fotografz Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 This is the first of 3 parts discussing the artistic rather than the technical aspects of wedding photography. Please add to it, participate in making images to explore the notions, or whatever may help further an understanding of it. A few thoughts on COMPOSITION: Basically, there are two types of composition that we wedding photographers can employ: Composition we create, and Composition we �find�. When we pose the shots we can create the composition as we wish it to be. If we are shooting journalistically, we have to �find� the composition in what exists. (there are blurry lines here, but let�s keep it simple and focused) Composition means: the way parts are arranged to create the whole. In the case of photography, the �whole� is defined as what you see in the viewfinder. It is a finite space in which we must compose the parts. There are some basic rules of compositional design we can employ. These are good rules to keep in mind, as they are time tested and universally accepted as the foundation of natural order and beauty. Many of them are Greek in origin, and have a foundation in math and geometry. They didn�t invent it; they observed it in nature�s perfect proportions. Understanding the Golden Mean (Ratio) is as easy as Phi. Phi �the Golden Number� is the basis of a perfect division of a line. It�s a truly magical number. Some think this divisional ratio is 1/3rds �2/3rds, but that�s technically incorrect. Here�s how it works:<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 LOL !!!! Now that your head is swimming, just know that the mean (the lesser �C� divisional portion) is a little more than 1/3rd, and you can eyeball it with practice. (see the �Golden Rectangle� below). So what practical purpose does this have? Well, it�s a good place to put the horizon line in a photo for example. The Golden Rectangle: (It�s one of the Golden Rules) This one is a little easier to visually grasp. Basically is states that a smaller rectangle within a bigger one � is the same shape as the bigger one. It is arrived at by taking the short side of a rectangle (a) and forming a square � leaving a smaller rectangle (b) that�s the same shape as the whole rectangle. (see attachment below) Now how do we use this notion? Well, if you look at a lot of shots posted here, the subject is often placed dead center. I think this happens because that�s where the focus point is in the camera viewfinder. People achieve focus and don�t recompose. Or they don�t shift their focus point in the viewfinder. Or they don�t know any better. However, if you visualize the Golden Mean division in your viewfinder rectangle, you can place the subject on that dividing line and the composition will suddenly become more interesting and pleasing.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 The cool thing about the �Golden Rectangle� is that you can take that little rectangle and divide it again, and then do it again and again � because all of them are �Golden Rectangles�. It�s also the basis of Nature�s most beautiful shapes: (See attached "Spiral" below please) Now, does that Golden Mean spiral give you any ideas about more complex compositions? YOUR ASSIGNMENT, should you choose to accept it, is to deliberately and willfully apply the Golden Mean to a wedding image (or any other image) and post it here with how you did it.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 Here is one of my street photographs that demonstrates the Golden Mean in action. The awning forms the smaller rectangle, and the balance of the photo is roughly square. The awning is pretty close to the same shape as the whole photo. BTW, I just noticed some weirdness in the posts I did already. Ys are being added for no apparent reason. Nadine, didn't you experience some weirdness with your first posts also?<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 Now the weirdness has become "?"s. It's possessed : -) Someone doesn't like commas and quotation marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_rubenstein___nyc Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Marc - The introduction of the basic rules of composition is worthwhile. I think that you should have either left it at the rules of 1/3rd, or have been truly technically correct. A full explination of the Golden Ratio is given here: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html The Golden Ratio is an infinite series. And to quote from Wolfram, "In an apparent blatant misunderstanding of the difference between an exact quantity and an approximation, the character Robert Langdon in the novel The Da Vinci Code incorrectly defines the golden ratio as exactly 1.618 (Brown 2003, pp. 93-95)." Like I said, there is a reason why this is usually taught as the rule of thirds. Most of the people using the Golden Ratio (except for maybe architects) get lost in the actual math. Formal rules of composition are very useful: carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiyen Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Marc, Are you writing up your posts in an editor like Word first, or directly into the Photo.net posting box? The weird codes are usually from the use of non-ASCII characters in the original editor, which are then replaced by those funky characters (either the accented "Y" or the "?") in HTML. This happens a lot when people compose in Word first, since it uses stuff like "smart quotes" where the closing quote is upside down. There is no ASCII value for an upside down quote. allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 Well, I don't think you need to know the actual math of it in detail Ben. The Golden Mean isn't 1/3rd 2/3rds ... it's based on the proportions of a square ... and that's easy to imagine in a viewfinder. The diagrams don't really need any words at all ... just look at them and you get it. But, thirds will work a lot better than if every photo was shot dead center : -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Then there's the "rule of suggestion". I looked at your photo and now I'm dying for a cup of cafe Cubano...LOL. At least I won't need to use the ATM machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Alright, an espresso worked as well! The traditional format for prints was/is 8x10, or close to it. We went through a period when square prints were popular, 5x5 and 10x10, when most wedding shooters used Rollies and Hasselblads. Now most labs proof 35mm to 4x6 which is the same ratio as the standard 35mm format and pretty much the same as the golden mean. I'm assuming that you're suggesting that people compose for the full format, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colleendonovan Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Okay, I'm going to have to read this ten times to get it, but I'm so going to try to do it at my next wedding! I'm sooo excited about this new category of challenges! I have always wanted to take some real art and photography classes and haven't been able to yet. Thanks Marc!