No wonder professional's aren't being hired to do weddings anymore.

Everybody asks their uncle or cousin or friend of a cousin or their

step-sister's brother's dog. How many "So and so asked me to do

their wedding and I've never taken real pictures before. By the

way, what is an F-stop?" are we gonna get? This is really getting

to be ridiculous. I know everyone has to start somewhere, but come

on! So now I suppose I can ask my question since I've vented a

little. When do you think the backlash will come from brides who

have asked an amateur (at best) to photograph their wedding and have

ended up with really crappy or no photographs?

At that point it will be to late, the damage will have already been done. Lets just hope said bride will tells friends and family "Don't make the same mistake I did, hire a professional"!

I responded to one of these yesterday and what ticks me off is that so many of these people obviously have never even read a book on wedding photography. It's one thing to have been in photography for a while with a solid understanding of what you're doing, and then start exploring some new area like weddings and educate yourself on the subject before taking the plunge. It's totally another to think that just because you spent $1500 on a new camera last week (or $150) that you're automatically a photographer and that a couple of quick questions on a web site will be all it takes. Maybe I'll buy a guitar on the way home tonight and see if I can start playing weddings this weekend. Or buy a Kitchen Aid mixer and start baking wedding cakes.

There will never be a backlash. People that know to hire a professional will do so. Those that can't afford one or don't care enough about the final output won't.

 

I don't think anything has really changed except for the fact that the internet has allowed amateur photographers to become more visible by way of the message board.

 

Some people go to the dealer, some an independent mechanic, and some people get help from relatives. This hasn't changed since the car was invented and it won't change for the wedding and event photography business either.

Colleen:

 

Granted, this is a very samll sample but over the summer I had 5 students get married and one who was a bridesmaid. These women were all toward the uppder-middle class, with the exception of one I'm not sure about. None of them planned to hire a photographer although one is a photographer and had her friend who is also a photographer (both professionals) do her wedding. When I asked about the photographer they all said , "it's not that important to me as long as I have a few pics and (fill in the blank) is going to get those." They said they either "didn't care,", wanted the money for the honeymoon or downpayment on their house, or wanted to spend extra on the guests so that they had a really good time.

 

I told them I thought they would be sorry someday and they shrugged and said "maybe, but that's what we've decided." Three of them showed me the photos later. The good one was, of course, the pro but the others weren't that bad, especially if you "don't care about having photos."

 

I think you may see a lot more of that. Some of it is the divorce rate, some is seeing photos as 'baggage' that they have to keep somewhere and move around while they get into careers and some of it comes from 'living in the moment.' I'm sure there are other reasons as well, but this is out there.

 

Conni

I agree with you Craig. When i started out I asked a lot of questions on here and everyone was very supportive and helpful. BUT - I had been a second shooter at 4 weddings prior to getting serious (I know that's not a lot, but it's better than zero!) about doing wedding photography and I had been a serious amatuer for about 5 years before that! I would never have dreamed of just jumping in and doing a wedding for anyone - especially friends and family! with out some sort of prior wedding photography experience. I think that people are so unafraid to do them now because they hear things like "Shoot in RAW. You can fix everything!" Which we all know isn't true. I was scared to death to do my first wedding and the pressure was so intense I could not sleep at all the night before. (And I was using digital so I could fix everything. :)) I just don't get it. The other thing is that brides put almost no value on good pictures.

It's a changed world. When we used cameras and film, everything had to be done correctly and there was no chance of reshooting a wedding. Today, with digital cameras, chances of getting photos exposed correctly are at over 90%. Anyone can do it! Getting beautiful photos, that's where a professional photographer excells at. But, at today's rates, most people want snapshots. So be it! I was a guest at a wedding, and the DJ was providing the photography. A girl dressed in black with a snaphappy digital PS. All night she was just walking around and taking candids of people looking at her. The bride and groom were very happy with the results, which were shown on a screen that night and later given to them on CD. DJ made some extra money, no photographer on the job. But, there were no photos of any family members, bride and groom, just candids. What you define as "crappy" was something the bride and groom were perfectly happy with. That's where the industry is going. Unfortunately, it will take 20 or 30 years, when the cd's are broken, unreadable and lost or not backed up for people to realize that all their history is gone! I think we need to change our thinking about this. Digital is here, but tomorrow it will be gone. Every Tom Dick and Harry just wants to make some $$$ and give a CD. A professional photographer will work to make sure the memories last a lifetime. That's what we should be concentrating on. High quality and something that will be here in the future. You get what you pay for!

Easy does it guys...

 

Think about how many people get married every year.

