POLE... Should I stay or should I go now?

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by rj russell, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. This is going to be another fullframe vs. crop pole, with the emphasis that many have started out where I have and
    question the same things, also many of you have already made your move and can advice from both sides of the
    fence.

    Basically 1.5 years I entered the DSLR world with an XTi bundled with the 18-55kit and a 75-300 lens. Since then I
    spent a great deal of time reading about and practising photography and have added a 50 f1.4 for portraits and a
    Sigma 10-20 for fun and drama! I am a hobby photographer and match the craft to my lifestyle which includes hiking,
    backpacking and basically all forms of out door travel. Landscapes are my pasion and I do love shooting in lowlight.
    I also do a great deal of family and party shots.

    Now the catch is... The 5D sounds about right for me but at a tremendous cost, 2600 for 5D & 24-105L. This would
    give the good wide to tele zoom I crave and my portrait lens would now be a fast normal, and I would have to save yet
    again to get back into my beloved ultrawides.

    On the other hand be a strictly hobby photographer I could continue with crop sensors and forget about FF. In this
    case I would go out and buy the 17-55 asap (I am desperate to replace the kit with a quality lens of similar focal
    range), having a fairly good system that would keep me shooting for now and eventually move up to 40 or 50D
    adding maybe the sigma 30 f1.4, a 70-200 and perhaps a macro lens.

    So what do you all believe the future holds? Is it wise to invest in more crop body lenses? will crop sensors
    compete with FF in low light and image quality in the future? What paths have you taken and why?

    Cheers,

    Ryan
     
  2. If you got the cash, buy the best toys you can afford. And, if low light is your thang, FF is king. Why furt around? Enjoy life
    now. A 5D II is much cheaper than a gambling spree, drug habit, GF or new motorcycle. Hell, it almost free compared to those sorts of
    things.
     
  3. Ryan, only you can answer some of the questions you pose.

    One thing to keep in mind, though, is that full-frame DSLRs like the 5D expose any softness or other flaws a lens might exhibit, particularly out near the corners of the frame, the part which is cropped out on 1.6X cameras.

    Therefore, depending on your expectations, getting satisfactory results from a 5D might be more costly than you think if it requires lens upgrades.
     
  4. There is a flip side to everything. 5D is slower ( 3-4 fps, no pop up flash or sensor cleaner ).

    A few things to consider. Have you tried a 5D? Its nice and all but really the little extra width will not make you become a
    better photographer but yes the 5D 24-105 combo is a nice one. I have that lens on a 40D and its just not quite the same
    but still its very good.

    I was considering the same move but decided to just ad a 10-22 to the mix which by the way is my first EF-S lens. The
    best part of the crop body format is price. I don't mind taking my 40D on say a boat or where ever since replacement is
    not nearly as expensive as a 5D. I think for that reason and the speed I would never part with my 40D. I would just ad a
    5D to my setup.

    Few options.

    1. wait a bit longer, the 5D price is sure to drop when the 5D2 is out.

    2. ( what I did ) Use only EF lenses and get a used or less expensive ultra wide so your not putting a lot of money into
    the crop format.
     
  5. There is nothing wrong with the 5D Mark I. It still takes pictures which beat the hell out of most cameras in IQ.
    I would say go for Mark II but if you can't, go for original 5D.
     
  6. Ryan, my tastes have generally been along the lines of wide angle photography, so my 5D has been a godsend. If you like wide photography, you'll have a lot more attractive lens options with FF. The opposite is true if you are into extreme telephoto work. When I consider the extraordinary costs of good glass in long focal lengths, I can only conclude that I'm not interested enough in extreme tele work to justify the cost -- not even close. However, with a crop body, all lenses get a lot "longer" for not an extra penny spent.

    There are also differences in sensitivity in noise (better for FF cameras), but I think lens options have been the big driving force for me.

