Pentax 645 or Kiev 88CM

<p>I've been curious about medium-format photography for a while. I think now's the time I got into it a little bit.<br>

The options I'm considering are:<br>

* Pentax 645 - found a good deal on a kit locally. I already shoot Pentax (DSLR, 35mm) and love the brand. I could also use 645 lenses on my other Pentax cameras.<br>

* Kiev 88CM - I hear it's a good inexpensive way to get into medium-format. The camera is also made in the city where I grew up (and named after it) - so it draws me in a nostalgic kind of way.<br>

Anyone here have the chance to use both? Any feedback or suggestions for a MF newbie?</p>

<p>I love the whole concept of Kiev. Someday I will get one of the "Hasselbladski" Kievs modified to take P6 mount lenses, but this would be for fun, not for serious work. If something goes wrong when I shoot my current Pentacon 6TL, for example, I shrug it off and try to figure out how to fix it the next time.<br /> But I wouldn't shoot somebody's wedding on my Pentacon, and I think most people who use and love Kievs would probably agree. See, for example, the one of the best sources on Kievs, the Kievaholic Klub site (<a href="http://www.kievaholic.com/">link</a> ).</p>

<p>I haven't used a Pentax 645, but I have found old Pentax 35mm cameras to need a little more service, etc. than some other marques (nothing serious, but regular things like shutter speed adjustments). Whether there are similar issues with used 645, I know not.</p>

<p>I would definitely go with the Mamiya. The Kiev 88CM is a Hasselblad clone and though a nice looking camera, has a reputation for being poorly made and unreliable. There are also lots of problems with the backs as well apparently.</p>

<p>@Scott Murphy: The mechanical problems are notorious, but there's an ebay merchant selling the 88CM fixed and tested + modded with a Pentacon mount. The price is $300 and he has great feedback so it tempts me.<br>

What about the Pentax 645 system? Do the lenses and body still pale compared to the Mamiya offerings?</p>

<p>Pentax MF equipment is right up with other MF brands. The main drawback is the way the film back is inserted - you can't change midroll like you can with most others. I use a Pentax 645N and love it. The 645N is newer and mostly electronic, but the only problem I've had with mine was definitely user caused. The lenses are sweet. While I haven't tried them on my 35mm Pentax cameras, I'd like to someday. I just find myself shooting MF more. <br>

If you're used to recent Pentax 35mm, then the 645N might be set up a little more like you're used to. But being Pentax, I'd guess the 645 is easy to figure out, too, if you don't have a manual. I haven't used one, but have seen and held them. I like the 645N better for my hands. Totally a personal preference.</p>

 

<p>I would choose the P645 just for the 35mm lens alone ! I have a 645NII, simple, intuitive, no bigger than a full blown 35mm. Never failed on me even under severe conditions (40+ Deg C to -20). The SMCs are exceptionally good and will stand up to and most of the time better its competitors. In short, if you plan to do some serious work in the field, the P645 is the way to go. BTW I use my 645 lenses on the LX and K20D.</p>

<p>Pentax 645 all the way. Over the last 7 years the only time I have had to send mine in for service was after the camera took a very hard fall in Alaska. All the lenses are outstanding. Pentax has recently hinted at a digital version utilizing all previous lenses. Two other cameras you might want to concider in medium format are the Pentax 67II and the Fuji GA645ZI. There you have it, my three favorite cameras of all time: Pentax 645n, Pentax 67II, and the Fuji GA645ZI.</p>

<p>Perhaps not the original Pentax 645. The 645N has a much-improved finder and one of the best control set-ups I've found on an autofocus camera.</p>

<p>one more vote for Pentax 645. I have Hasselblad and Pentax, I like them both.</p>

<p>I like the Pentax 645. I haven't tried the Kiev. P645 lenses + 645 Adapter K with small format cameras has been enjoyable, too.</p>

<p>Andriy, throughout the Medium Format forum there is such a lot of material to read about the woes and pitfalls of those Iron Curtain cameras. I think the moderators should save server space and delete every question about "Shall I buy a Kiev", because soon or later there will be yet another new question: "Shall a buy a Kiev or a ... " from someone else who has not bothered to >>> <a href="../medium-format-photography-forum/00VMLO"><strong>Search</strong> </a> ?</p>

<p>I have a Pentax 645N and I love it (though it sees little use).<br>

I also have a Kiev 88CM/MLU (Arax branded, modified and upgraded) which I also like (sees little use, as well).</p>

<p>The former one is easier to use and offers many, many nice features (like focus confirmation with manual lenses and imprinting exposure data on the edge of the film). It is lighter and suitable -most of the time- for hand held use.</p>

<p>Kiev 88 CM/MLU offers 6x6 frames (if you choose so) and MLU (it really needs it). It usually requires a tripod for optimal use. You cannot simply rewind and shoot with it; you have tho remove a blank slide before shooting and insert it again after shooting, like a similar Hassy. I think, in a home-studio setting, a system containing a good Kiev 88CM/MLU (Arax or Hartblei branded) will be easier to buy than one with a Pentax 645N. As the lenses are also cheaper. (At least some of them are of comparable quality to Pentax lenses, optically).</p>

<p>Still, I believe they are different animals, so to speak.<br>

All cameras can develop failures and can need repairs; including those that are sold for more than USD 50.000.<br>

And, it is a lot cheaper to fix a cheaper camera.</p>

<p>My advice is this:<br>

Playing with a medium format camera is "fun" for an amateur no matter what brand he/she uses/can afford.<br>

If I had a connection with Kiev like you said you do, I would not hesitate to buy a "good" Kiev88CM/MLU from one of the established dealers.<br>

If you happen to end up with a 645N (or 645 or even 67, 6x7 or...) you will also get some pleasure from using it. No doubt about that...<br>

I wish you good luck :)</p>

<p><em>(Two little notes for those who may not know: Kiev cameras have almost always left the factory in less then optimum condition; that is why you have to buy from others who calibrate, upgrade and partially refurbish them. And, the factory has just been closed within last month; no more Kiev's are coming).</em></p>

<p>Thanks for all the feedback, folks!</p>

<p>If you do want a Kiev, the Kiev / Arax 60 is another, possibly cheaper option. The cameras are simpler than the 88 series, which means less to go wrong. However you do lose the interchangeable film backs. If you do go for the 88, go for the 88CM, which uses the Pentacon 6 mount (like the Kiev 60).</p>

<p>In the end, it may well boil down to which format you prefer - square or not, and local market pricing & availability vagaries.</p>

<p>I used to have P645 and loved it! It is simple as 35mm SLR camera with Av Tv M modes. There is lightmeter build inside. It's much much more reliable then you can get even from "pump-uped" Kiev of Arax. You wouldn't choose between Toyota and VAZ :) would you? If you can afford the P645N - go for it. Have one now I do love it. </p>

<p>I went with the Toyota :)</p>

<p>I have purchased a used Pentax 645 system with four lenses + 120/220 backs. The first digital scans should be coming back shortly.</p>