 

Think about how many of these are small or backyard weddings (so to speak) where the couple wouldn't be hiring a photographer anyway!!

 

Think about how many of us started out this way.

 

Think about how many people will do it and realize it isn't their calling.

 

Think about the fact that when couples view an album from a first time shooter - 90% or more are going to say to themselves ...hmmm I better hire a pro for my wedding.

 

Take it easy on people who come here to get info.

 

You are all so patient most of the time and give them the good advice about assisting, reading, researching and/or tell the couple, if they can afford it - to hire a pro and just shoot some candids.

 

When it is clear to us that the newcomer is doing a wedding for a family or friend that just wants half way decent documentation and is NOT hiring a pro - some of you give them some great advice.

 

This is not a "pro" forum - although there are many very talented pros here. We have a tricky balance of hobbiests and professionals here. All are welcome.

There are over 56,000 weddings a year in the metro Atlanta area. More than half don't

have a professional photographer, so there's plenty of room for my brother's cousin's

sister's uncle to take a few photos.

 

We get a backlash story at almost every meeting we have about a friend's wedding

photographer that was horrible in some way, and those are the professionals. We also hear

about plenty of uncle's. The more brother's cousin's sister's uncles there are shooting, the

more we get people who don't want to take any chances after seeing the results.

 

Also, I don't really think there are any more brother's cousin's sister's uncles now than

there used to be, I just think you're more aware of them with forums like P.N.

Mary, I know all are welcome, and they should be! I'm just a little frustrated with the seeming lack of concern by those who are willing to do a first time wedding with no prior experience. And I feel sorry for the brides who may not get what they bargained for. Maybe it's because I don't have any wedding photos from my wedding and I feel bad about it and I know that I always will. It breaks my heart. My kids know what I do at weddings and they have asked me many times to see pictures from 'you and dad's' wedding. It really just makes me sad.

I have given this some thaought and am begining to believe not think but believe that the it goes like this.

 

John or Jane gets a Digital SLR fires of a few preset shots and thinks wow these images look great. John/Jane goes to Jenny's wedding and sees the designated pro shooting and begins to ask is that digital, how longyabeen shooting weddings man.

 

John is lulled by a false sense of security by using the gizmo dial and getting solid shots. John now thinks that all you need is that camera and a base of engaged friends to infiltrate.

 

I think the John/Jane wannabe Is the culprit and is the one saying I can do that! Thus it is the wannabe who promotes to the soon to be married friends. I think the DSLR person is the one going after the business. I think the bride to be gets caught of gaurd by the DSLR friend.

 

At my daughter's wedding I was talking to the photog she hired. I mentioned that I was a big photo hobbiest as a kid and was rekindling an interest in cameras and DVD authoring. He said call him to shoot weddings with him by the time I was ready he was unavailable due to family problems. Then I began doing research.

 

Colleen I feel this phenomenon will peak when incompetent results pervade too often. But they always have PN to bring them up to give them advice. Pay subscription only???

Conni's response scares me but I think she hit the nail on the head. I got out of shooting weddings over 20 years ago and, after constantly reading this forum, I doubt I could ever go back and work with such customer expectations as she and Abe note (which I agree with).

 

I imagine the really good talent will begin to comprise a smaller and smaller segment of overall shooters; the so-so ones at the other end of the bell curve and the middle of the curve (a large majority) will belong to the mediocre to poor photographers. Same way with their customer base and what they expect and will pay for.

 

How sad.

I also agree I will be seconding my first wedding in about 2 months.

When My friend asked me to be the primary I never hesateted to say No!

I think one need first knowledge of hoe to operate a camera! 2nd Time spent watching and helping someone that specializes in the area of weddings. My answer to my friend was that wedding pictures are something

forever and there is no way I want to be part of those memories if they are going to be unhappy when they look at there pictures.

I also know alot of people do not care so much about pictures any more as they are leaning more to the video man as society becomes lazy they would rather slid in the cd sit back on the couch w/ a beer and watch the whole thing from start to finish rather then flip through picturs.

What they do not know is that those cd's will one day wear out or break. media player will change andthere memories will be lost.

A PICTURE IS FOR EVER AND WORTH 1000 WORDS IN 150 YEARS! WHEN YOU KIDS

KIDS KIDS KIDS ARE LOOKING BACK AT THE FAMILY TREE!!

