panoramic camera: fuji or noblex?

<p>hi there,<br>

i am thinking about purchasing a panoramic camera and would like it to be the biggest format available which is 6x17 i believe.<br>

i've narrowed it down at the moment to the fuji g617/fuji gx617 and the noblex 175.<br>

can anyone contribute some thoughts on these cameras? which one is easier to handle (in handheld mode), what are the viewfinders like, the shutter speed and the close focus of the lenses, weight, angle of view, pros and cons..?<br>

and can someone explain the difference between a pan lens camera (noblex) and the fuji? how is the optical impression different and what would be pro&cons of a pan lens camera?<br>

or if there are other reasonable options/cameras out there that i havent come across yet please let me know!<br>

any hint will be highly appreciated!! :-)</p>

<p>cheers,<br>

m</p>

<p>Totally different cameras for different purposes. Noblex is an exellent real rotating panoramic camera, Fuji is as well an exellent camera but "only" ordinary wideangle camera. Rent both for one day and see the difference. I have been using similar pair, but smaller (35 mm): Hasselblad X-Pan with 30 mm lens and 35 mm Nobex 135. When taking photos of known square shapes (houses, cars, etc.) a real panoramic camera makes easily recognazible "cigar aberration", a high quality wide angle camera not. On the other hand it is no mistake, but a character. When photographing landscape the difference is more difficult to see.</p>

<p>Kerkko K.</p>

<p>Neither. Linhof or Ebony.</p>

<p>hi bruce,<br>

can you be more specific? why linhof or ebony? why are they better? aren#t they much more expensive aswell?</p>

<p>m</p>

<p>maybe i need to mention that i don't intend to earn money with my panorama shots. it would be just a (expensive) hobby. therefore i also don't want to spend a fortune.</p>

<p>I have owned the G617 and now own the GX617 with a 90mm lens. I havent shot with a Noblex but I have heard about them from those who shoot with the camera. I think as an all round camera that will let you do anything you want. ie Hand held to long exposure shooting you will be better off with the Fuji cameras.<br>

I personally wouldnt go for a 35mm panoramic format like the Xpan as once you look at both the trannys from them you will be amazed at the size of a 6x17 over 35mm panno.<br>

With either of the Fuji's cameras make sure you find one with a centre filter as fall off is an annpying side effect. An alternative to buying the Fuji would be a Fotoman panoramic camera. They can be fitting with a wide range of lenses and for the price of a new Linhof you can get 2 Fotomans with the same lens. I have a Fotoman 6x24 on order that I am receiving at the end of the month. The only pain with the Fotoman is having to manually roll on to the next shot.<br>

Hope this helps.<br>

Matt | www.mattlauder.com.au</p>

<p>It is because of the lenses. Linhof 6x17 takes Schneider XL lenses which are among the best. The advantage of Ebony is that it will take your regular view camera lenses. It may cost a little more than a Fuji, but you can use better lenses that do not require helical focusing because the camera has a bellows. The saving will be very considerable, especially if you want more than one lens. The list price of a 90mm for the Linhof is about $5700. The lens without the Linhof mount is around $2400. I should mention that I sell both brands, but my store is as much a hobby as a business (I am supposed to be retired), and I sell only superior products.</p>

<p>Martin: The biggest panoramic format is 12x20 inches.</p>

<p>I have had my Noblex 150F for over 15 years. Yes, you will get distortion of horizontal surfaces at close range but for landscapes the results are stunning. It has around a 140 degree view and takes 6x12 format. I discounted the Fuji because of the requirement to use centre weighted filters. The Noblex being a rotating lens panorama has no loss of edge sharpness and you are only using the sweet part of the lens <em>(as it rotates).</em> All of my shots have been handheld, except for a some wedding shots where I had the bridal party and family stand in a circle for the group picture.<br>

I also tried to use my 4x5 field camera to take 6x12 format but while the aspect ratio looks the same, the field of view is only as good as your widest wide angle lens. I have also had very good results from my Horizon 202 <em>(russian rotating lens 35mm)</em> panorama camera . The "202" has a unique way of exposing the film, through a SLIT governed both by rotation speed and slit width. I have take quite a few "night" shots all handheld without any problems</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Because the Fuji or Linhof cameras need a center filter for their wide angle lenses should not be a deterant to buying one. With rotating lenses like the Noblex you are limited to your maximum exposure time. Unlike the fuji or Linhof where you can expose a single frame for hours if needed. I love doing long exposure photography day or late evening with exposures going up to 14 minutes. Also for cameras with 5x4 backs remeber you are now shooting 5x4 film which will get expensive quickly not only in processing but also scanning the film later down the track.<br>

I guess the questions you have to ask yourself is what do you want to do with the camera. But of the ones mentioned I think the Noblex is the most limiting and the Ebony will be the most expensive to run.<br>

With film cameras you cant just think of the cost of the camera it self you have to consider the cost to run it with the film type.</p>

<p>I recently sold my Fuji G617 for $3300 Australian and it had the centre filter so getting one at a good price (with centre filter) isnt a problem at all. Most G617 and GX617 will be sold with a centre filter.</p>