    Another vote for the original 5D. I love mine. :)
     
  7. As far as what does the future hold? I've got two1.6 bodies and two 1DMIIN's 1.3 bodies and they will be the last crop bodies that i purchase. I will simply use these until they absolutly die then i will move on to the FF overings at that time. With the exception of one lens, all my lens purchasas have been full frame lenses. I belive that the crop bodies will eventually fade out over the next 5 years or so. Regardless of your decision, you should have a decent body that offers controls without having to flip through menues. The origional 5D has become a classic that continues to produce some of the nicest images to date. I would bet that it will be the longest withstanding body yet produced by canon. I would think the best decision for you at this point in your investments would be the 5DMII for it is sure to be a long life and liked camera.
     
  8. Very nice, the opinions are rolling now!

    Very nice analogy Puppy Face.
    Brent- you bring up a good argument againts FF which I never would have thought of.
    Tommy- thanks for sharing your ideas although speed would not hold me back, I have a 430ex (forgot to mention) and dont like popups. As far as lenses though, if I were to stick with a crop I would have to have a good EF-S lens such as the 17-55 f2.8 since 24mm a long way from 17mm on a crop body, creating to many lens changes for my liking.
    Zafar- My thoughts exactly, on the original 5D plus it comes with the 24-105L for the price of the 5D MKII!
    Sarah- I love your rub it my face style! Such a tease!

    Still I wonder how much quality is there in the FF sensors and how long of a future will they have? There seem to be a lot more small ones out there.

    Cheers, RY
     
  9. Michael, you slipped one in before my last post! Interest lifespan on crop sensors, I would have thought they would surpass the FF based on the fact that everything is eventually built better in a smaller package. Thankyou!

    4:1 for FF, not sure what to classify Brents comment as?
     
  10. For the sake of the pole...

    I currently shoot with an XTi but have borrowed a friend's 5D + 24-105 L IS kit on multiple occasions (a few events, small weddings, parties, etc) and am convinced I will be upgrading! In fact, if there were no news about the 5D2 coming out soon then I would likely have already purchased the 5D.

    If you love landscape and low light then FF is the way to go, no question. Plus you'll enjoy the lower noise levels as compared to your XTi. The kit you referred to plus your 50mm 1.4 will be a great combo for a long time.

    It's true you will be lugging a heavier kit around (maybe not great for backpacking) and you will lose the option of a pop up flash (which seldom produces great results anyway) but overall I think you'd really prefer the 5D.

    Do you know anyone that would let you borrow theirs for awhile? (It would have to be a good friend, of course) That made all the difference for me as far as really getting hands on experience to help me make my decision. So much better than sitting in the store! If you know someone but they're reluctant to let you borrow it you might offer to take some portraits of them and their family (with their 5D, of course). Who knows, they might appreciate having some shots of them for the holidays...
     
  11. With all due respect Ryan, this sounds like you have some pre-Christmas buying itch. What you say points in all sorts of directions, but by no means makes you a definitive 5d candidate.

    >lifestyle which includes hiking, backpacking and basically all forms of out door travel.
    Check the weight of your setup now and the weight of your ideal 5d setup - are you willing to lug the difference around? Plus, as Tommy pointed out, willing to run the risk of ruining your 5D on your travels?

    > Landscapes are my pasion and I do love shooting in lowlight. I also do a great deal of family and party shots.
    Ergo, you shoot sort of everything, right. The 5D is hardly handy for party or family pictures. And a neccessity for none of these subjects.

    >This would give the good wide to tele zoom I crave
    How would it? With the 5D tele will be much more difficult, i.e. pricey to attain. On the other hand, there are so many UWA options for crop, that you hardly need a FF cam to achieve that.

    >will crop sensors compete with FF in low light and image quality in the future?
    Don't they already? (Aaah, pure heresy, let the blood-bath commence...) Do yourself a favour and head over to

    http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/184|0/(appareil2)/176|0/(appareil3)/202|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Canon/(brand2)/Canon/(brand3)/Nikon

    and look at the comparison between the 400D, the 5D and the D90.
    Ignore the overview only, but concentrate on the sub-tabs. Do use the PRINT, not the screen button in the upper left corner. This will show you differences between these cameras based on an 8" by 12" print, because a specific print size is what you will be lookng to make. Peering at 100% pixel level is not an end in itsself. Look at the differences, substitute a 50D for your 400D if you wish (you'll be surprised at the lack of a tangible quality difference). You'll be cured of your 5D itch, if you are willing to be cured. Now, go henceforth, hike and take beautiful pictures. ;-)

    P.S. I kept looking for that POLE, but it never showed up ...
     
