Noisier with age?

Hi all!

I have a 7D and lately, I have noticed that the images seem to be getting noisier and noisier. When I look at shots from a few years ago, same ISO and same lens, they are a lot cleaner. Actually, images I took with my old 20D are a LOT less noise than recent 7D shots.

I've googled and googled and came across a post that suggests that sensors deteriorate and get noisier with age. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

 

I'm hoping it's something that can get fixed, I know I need to update my equipment and had planned on doing so this fall, but now I'm not sure if I should wait for the rumored full frame mirrorless to come out. But I also have lots of travel coming up this summer and don't want to shoot thousands of useless images.

Try a new battery. Your old battery could be losing full capacity and voltage is dropping thus current goes up across the circuit, your sensor could be heating up more and causing noisy photos. Cameras work best with new batteries. Just my opinion. You can only expect one to two years of good use from a battery. The 7D has been around for a while, are your batteries getting long in the tooth? Old weak batteries and hot sensors will make for noisier photos. Canon is making the new LP-E6N that can replace the old LP-E6, the new battery has a little better capacity too. They are about $60 and it is the only batteries I buy these days.

 

A nice grip will give you two batteries too.

 

Another battery tip is to try to avoid draining your Lithium ION batteries down to dead. Keeping them topped off is best and will prolong battery life. A grip may get you through the day without totally draining your batteries. Keep in mind, even batteries sitting on your shelf or a store shelf for a couple years is aging. They are only at peak performance for a year or so.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Mark Keefer

Mark, thank you so much for this info! I had no idea! I've had this camera since 2011 and got the batteries I'm using at the same time too. One battery in particular is very finicky, I get constant error messages and have to take it out and put it back in to get the camera to work again. Wow, if that's it, you've saved me a lot of money and headaches! :-) Thanks for the tip about not letting them drain too - I'm absolutely guilty of doing that. Oops.

 

I've noticed recently too that the camera seems to need a higher ISO than before. I used to shoot at 100 all the time, but now, that's hardly ever enough for even daylight shots.

 

Thanks again!

Cattie

I've noticed recently too that the camera seems to need a higher ISO than before. I used to shoot at 100 all the time, but now, that's hardly ever enough for even daylight shots.

Cattie

 

Forgive me if this is well below your level. In daylight you should be able to get proper exposure at f/16, 1/100s at ISO 100. If you get a fresh battery and you still cannot get a good exposure at these settings then something else is definitely wonky.

Forgive me if this is well below your level. In daylight you should be able to get proper exposure at f/16, 1/100s at ISO 100. If you get a fresh battery and you still cannot get a good exposure at these settings then something else is definitely wonky.

Thanks for the feedback James! I agree, ordered a new battery and am supposed to get it on Monday. If I still have a problem, I'll have to look into other possibilities. Fingers crossed it's the battery though! As much as I'd love to upgrade, it's not the ideal time for it (financially and otherwise).

My Canon 5D (mark I) is 13 years old and still produces very nice images, even at 1600 ISO (which is max before the HI ISO setting of 3200). I am using a 3rd party battery that is probably 10 years old. My Olympus EM-5 is 6 years old and ISO 3200 still looks good and the 2 original batteries still work OK. I have regularly drained batteries and not seen any deterioration in images when the batteries are fresh or the when the orange low battery signal is blinking (just before the battery dies).

 

Your may have a different experience and it is certainly possible that your 7D is not performing well. It may make sense to test the camera in a more controlled environment, noting that at the same ISO setting, images shot under tungsten light will show more noise than images shot under daylight or flash, and underexposure will dramatically increase noise (with most Canon cameras).

My Canon 5D (mark I) is 13 years old and still produces very nice images, even at 1600 ISO (which is max before the HI ISO setting of 3200). I am using a 3rd party battery that is probably 10 years old. My Olympus EM-5 is 6 years old and ISO 3200 still looks good and the 2 original batteries still work OK. I have regularly drained batteries and not seen any deterioration in images when the batteries are fresh or the when the orange low battery signal is blinking (just before the battery dies).