I have a friend who got married on a budget a while back and insisted, despite my protests, that I shoot her wedding. I am a rank amateur with no wedding experience at all, and I didn't have the right equipment to shoot in low light. My plan- make sure I was not the only one shooting multiple rolls of film at this gig. I ended up with some pretty good (by my standards) shots in the end, but what would have been my best roll was ruined by my ineptness- I didn't get the camera back closed tight! Further, my A1 had developed a light leak, so I ended up with orange lines on half my images.... The moral to my story- I don't know, it was a very uncomfortable and almost embarrassing situation for me, and given the opportunity to do it again, I would simply flat out refuse or hire someone else to do it for me. I am amazed at the willingness of amateur photographers to jump right in to weddings, given the stakes involved. Fortunately, I had covered my bases by telling her up front that I was not going to be able to give her what she would hope for, and had a couple other friends there covering my ass for the shots I screwed up. She insisted, and was happy that I would do it for her as a favor, so I couldn't really refuse... but don't call me for your wedding photos! If I was charging for my work, I would have had to do it for free that night anyway on principle.

 

: )

"There are over 56,000 weddings a year in the metro Atlanta area. More than half don't have a professional photographer"

 

 

So E.J., that gives you an opportunity to offer your services to 28,000 brides at a competetive rate. If you offer ALL of them a low price you might make a pretty good living this year. :)

 

Seriously though, that's a terrific opportunity to start a wedding business with a crew of photographers and try to get as much of that business as you can. The only question is, are there more than 28,000 professional photographers there as well?

 

Lou

Unfortunately, people usually get what they pay for.

 

Yes, indeed there are too many wannabees around and they're doing a horrible job at the photographic end BUT, in time, they're going to prove that a professional photographer is very much worth every dime he/she makes! Hopefully sooner than later, people will realize that quality supercedes a wannabe photographer not worth his/her salt! Unfortunately, also, this will be at the expense of a few very disappointed couples (and I've come across some these after they chose to go with cousin Jimmy or uncle Bob or uncle Harry to do their wedding).

 

I recall many years ago when the bride told me, "Oh, I can get my cousin to do the wedding for half of what you're charging!" I smiled and said, "Good. Have a nice day." The groom, who went to college with me, later told me that her cousin had ruined all of the images and they were going to rent a tux and wedding gown to have the formals re-photographed. He asked if I would do the photos but since I was really busy (and I was not interested in dealing with the lady), I declined. They paid a ridiculous fee to a studio photographer. I think they learned a lesson, don't you?

"The other thing is that brides put almost no value on good pictures."

 

For the most part this isn't so. Most brides want good pictures but there are so many websites to see and so many styles that there is no point of reference for what is good and what is bad.

 

It is that way with all art. Most people don't know good music anymore either. Anybody can make a music video or a recording and there are so many really awful songs being played on the radio and TV that it is getting harder to find the good ones.

 

There is no art education in the US. Kids are not raised with much appreciation for it and most parents are not prioritized to give their children a well rounded education.

 

The most ridiculous phrase there ever was in photography: "Hey, that camera takes great pictures"

 

Unfortunately even we photographers tend to say it without really thinking about the impression it can make.

 

If somebody gave me a brand new Steinway grand piano today, you can bet for sure I won't be on a piano forum tomorrow asking for tips on playing Chopin at Carnegie Hall next Saturday. BTW, do you have to use all of the black keys every time or can you just use the three in a row? Do I take all the repeats?

 

:) Yikes!

 

 

Lou

Jeff's novel:

 

This topic is one that I have been concerned about for quite sometime now. With all of the technology that we have today, that constantly improves, which allows more and more technology to come out everyday, I feel that eventually us photographers will be a thing of the past. There is no one to blame, it's just how it is. Sure, more and more "photographers" are popping up everywhere, and it will not stop. This is a competitive market, not only for us established photographers, but especially for manufacturers (Nikon & Canon). I mean they are constantly racing to make their products better, faster and at a lower cost than the next guy. And who helps make this possible? Us photographers, that's who. We love the gagets, and we want the absolute best that we can afford, so we are always buying, buying, buying, so Canon, Nikon, as well as all of the rest, jump into the buyers market by trying to beat out the next guy to increase sales, which means decreased prices, and the cycle continues. Therefore someone that has always been into photography, but didn't have the cash or knowledge to break into the business now find that they can afford what the pro's use, and they also find that with digital and ALL of the software available now, they really do not need to know much about photography because they do not have to. They see what they feel to be easy money. And that's what it's ALL about, the almighty dollar! So I guess if anyone was going to be the blame, it should be us photographers who support the digital industry by having to buy that new item that we just cannot live without. It's just how it is. Therfore, yes, uncles, aunts, cousins and friends can shoot weddings and anything else they want, and they will because they can. No, not everyone will run to buy digital stuff, and yes, people will still be getting married and want photography, but why pay so & so thousands of dollars, when so & so will do it for a few hundred, if not free? So I beleive that photography as we want it to be as business owners, will one day come to an end. If not to an end, very close. Just my opinion based on what I am hearing and seeing.