  12. IMO... Stick with what you have and treat yourself to a trip, someplace to go shoot some landscapes.

    Many folks look at FF cameras (and the 5D in particular) as the solution for landscape photography. But - there is no advantage to high iso in landscape photography, a tripod works better. Also, landscapes are often shot with maximum dof, and there's no practical difference in dof and fov between a 10 mm lens at f/11 on APSC versus a 16 mm lens at f/16 on full-frame.

    The real advantage of FF cameras is for wedding photography, portraiture and flash photography. This is where you want high iso performance, and shallow dof at wider fov.

    I'm a landscape/travel photographer myself, XTi plus S10-20, just got back from a 2 week trip, planning another week before xmas, got a 6 week trip lined up for spring next year.
     
  13. OR...add the 18-200 to your lens collection, it has fantastic length and width, and you can take advantage of the reach (320
    mm FF equivalent) and the width (about 28 mm FF equivalent). I use it on the 40D and the xti, and this lens is great with
    both of them...
     
  14. I think I read a comparison on the 20D and 5D on Bob Atkins site, you should check it out. I think he came to the conclusion that the difference isn't that big if using kit type lenses. To buy the 5D and some L lenses to replace all the lenses you have would be a BIG investment. You probably wouldn't get that much for the gear you already have. Do you have the non-IS 75-300 lens? If you upgraded that to a 70-200L I think you would see a bigger difference than using the 75-300 on a 5D. Others may suggest otherwise. Maybe upgrade your lenses first, and if you are still unhappy then change to 5D?
     
  15. S. Henderik- a.k.a Judge of Definitive 5D candidate.

    Its nice to see a good fight for the crop side, However my itch comes from the ongoing itch to achieve greater quality. My direction(sorry to mislead) is that my pasion does lie within landscapes and low light photography. The fact that inbetween my passions I also take many family and party shots only supports my need for a realtivly fast normal or moderate wide to tele (i.e. 17-55 or 24-105). I have no desire to own any long tele's, their just not my style.

    Perhaps there is some risk involved related to my "lifestyle"!?! Yet with all risks come precautions. Furthermore I believe that a good camera system is a necessity regardless of weather or not it happens to be a 5D. Wieght and size are very valid arguments between my options.

    Thanks for the link, one may hesitate to trade up for a 40D or 50D but the 5D looks promising.



    Arie-

    I appreciate your naturalist aproach which I find very grounding!
    Recently I moved away from the canadian rockies and havent visited to many nice landscapes since! My mindset has been to build my system and then travel but just thinking about the travel and the memories seems to present a new overwhelming "itch" to view some more of the world!


    By the way, I was hoping to see some of your travel photo's and was shocked to find that you have not posted any!

    Happy Travels,
    Ryan
     
  16. Pole is something you fish with, and something you....never mind. But I've never purchased a 1.6x lens because I used
    (use) film cameras before digital, and no part of common sense would allow me to buy a lens I couldn't use on all bodies....
     
  17. hmmm... intersting things come to mind to get photo's in hard to reach areas!
     
  18. Ryan - some of my photos are here.
    As for 17-55/2.8 IS. Some folks who have this lens say it's so good that it's the key reason they won't switch to FF.
     
  19. Since I have both a crop and a ff (5D & 50D), were it me, I'd pack the crop for hiking. The most important
    thing for landscape photography is being in the landscape... go someplace with a great view and shoot! And
    yes, buying L lenses can put a real crimp in your shrimp and champagne budget! Oh yes, and given the
    season upcoming, the pole could only be North, with reindeer, a sleigh, and a jolly old elf!
     
  20. I'm with WT.....pole? Like as in a guy from Poland?
     
  21. Very nice photo's Arie, I am envious of your travels and life in BC! I just moved from Kelowna to Onterible.

    I see you are a big user of Tamrons 17-50 f2.8, it looks like a very nice lens and I entertained that also as a bang for the buck standard zoom.
     
