

To add a white border, make sure the "backgound" color is set to white (the small black and white squares toward the bottom of the tools palette in Photoshop/Photoshop Elements).

 

Resize the image to the print size you want at 300 ppi (which would be 1500x2100 for a 5x7 inch print).

 

To create a white border, go to Image > Canvas Size (or Image > Resize > Canvas Size). You can resize in several measurement ways, three of which are percent, pixels, and inches. Pick your measurement and enter the numeric values you want.

 

Jim

Jim Doty wrote:

 

>Resize the image to the print size you want at 300 ppi (which would be 1500x2100 for a 5x7 inch print). To create a white border, go to Image > Canvas Size (or Image > Resize > Canvas Size).

 

Jim & Nic - I use the Canvas Size operation to create a border, but I never resize the image (except to crop for content or to crop to an exact 3:2 ratio from film scans). The lab doesn't care if the file is 640 x 480 or 6000 x 4000, they simply print it onto the size paper you pay for and "throw away" any extra resolution. You probably don't want to give them a file that's smaller than the equivalent of 300 dpi at the size you're printing, but my files are always much larger than that. I just set my film scanner at max (about 3800 x 2500) and that's what I give them.

"The software that interfaces with the Frontier does indeed enlarge the image during processing. Many of the templates that are used are generally set to a resolution of approx. 302-305 dpi in order to create bleed and avoid white edges."

 

If your target resolution was 300dpi and you wanted to avoid white edges, you'd need to set the print resolution to something like 298 dpi. Printing at a *higher* resolution than 300dpi will guarantee you white edges.

"The software that interfaces with the Frontier does indeed enlarge the image during processing. Many of the templates that are used are generally set to a resolution of approx. 302-305 dpi in order to create bleed and avoid white edges."

 

If your target resolution was 300dpi and you wanted to avoid white edges, you'd need to set the print resolution to something like 298 dpi. Printing at a *higher* resolution than 300dpi will guarantee you white edges.

 

This is why I state that the issue is not as simple as changing the resolution. The factor that is attached to the template text file in a PIC (PRO) \ Frontier system looks at this filed as a magnification factor during rendering. Setting the text file at any number higher than 300 acts to increase the image size. I tried to be a bit clearer about this but it is proprietary concept that is not all that easy to explain. If you own or have access to a PIC \ Frontier system, check out the template text files and you will see what I mean.

I've heard that you can use 200 ppi images for these lightjet printers, especially at these smaller photo sizes. I'm not sure why they are being cut off, but besides the file size and resolution, make sure that your height-to-width ratios are correct (for example, a 4x6 at 200 ppi should be 800x1200 pixels). If they're not, then the machine has two choices: either cut off part of the image or give you the whole image with white space on one or more sides.

 

You can also try asking them what's wrong, and what optimum file / image size they recommend. Finally, you can also try one of the online photo processors such as Shutterfly; they only do photos and I've found them to be more consistent.

 

Best, David.

If this is what I think you are describing, it is a general feature of borderless printing. To avoid misalignment problems, borderless printing always enlarges the image slightly so that it overlaps the paper. This is very rarely a problem when printing photos (I myself have printed many tens of thousands and no-one has remarked on except in the very rare case when the image being printed was not a photo but a geometric graphic design with lines parallel to print edges).

 

The other issue is that the stated print sizes are not always exact. For example 7x5" may actually be 7.2x5". Generally it will be the short axis of 6x4, the long axis of 7x5 and the long axis of 8/9x6 that is out as the paper comes in rolls exactly 6" or 5" wide.

Somebody (Qimage?) should develop a Frontier-proof print-prep method

that clones the edges of the image 5% outward.