<p>great! that's already pretty nice infos that i got from you guys:-) thanks for that!<br>

matt:concerning long exposure:why wouldnt i just double expose with a noblex (or even more than twice) util i get my rigth exposure time? what is the maximum exposure time for the noblex? you sold your fuji g617 for 3.300-with a lens or without?<br>

and you are right,i wanna stick to 120 rollfilm to keep the cost low. as i've said it's only a hobby...<br>

bruce:i had a look at your shop. thanks for the tip. but keeping all the above mentioned in mind i still tend to get a fuji. it semms like the quality i get is definitly good enough for my pourposes and a fuji seems more like an allrounder that is easy to handle aswell.<br>

is a noblex actualy cheaper than a fuji?<br>

and what is the angle of the 105mm of the fuji and to what focal length does it correspond? about 14mm on a SLR?<br>

and has anyone ever laid hands on a dr.gilde kamera??<br>

http://www.gilde-kamera.de<br>

this one seems to be the ultimate panoramic camera but not realy my budget :-)</p>

<p>The G617 comes with a fixed 105mm lens so the camera was sold compete ready to go for $3300. Im not sure if you can double exposure on a Noblex. I dont think you can. But it would be alot of mucking around just to extend an exposure time. Sounds like you would be best to hire both systems and make your choice that way.<br>

With the Fuji G617 or GX617 you can shoot 220 film which gives you double the number of exposures and you save money getting it processed. Here in Australia it is $9 for a roll 120 and $15 for a roll of 220 to have processed.</p>

<p>How about a Fotoman 4X10 with a SA 90mm will give you a 4X8 (inches) negative, or with a SA 120mm will cover the whole 4X10 with about 90 degrees on the horizontal. Splitting 8X10 is still an issue for me - still waiting on the Fotoman splitter.</p>

<p>Again you have to look at the film format. 8 x 10 would be a killer to even my shooting budget.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>i am thinking about purchasing a panoramic camera and would like it to be the biggest format available</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Consider digital panos. A great way in is the Gigapan robotic pano head. It basically operates on the same principles as the Noblex. It's useful for the same scenes, but are also subject essentially to the same kind of limitations. The biggest difference though, is that it can be used to trivially produce panos that far outresolve practical film based solutions and at zero recurring operational cost.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=8567">Here's a pano </a> that I did awhile back with the Gigapan and a Canon P&S. This one is a bit more than 200MP as I recall - which is actually on the small side as these things go. Note the unfortunate blue sky seams. Their stitching software of the time wasn't all that great.</p>

<p>to answer your question regarding long exposures on the Noblex you have the option to let the lens continue to rotate to "build up" to the correct exposure so there are certain shots you will not be able to shoot, such as Fireworks. But if you are shooting street scenes (at night) it works to your benefit as people walking by are nearly ignored so it is a camera for a specific purpose and you have to know its limitations & strengths. I have other formats and if I require a traditional camera then I can use one of my 4x5's or my Fuji GSW690.<br>

I have been shooting panoramas before digital became vogue and one thing that I had to consider was post processing. My local prolab could only enlarge up to 4x5 so that limited my max format to 6x12 (or 4x5), and I had a 4x5 enlarger that I could use to do my own B&W's. Of course with digital there are more stitching options, it's just the printing that remains expensive.</p>

<p>Matt: The Ebony costs the same to use as a Linhof or Fuji. It takes the same 120 film.</p>

<p>i just had a quick look at the fromtmans now:nice cameras! if it'd be large format still not realy within my budget though (the film and processing will be much more expensive)....<br>

can aynone explain me what "Helical Focus Mount" and "Useable Shutters:Copal - #0, #1,Compur - #00, #0, #1,Prontor - #0, #1" means?<br>

does the noblex take 220 film? and for how much does a 2nd hand noblex go for?<br>

and for the fuji 617:is there a place/shop that sells them? besides ebay..</p>

 

<p>anyone ever came across "gaoersi" cameras ?<br>

http://www.gaoersi-camera.com<br>

they do 6x12, 6x17, 6x24, 8x10, 4x5.....located in hong kong...</p>

<p>and how does 1.950 USD for a G617 sound? in "bargain" condition (</p>

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<td><strong>"Bargain" 70-79% of original condition. Shows more than average wear. May have dents, dings and a goodly amount of brassing and finish loss. Glass may have marks that should not affect picture quality.</strong> </td>

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<p>)<br>

what you think?</p>

<p>I have been dreaming of a medium panoramic camera with the widest possible span: 360 degrees and I came across the roundshot camera from Switzerland. unfortunately before I can afford one they have stopped producing film cameras. Tak</p>

<p>medium format panoramic camera, I mean. The largest format therefore is not 6x17. If a whole roll of 220 film is used up, it could be 6x144. As for quality since the roundshot camera can use any large format lens and lenses for Hasselblads, it is theoretically unbeatable. Tak</p>

<p>Martin that G617 is not a bargain it is a disaster waiting to happen. Cosmetic markings showing acceptale use is fine. More than that shows lack of care for your gear. Glass scratching is neglegence. Stating that the marks "should not" affect picture quality. Tells me that the sell hasnt used the camera to know so i would guess they arnt the owner. This is a lemon.</p>

<p> Had a Noblex 150. Sold it because never liked the cigar shaped distortion and intermittent banding problem associated with rotational panoramic cameras. I would go with the Fuji 617. Right now I'm happy with my XPan. Good luck</p>