  22. POLE - you know the Festivus kind

    You dance around the two options and choose in Seinfeld tradition
     
  23. it

    it

    Depends what you shoot. A friend of mine is a senior photographer with Reuters and was head of the paddling sports at the Beijing Olympics. He could have any camera he wants, but uses the crop versions, as do a huge number of his colleagues.
     
  24. Hi Ryan,

    If the price of a 5D + 24-105 kit is a bit of a stretch, how about buying used? I think you could make your dollars go a bit farther. There are going to be a lot of upgraders to the 5D2, judging from all the salivating that's been going on. Many will be letting go of some fine 5Ds with low mileage, I'm sure.

    Of course, the kit is a pretty sweet deal. A $1000+ lens makes it about $1600 for a brand new 5D, with full warranty and such.
     
  25. Ryan, I own the 5D. It is a terrific camera to work with! I also purchased the 24-70 f2.8 L lens. This lens is a great portrait lens but I think it produces a soft landscape image. So I wonder if the 24-105 L would produce a similiar landscape image? Although I do not own this lens, I would consider the purchase of the 16-35 f2.8 L. Notice I am not scrimping on quality. You will not be dissapointed by purchasing quality gear! The 5D is a great full frame camera. You could compromise a bit and purchase the older body and then get the best lenses you can afford. You could visit a local camera store and rent what you are considering purchasing. That way you can try before you buy. Good Luck!
     
  26. Why : Must people ask should I or Should I not : , only because They have fallen for all that Hype by camera company: Good Camera god should I or should I not : If you can not answer that question then forget it and continue use-ing what you have !
     
  27. I have both full frame and crop bodies. Generally the full frame is for landscapes and the crop body is for sports, although I do use both for both. I HAD to get full frame for my 14mm lens and HAD to upgrade my crop body for my 400/2.8. I use both bodies for all the lenses in between!


    I use only prime lenses so the idea of buying a full frame body just to put a 24-105 on it is foreign to me. Opinions of this particular lens have come down to earth over the past year. The newest lens always does TEND to be the best! I like Bruce's idea of the 16-35, and it is too bad you bought the Sigma 10-22 instead of the 12-24 which would have worked on either format. The 17-55/2.8 IS really is just another kit lens that is a little faster with an expensive IS option. So be careful what you are looking at to increase your image quality. Build a set of acceptable zooms and add some exceptional
    primes for the extra punch when you want it. If you are serious about going full frame at some point, then I suggest that you do not purchase more crop body lenses until you know for sure.


    Don't pay any attention to those who say only L glass can go on a full frame. Some L glass is poor, some is superb, and some non-L glass is superb, and some is poor. While a crop body might be kinder to poor glass you can still see the difference between poor glass and superb glass on a crop body, so not really any different than a full frame body.
     
  28. Trial by rental... thats thinking!
    Lauren- I believe I gave you something to comment about, thanks for stopping by.
    John- I think I would like the oportunity to play with your gear! Had I haave known about the 12-24 I would have but in the meatime 10 is fun. I am stunned at your comments towards the 17-55, expensive yes but f2.8 on that range with IS and the apparent killer optics, how could you classify it as just another kit? Anyways thanks for sharing your in depth experiance with bodies and lenses.

    Cheers, Ryan
     
  29. Ryan, you say, “I am a hobby photographer and match the craft to my lifestyle which includes hiking, backpacking and basically all forms of out door travel. Landscapes are my pasion and I do love shooting in lowlight.” Zoom lenses might not result in the same quality of photograph; but, one zoom can be used in place of two or more prime lenses and weigh a lot less than the primes that it takes the place of, not a small consideration when hiking and backpacking. As for low light, you would need either a tripod or an IS lens. Each has its advantage. If an IS lens is used, a tripod might mean one less thing to take with you. One the other hand, a tripod would afford a shutter speed even lower than capable with an IS lens. One person stated that he uses only prime lenses. He doesn’t say how far he carries them. I personally like the flexibility and less weight that my IS zooms give me with my 20D. I have a tripod which I use, but not when I am hiking.
     