 

Your may have a different experience and it is certainly possible that your 7D is not performing well. It may make sense to test the camera in a more controlled environment, noting that at the same ISO setting, images shot under tungsten light will show more noise than images shot under daylight or flash, and underexposure will dramatically increase noise (with most Canon cameras).

 

Thanks so much for weighing in on this Ken! Hm, I guess I'll just have to wait for that new battery to arrive and test it and see. I have done several controlled test shoots both indoors and out, with all my different lenses, but no matter where and how I shoot, it all comes out super noisy. I wish I hadn't sold my 20D, those images are crystal clear in comparison. Even my old Panasonic Lumix point and shoot (which I won in a contest) produced better quality images than my 7D does right now.

 

On a different note, the body I have been looking at for when I upgrade is a 5D Mark III, and it's nice to hear that you're still getting good results with the M1.

I am using a 3rd party battery that is probably 10 years old.

Wow! o_O10 years old and still like a new battery. Sounds like some real Wonder battery. Are you on some special list getting access to the good stuff, cause I never get batteries that good. I am not doubting what you say, but Elon Musk or the government might want these batteries now that they know you have them. Better watch over your shoulder. I once heard of a guy who got a special carburetor that got him over 100 miles per gallon on his big 1970's American made car. He and the car with the carburetor vanished one day and were never heard from again.o_O Is your house built on one of Earth's Lay Lines and taping into some kind of hyperdimensional physics. Do you find you and people in your home age very slowly? Does food not spoil in your refrigerator? Did you strike a deal with the devil? :eek:

 

You should have never had spoke of this, Ken. Now that you have, you jinxed it, I won't be surprised to hear those batteries implode in some zero-point energy meltdown next time you use them.:eek: Poof, you the camera and the batteries get sucked into a black hole.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Mark Keefer

If Musk wants to test my batteries, that would fine with me as long as he leaves a Tesla for me to play with. Since my so called 2018 tax cut is really a tax increase (as per my accountant), the government can kiss my "tuchus". The 5D had one OEM battery and I had one from my ancient D60 (yes the 6mp D60). I picked up one or 2 3rd party batteries, but I really stopped using the FF equipment about 7 years ago due to weight and bad back. I occasionally use the 5D now and just one of the remaining 3rd party batteries still keeps a charge and works OK. Far more worried about the two 6-year old batteries for my EM-5.

wants to test my batteries, that would fine with me as long as he leaves a Tesla for me to play with.

The Roadster :). I got the same tax cut. You heard of new speak from 1984. Well this language was not English, it was Politician. It has been done before, remember "Read my lips. No new taxes". Translation = new taxes. And so "Tax cut" = Tax hike. Now they really didn't care if you check after a year because in 4 years your head will be spinning from all the noise in the press and TV that you will be too dizzy to think about it. And next election they just sling some more mud and a fancy new slogan that will dazzle peoples eyes. Make the country spiffy spangle sparkle again, you know, like an episode of Ozzy and Harriet, and Harriet would bring a big plate of sandwiches and sodas to the boys for lunch, wow, just like that. Now doesn't that sound swell. Oh and the other side is going to take your money, take your children, take your guns and take your freedom to think and choose, all to turn this world into some kind of place were people dont have to work to pay for there Cancer Treatment because you will. And they are going to let illegals into to the country to take your jobs, and all the illegals are putting so much wieght on the continent it is sinking, the ocean isn't rising. The country is sinking from the weight. It is also putting pressure on the core of the planet causing it to squeeze until the crust cracks and there are earth quakes and volcanos oozing hot lava. Look at Hawaii. But vote for us, our hot air will lift the country and make it spiffy spanky sparkling again. :D Coming soon to an election near you till there are no more.:cool: oh and there will be no more taxes then for sure, watch my lips while I say it real slow, no more taxes then for sure. It is going to be really great folks, just wait and see, best no taxes for sure, ever! It can all be yours. :DThere is a little Mr. Hainy from Green Acres in every politician. :confused:

Edited June 2, 2018 by Mark Keefer

I've still got a couple of 3rd party BP-511s that lasted for at least 8yrs, and were going strong when I sold the camera out from under them... I still miss the buttery smooth OOC Raws from my 5Ds.