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestryinagain Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Im with Colleen. I will have to read this a few times to get a good understanding. Rule of thirds I understand, but I didnt realize that mathmatecally its actually skewed a little from that. Great example Marc, Im glad you put that there. Unfortunately, Im a person that needs a visual, a picture, a diagram, a flowchart, etc. to understand a lot of things. I definitely live by a photo is worth a 1000 words, its where I get my comprehension and ability to retain the concept. This should be another super series, and is so much appreciated that this forum is willing to spend this kind of time to "drag the rest of us along"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have been toying with having 1123581321 tattooed on me somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenacolson Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 What an interesting and timely post! My fiance's brother is an architecture student in Milwaukee and recently did a whole design project based on the golden mean/golden rectangles. It's really cool to think about how that ratio works its way into all forms of art...even (especially) photography! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanphysics Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 <i>The Golden Ratio is an infinite series</i> <p> No, it's simply an irrational number. There are infinite series that converge to it, but that's true of any number. You don't need to get into infinite series at all -- it's just one plus the square root of five, all over two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anner Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Not as dramatic as Marc's near perfect example, but using a rough golden mean, with the addition of a few more subdivisions based purely on thirds (the horizontal lines are not part of the golden mean). I further explore leading lines as a means of filling the frame and bringing the focus of the image to the lower third cross section.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 <i>I have been toying with having 1123581321 tattooed on me somewhere.</i><P> I met a girl once (who was working at an assistant at my ex-girlfriend's photography business) who had a Spira Mirabilis tattooed on her upper arm (vertical orientation, rather than the horizontal version above). She was impressed that I knew what it was . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anner Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 sorry, it's been a while, forgot the 510 resize<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 For those that may not know, Photoshop can assist with the layout and show the grid lines that Ann R has on her image above. They don't print. Go to Photoshop/Preferences/Guides,Grid,Slices 3rd box down; set Gridline every 33.33 Percent & subdivision 1. Then set it onto a keyboard short cut, mine is Apple' . I find it a great reminder. Marc, if there's a more precise way of doing it in line with the Golden Mean let us know. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Hi Gary, the PS grid can indeed be a help in composition. This can also aid in another design basic know as the "Swiss Grid" but we'll leave that discussion for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_rubinstein___mancheste Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Marc, I'm Ben, he's Bruce! ;-) You can tell the difference in that I never got further than high school math! I'll contribute when I have a second, I'm up to my eyes in it. I do actually have a grid screen in camera, can't see that I use it for rule of thirds/golden mean but it would help for that, maybe I do subconsciously. Most of my photography ends up being rule of thirds however subconsciously, added to that I mentally split the scene into thirds horizontally and thirds vertically and 'think' that way. Everything ends up being thirds in composition, you have the golden mean, rule of thirds, triangles leading the eye into the subject, foreground, subject, background, etc, etc. I find that the rule of thirds or the golden mean are important in that you use them to lead the eye into the photo, compostion is more than just making a photo asthetically pleasing, one should use the composition to 'make' the photo, the express what the photo has to say by making sure the eye works it's way into the photo the way you intend.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 An excellant idea for a tutorial Marc! IMHO, if you want to learn composition (and lighting), go to an art museum, and seek out the "old master's" paintings. They knew a thing or two about "third's and mean's". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Sorry Ben, I did it again. Looking forward to your contribution. Steve, I totally agree. It's so apparent in so many great paintings. Once you start looking for it, it seems to be everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.anisimov Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Ben - you have provided an interesting example. As you said, it's not a perfect illustration of a golden mean rule, however it got me thinking that the ultimately triangled image might end up dead centre. I.e, in your image the hands roughly follw the golden mean however once the big and small tringles are in place, the ring - the centre of attention is actually centred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenm Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 WOW ! Thanks Marc! This is WAY over my head, but I'll try reading it 20 times (it will take me more than 10). Did I miss parts 1 and 2? Is this our next "assignment"? I still haven't gotten to Nadine's last two but the sun is finally out here today and I'm having company (ha ha little do they know, they are my latests subjects). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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