  30. I've got a 40D and a 5D and I love them both but if I were being held up, I would throw the 40D at the perpetrator. While they were recovering their senses I would hide the 5D while looking for something else to throw. This has nothing to do with price, they're both insured.
     
  31. POLE? - ah, - poll!

    I have the Canon 5D and before that the 300D. For most uses the current crop factor cameras will give results which
    are indistinguishable from those of the full frame camera. For long distance shots such as wildlife the crop factor
    camera may have the advantage.

    In short the main difference for most amateur purposes will be price and size.
     
  32. I am getting so tempted by the same dilemma - the prices of second-hand 5DMkI are already slowly falling in the UK.

    I agree with Brent that a crop sensor does not pick up the edge issues of a lens that a FF exposes, but only if you use EF lenses. The EF-S series is designed for the crop sensor so if you buy the 17-55 IS you will see those edge issues coming back into play.
    I have just bought the 17-40L for my 30D and chose this instead of the 17-55 for several reasons: it is several ounces lighter so I am more likely to carry it around; consistent quality from f4 up (according to reviews) whereas the 17-55 is quite usable at f2.8 but hits its stride at f4; do you really need IS at 17mm focal length?; the IS is overtaken but the fact that instead of taking a tripod I can take a monopod as an effective support (some come in at less than a pound in weight). For the price of the 17-55 you could get the 17-40L plus most of the the Sigma (me - I bought the 17-40 plus the 50 f1.8 for well under the cost of the 17-55 as 17mm is as wide as I am interested in at the moment). Whether I made the right choice, time will tell.....

    Advantages of the 5D? Extra width: but this does not seem to be an issue as you are happy to get the 24mm zoom which is not significantly wider than the 17mm zoom. High-ISO performance of the 5D may be better than the 50D (needs checking). And I think stitching panoramas could be easier as you will need fewer shots to cover the scene.
    And as has been said, moving to the 5D for picture quality reasons only makes sense if you are willing to spend a lor of money getting significantly better glass.
    And the weight...

    Everytime my urge for a 5D comes up I look through the photography magazines and see how many shots are actually taken with a crop sensor. And I enjoy looking at this site:
    http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/index.htm
    And most of his shots are taken with 350D/20D but he uses very high quality glass - would you be disappointed with those shots?
    Every time I look at magazines or galleries I realise that picture quality really is not an issue for me - I still have a long way to go before the sensor is the limiting factor.

    To me, your question seems more about 'what if' rather than 'I need' which makes me wonder exactly what it is the XTi is not giving you....?
     
  33. les

    les

    As Puppy says...no more to say. What, you want to die rich ? Or have your monies lost in a bank going bust ?
     
  34. Geesus dude, check your spelling - you want everyone to think Canucks are ill-iterrate or sumthing?

    let's see here; you shoot

    out door (sic) low light travel family landscapes party shots, right?

    Devil's Advocate Advice:

    you don't need FF, you need a superzoom S series: Get an S10, take the money you save, and go traveling.

    Feeding your immediate jones advice:

    If you're in the GTA, go to Vistek and rent the lenses and body you're considering for a weekend;
    Make a choice, then buy used online from here or other reputable forums.
    Lots of GTA cameraslutz sell gear on the other forum with the reversed font color.

    If you shoot low light with the 24-105, prepare to deal with noise, regardless of body: I use it on a 1.6 body
    for a lot of ambient lit club and recording studio work; it's a bear getting sharp shots of playing musicians.
    17-55 IS is much better low light lens. (and it's way better than any kit lens; trust me, I've tried 'em all)

    If you have steady hands and don't mind giving up the wide end, skip the IS & get a 24-70 or 28-70 2.8 for the
    better optics.

    Oh, and get yourself to Algonquin Park sometime; closest you're gonna be to that Okanagan outdoors experience in
    Southern Ontario.

    Best of luck!
     
  35. Decisiveness is the key. When you put a normal lens on the small-sensor body you are wasting 60% of the image area
    (based on squaring the 1.6 linear crop factor), at least that much of the glass, and an even greater fraction of the artistry
    and cleverness in the lens design (the edges are the difficult bit). To me, that's a sub-optimal, short-term solution.