 

In fairness, the 5D had about the smoothest sensor I ever worked with - far smoother output all the way up to 1600 than any camera I've owned since, or any sensor who's raw output I've seen since. I would think that that sensor in particular would be far less susceptible to over current image degredation than any 'modern' pixel-dense sensor.

 

I'm not convinced about the original idea (of sensor degradation with age), absent a contributing factor (such as the suggested over current draw from a dying battery)... However, modern sensors are FAR MORE SENSITIVE than older sensors... (that is, for example, how we get usable imagery at ISO 102400 these days) as such, every stressor is possibly going to have a tangible effect on the sensor output... Batteries are cheap, and it's a great idea to have a reasonably fresh one However, the 7D's 18MP sensor is the same as that used on what (?) half a dozen different models from 2009-2016? I would suggest that if this were something to be 'normally expected' there would be a crapload of people complaining about it...

 

TBH, I think there may be something else going up w/ your 7D (possibly more than one symptom/problem)- especially as you've noticed that tendency to shoot at higher ISOs when shooting auto...

 

Out of curiosity, what firmware version do you have installed on your 7D?

When I had my 40D I bought some third party Delkin BP-511 batteries, a 2 pack in a sealed plastic pack. One battery refused to charge, I took it back to the camera shop where they looked at me like I was trying to pull a fast one. The other battery performed well for 6 months then took forever to charge and finally would never reach full charge. I bought maybe 3 third party LP-E6 batteries, one would never fully charge but it was bought in a sealed pack at a store closing sale. The other two again performed well for a few months and lost stamina after that. They will still charge but I don't get near the shots I do with my Canon batteries. These are my last resort batteries. I also had a Canon battery fail on me. I am getting nowhere near these longevity batteries with no loss of performance that I hear of. My cameras do get used regularly. I went to college for electronics, I am a telecommunications engineer and a HAM radio operator. I am fairly knowledgeable about batteries. There may be some good third party batteries out there, but in my personal experience, I have not found them. I found, in my personal opinion and experience, good performance with Canon original batteries. I have found no battery that doesn't lose performance with age and use. You may prolong battery performance with good battery maintenance, proper charging, and care. Keep them charged and topped off. But physics is physics. You may still be able to get a battery to charge after a number of years, but put it under load and measure it's voltage and rate of draining compared to a new battery. IMHO I expect to see a difference.

 

Let's take this to an extreme, let's say your life depends on this battery. You are going into an extremely hostile environment and you need to count on this battery for your only hope getting out alive. Are you going in with an 8 or 10-year-old battery or a new one?

 

Let's step it back, you are hired for an amazing photo assignment to photograph a once in a lifetime event. The event cannot be duplicated and you are expected to capture as many moments as possible. Are you going in with an 8-year-old battery because you are too cheap to buy a $60 battery, risking great shots for your client, possibly getting noisier shots than necessary, and risking your reputation as a photographer? Do you want to be that photographer?

 

Maybe photography isn't that important to some people, so if so, screw it and keep shooting with a decade old battery if you are happy. I only gave my honest opinion, really do what you want.

LOL, all fair points! ...but largely more suitable for a different conversation. The OP already bought new batteries, and it's entirely possible that they will fix her problems... it's also possible that they won't.

 

Let's put this in perspective. The problem description is (and I'm paraphrasing here): high amounts of noise in the imagery -even at lower ISOs- higher than imagery shot years prior w/ same settings... and her camera is shooting at higher ISOs than should be required.