 

I purchased a nice building that I converted to my studio, but I am afraid that I will have to sell it this summer. Fortunately for me I got a great deal on it, and there have been many improvements, which has increased it's value. My plans are to sell the building, build another building on my persoanl property, and keep at photography until it does stop. At least that way I will have a workshop or whatever, and maybe a few tax write offs. I will always be a photographer, but at another level. We all will. Sorry to be sounding so morbid, but that's what it will come to. Why wouldn't it?

 

I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

 

Jeff

Well I shot my first wedding six years ago and it was my sister's and I was a bridesmaid. I worked with my husband (still do) and we read everything we could and practiced lots and planned for a crazy amount of time and I am still proud of those pictures. It got me started down the path to where I am now and I'm very happy with that.

 

It does bug me when clients say "Oh we only need you up till the beginning of the reception because we are going to have loads of people with digicams and they'll get the cake cut etc" but if I can't sell them on the difference between my recption pics and the am cam pics then I've failed as a salesperson. And maybe they're right not to care. Maybe they should spend the extra money on their house.

 

And from my own expereince, not all pro photographers deliver the goods either. I got married 11 years ago and my photos are technically fine but terribly, terribly boring. They look like every other wedding photo from the same year but with different faces. There is nothing special and unique about them. And I'm over it. Beautiful photos might be a joy forever but mediocre ones are just that. I think sometimes we get too precious about our images and think people will throw themselves off bridges in 5 years when the realise what they missed by not having a pro...if they're lucky they are too busy being happily married everyday to worry about it.

 

I guess waht I'm trying to say is lets not get too prcious about any of this; we all start somewhere, even pros can mess it up, and in the end it's the feeling of the day that's more important than the photos (although ideally they capture it).

and the groom was in a wheelchair. You all would have told me to run for the hills right?

there you go colleen. if YOU had an "uncle" or "friend" photographer in your family ,would you at least have SOMETHING in the way of images from your wedding day. well mabee. i realy think most people who hire "uncle bob" do not have photography very high on their list, and/or, they know darn well thier taking chances, and/or, they do not have the money for an experienced pro (as many pro's here did not have the money when they married).

The tragic part of the digital revolution is that not only do the cameras lose value quickly, but the average pro's skills are becoming devalued too.

 

In time the lure of a "digital quick buck", will fade into the difficult, reality of the job. And the start up shooters will crawl back under their rocks.

 

 

But untill the DSLR stops evolving( full size boards,under $1000), this trend can only continue. Once these cameras are sold for around $500-1000(like film cameras were), the market will finally saturate.

 

The fact is that being a great, or even a decent photographer, takes years of honing one's skills. To assume that simply owning a camera, will give you these skills. Is like thinking that if you own a Stradivarius , that you can be Yasha Heifetz.

 

 

Photography, like music can only be mastered over time by practice, practice, practice.

 

 

 

Lately some of the work shown for critiquing has been just God-awful too. Perhaps there really is some new warped aesthetic?

 

 

 

 

 

I do see more and more high end DSLRs in the hands of guests, at every wedding. When brides start getting free CDs from their guests, this can only hurt my bottom line.

Perhaps we all get to insulated with-in our photographic cocoon Colleen. Even at the mid-

level this is an expensive "consumer" product that doesn't look difficult to do anymore.

 

Once upon a time a pro showed up with a formidable looking rig and had skills beyond the

scope of Uncle Bob and his FTB. Is that true today?

 

How many wedding portfolios of 500 snapshots need we see to realize the consumer isn't

all wrong in being confused about the difference. Whole weddings done by well meaning

folks that digital has opened up a new passionate past-time to.

 

IMO, the responsibility is ours. Are we striving for the breath-taking shots that NO ONE

would confuse with Uncle Bob's or any prolific snap-shooter?

 

Does the consumer know the difference? (not to be confused with the ability or desire to

pay for it) ... In answer, I offer this:

 

Today's consumer is the most visually sophisticated in history. Even the worst motion

picture films are shot beautifully. TV shows are rarely poorly shot. Many national brand

commercials are a million $ in just production costs, and use top film directors and

cameramen. Take my word for it, the consumer knows good when they see it.

 

It's up to us to give it to them or be lumped in with commodity photography that's sold by

the pound the same as flour and potatoes.

"Or buy a Kitchen Aid mixer and start baking wedding cakes."

 

 

 

 

That'll work only if you can find the figurines to go on top at Wal-mart.

who needs a mixer when there's Krispy Kreme wedding cakes.