    The larger sensor allows for a lot more artistic leeway, but if the small sensor does what you want, just get lenses
    designed for it.

    I have a 5D and a 350D. I paid very little for the 350D, and I keep an inexpensive lens on it. It's the light camera that I
    can cheerfully write off if it gets damaged or stolen.
     
  36. Several years ago, I was reading how one should not invest in S lens for crop cameras as one they would go the way of the dinosaurs. Keep the crop and invest in good lens. I have both, crop 1.6, 1.3, and full frame. They all have their uses. I bought the 5D only because of low light events where no flash permitted.
     
  37. Ryan, I guess you know that if you go it will be trouble, and if you stay it will be double.... :eek:)
    (RIP Joe Strummer!)

    Three years ago I was on a shoot with a friend who had just bought a 5D. I compared his results with those from my
    10D, and the improvement in image quality and detail from the FF sensor was striking. Just the other week I did a
    similar comparison, and although the difference has narrowed because I am now on a 450D, I can tell you it is still
    noticable. Personally, I could make use of that difference. YMMV.

    The reasons I held off buying a 5D were partly because of the cost, partly because of the vain hope that Canon might
    actually introduce a really decent "standard" prime for 1.6 crop (fat chance!), and partly because of the lack of
    sensor cleaner (I found this to be a pain in my 10D days). But looking back, it often crosses my mind that I should
    have made the move to a 5D a while ago.

    So FWIW, I agree with Puppy. If you have the money, go for it. You only live once....
     
  38. I feel offended as a Pole ;) I think this forum lacks some options, like editing :) POLL
     
  39. "Pole"

    I thought that perhaps you were contemplating a trip to Antarctica, now that summer is almost there.

    Get the 5D or 5D II. As Puppy Face said, it is a lot less expensive (and far less dangerous!) than motorcyles, girlfriends, etc.

    --Lannie
     
  40. I was waiting for the 5d2 for (what seems like) years but after thinking about what I was going to have to do with those 21MP files I was tempted by a 2nd hand 5d1. Then, eventually I decided to go for a 2nd had 1d mk2. The 1.3 crop is less painful than the 1.6, makes my 35mm 1.4L a great standard lens, the viewfinder's bigger and brighter and the 45 focus points and 8.5fps are a massive bonus. Also, it handles like an absolute dream. Coming from a 20d (same MP) its been a great move so far, loving it.
    And it cost less than a new 50d. Used 5d1s are going to be < £500 shortly so I still may go for one (and still have £700+ left from what I'd saved for a 5d2) although I fear I'm a bit enamoured by the 1d form factor now....
     
  41. One other consideration: what size will you be printing the picture?
    8"x10" - I don't think you will see the difference at normal viewing distances
    10"x16" - my guess is you would have to know what you were looking for to see them

    And don'tforget - seeing a pictuer in isolation is quite differet to closely comparing two pictures side by side.

    Unforunately I am one of those who has thought at the back of my mind "but maybe it could haqve been even better" irrespctive of what I think the finished article looks like. And what bugs me is I know that this is what the marketing men play on...
     
  42. Its great to see so many posts and opinions generated from this POLL....

    Dzien dobre Lukasz, I apologize for my dirty old canuck spelling and will be recommending a spellcheck option within photo.net!

    I think that the best option would be to rob a bank and have it all or perhaps see a psychiatrist for help concering the indecisiveness and anxiety that goes hand and and with building ones dslr system.

    Or perhaps a trip to the north or south POLE would be enough to clear my head?

    James- what is this other forum with the backwards opening door?

    Cheers All,

    Ryan
     
  43. I'm sort of glad PN does not have polls. Too many silly questions can be generated.

    I took a look at Canon's website and you know, the 5D2 looks pretty good.

    If I had money (and the need for it) I'd go with that one.
     
  44. Ryan - no need to apologise at all, I am not offended really, it is a normal type-o :) Even spell checker would not notice, as "pole" is an existing word as well as "pole" :)

    BTW I have similar problem to yours, but am going for 40D due to the budget limitations.
     
  45. I did some research into glaucoma and one of the physicians told me the joke about the Pole who goes to the optometrist for a check-up. The optometrist tells him to read the bottom line of the chart to which the Pole replies "read it? I know him".
     