 

...maybe the battery is the source of that problem... buuuuuut that's a pretty sketchy logical reasoning tree.... possible? sure. likely? mmmmmm

 

TBH, I think that a battery that is leaking enough over current to result in this effect on the imagery a) is going to last long enough to shoot for about 5min before the camera shuts off due to marginal power, and b) may have already done significant damage to the camera's voltage regulated power systems. As should be obvious, the sensor does NOT operate at B+ voltage. The camera regulates the voltage sent to all the digital and analog subsystems. This should isolate the sensor from all overcurrent as long as the battery's power delivery stays above the minimum required to supply the voltage regulators (which is also well beyond the point where a blinking battery is all you see on the display when you turn the camera on). Unless there is damage or failures in the camera's power distribution systems, no failing battery should ever have an effect on sensor noise. The camera is designed specifically to avoid that - else I'd be getting noisier and noisier images every time I shot through a battery.

Let's step it back, you are hired for an amazing photo assignment to photograph a once in a lifetime event. The event cannot be duplicated and you are expected to capture as many moments as possible. Are you going in with an 8-year-old battery because you are too cheap to buy a $60 battery, risking great shots for your client, possibly getting noisier shots than necessary, and risking your reputation as a photographer? Do you want to be that photographer?

 

Maybe photography isn't that important to some people, so if so, screw it and keep shooting with a decade old battery if you are happy. I only gave my honest opinion, really do what you want.

 

BTDT. I took that $60, and bought 4 batts, so, instead of only being able to shoot 750 incredible images, I was able to shoot 3000. Guess I won that round? IMProfessionalE, decent quality (and no, we are not talking about the bottom of the barrel no name 'Cannon' ones) 3rd party batts perform identically (with IDENTICAL reliability) compared w/ OEM ones. The only difference is that, instead of 1 for $60, I can get 4 for $60. So, guess what! when a battery unexpectedly dies (and yes, genuine, OEM, units do it too) in the middle of a shoot, I can simply grab another, toss it in, and go back to shooting.....

 

... of course if my battery budget (because I run a business) was only $60, and I only had one, very nice, high quality, genuine, OEM batt, I would have to turn to my clients and *shrug* and be like 'Equipment failure' *sad face* sorry! I'm headed home!

BTDT. I took that $60, and bought 4 batts, so, instead of only being able to shoot 750 incredible images, I was able to shoot 3000. Guess I won that round?

o_O Maybe so? You are right, your photography may be important to you too, but you have a budget. I misspoke. If you trust them and are happy with them. Good for you. Wish you all the best in success with your business.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Mark Keefer

BTDT. ...decent quality ... 3rd party batts perform identically (with IDENTICAL reliability) compared w/ OEM ones.

In theory, that should be true. This has not been my experience with 3rd party batts. I have had very mixed results with them. Some have performed as well, or nearly as well, as the OEM batts, but didn't last as long. Some have run down much quicker than OEM, others have both run down quicker and died sooner. But, I've also had mixed results with supposedly OEM batteries. I say supposedly because even batteries get counterfeited, these days. So, paying $60 per battery may not guarantee anything, except the inability to buy as many batteries. I wonder if buying batteries directly from Canon would solve the problem.

 

And the experience was even worse with replacement Olympus batteries.

My original battery budget was about $350/yr. That was all OEM. After trying some el-cheapo 'Cannnon' batts (as in the 10 for $20 fleabay variety) - that did NOT work out very well, I went ahead and bought some branded decent quality 3rd party units. I was able to drop that budget from ~$350 to ~$100 per year with no real impact on shooting. In practical terms they performed identically (or near-enough-as-saw-no-difference) to OEM.

 

$60 was NOT my actual budget - as I needed 6 batts per camera, and budgeted replacing them every second year.

 

Regardless, I am curious about whether new batts solved the OP's problem?