  46. If you are looking for a single lens that will cover the 24-105mm f/4 full frame range of the Canon lens you mentioned, have you considered a Sigma Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 on your existing body? This works out to 27-112mm on a 1.6x crop body. It would also allow you to get some other toys sooner... like a 70-200mm or a 100-400mm. The Sigma lens has received some great reviews.
     
  47. Ryan, you might be surprised at how little difference there is in image quality between a full frame and a crop body, or between an XTi and a 50D. That's not to say that you should not buy a 5D. I have a friend who is very pleased with his 5D after selling his 20D. He uses the 5D with fast, wide primes and enjoys the additional weight of his new camera and lenses.

    However, I have tack sharp 14x21-inch prints (which is about as big as my printer can handle) that I made from shots taken with my 20D, a camera that now feels so comfortable and familiar to me that I feel no immediate need to change it.

    You need to find the right tool for you, which might be either your XTi, a 5D or something else, then get to know it intimately.
     
  48. I have an XTi. I first held a 5D in 2006, and was sold on it from that moment. I was preparing to splash out on one this year, but then came the 5D2, now there's no turning back... I use my 17-40L on my film SLR occasionally and the vista is just amazing! The viewfinder (5D1) was like a 50-inch plasma vs. my 400D's viewfinder. Plenty of MP to play with if need be, great performance at high ISO (and my 400D is not bad at all in that department), sturdy build.
    <p>For me, it's 5D2 or bust! ;-)
     
  49. I thought this was about the North Pole. I'd say go now before it melts thanks to global warming. An take yr brand new 5D with ya!
     
  50. The blokes that suggest that the pros were shooting crop cameras in Bejiing are absolutly right!

    In the "Cube" the only cameras that I saw were IDM3s, an APC-H crop camera.

    40D? 50D? Forget about it. Any of the EFS lenes are minor league compared to the L lens line. Keep dreaming guys.

    Swim Fast!
     
  51. Photography is about vision and communication; not gear.

    I use a crop cam for wide angle. And an XSi at that. Works great...
     
  52. >> Is it wise to invest in more crop body lenses?

    I am not the one to tell if this is wise or not as I don’t consider myself to be a very wise man (my wife suffers a lot because of that) but that is exactly what I did. I bought a 10-22 and 17-55 and these lenses are so good that I have decided that whatever my next body will be, it will be an addition to the EF-S body, not a replacement.

    Now I think about the 60....

    Happy shooting,
    Yakim.
     
  53. Two questions come to mind. Are you planning on making very large prints and do you work in low light - hand held? I personally waited to go digital until FF came out and went with the 5D/24-105L IS. This kit has fit my working style perfectly. Great detail and virtually no noise for longer exposures.
     
  54. Vote: Used Low Mileage 5Dmk1

    Considering that you don't feel you will do much telephoto work I would vote FF. However you do seem to be concerned about cost, so I think that the 5dmk1 would be a better solution for you, it will suit your wide angle and low light needs well, and if you shoot raw there is no reason you cant print quite large at 12megapixels. Like others have said these will be going pretty cheap as many 5d users will upgrade to the new body. Take all that saved money and buy a nice fast L for your low light and make use of that FF.
     
  55. "I could continue with crop sensors and forget about FF."

    From your writing, I suspect you know you are not going to "forget about FF". I suspect it will bug you, and bug
    you.......and one day you'll say "Hey, I'm not thinking of it, maybe it's best I did not do it...." And then the next day
    you'll be dreaming of it again! You'll be trying to put it out of your mind until you do it.

    Now, only you can say if while you are reading the above you see yourself thinking like this. And if the above does
    resonate with you then you might as well just do it now, you will sooner or later anyway. Life is way too short to put
    off what you are going to do anyway.

    When I went digital I went full frame from the get-go, knowing that I was going to be very hard to please. With money
    I've saved from film and prints alone I have paid for it. I'm very glad I did it that way.
     
  56. Late to the game myself... get a FF DSLR ASAP! Me too.
     
  57. LOL Armando, you have got me all figured out!
     

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