Nikon FA Random Unexposed Frames

I got a roll of film back the other day that I'd shot in my FA.

 

I was shooting Provia 100, and shot the roll in one session. I MOSTLY used my Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8D, and of course in manual mode. Everything was shot aperture priority, and since I was handholding I manually adjusted the aperture to keep the shutter speed in the 1/160-1/250 range. I was close to wide open if not wide open for virtually all shots. All were matrix metered also.

 

I had several frames in the roll that were blank. I unmounted them and filed the chips in order with the rest-the edge markings are perfectly legible=it's just that the frames are black. Many of them were in the middle of a sequence of several similar shots. In all, I think I had 7 blank frames of 37, and there was no obvious regularity to when they occurred-they were just spread about evenly through the film and never on two subsequent frames.

 

The batteries test good on the camera, and I've not had any issues in the past with it.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the issue might be?

"Does anyone have any thoughts on what the issue might be?"

 

- Using an FA. Simple as.

 

The FA quickly gained a reputation for fragility and unreliability soon after it came out in 198x. 30 years on it ain't got any more reliable!

Ben do you think it's totally blank or it's 1/4000 shutter speed? I had an FA that sometimes it shoot at 1/4000 regardless the meter or even in manual mode. The magnet somehow failed to hold the second curtain back for the delay.

The shutter solenoids are prone to random failure. It could be a high shutter speed, overlapping blinds, firing at the default mechanical 1/90th speed, not firing at all, or any of the above.

 

FAs belong in the recycle bin or on a display shelf. Nowhere else!

FAs belong in the recycle bin or on a display shelf. Nowhere else!

 

...which is kind of disappointing. In terms of what the camera can do when it works, it's quite technologically interesting. Although this comes back to a vague wish that Nikon (or someone) would make a DSLR that's truly compatible with absolutely everything in the F mount - which means more than the flip-up tab on the Df. The FA is one of the nearest to making "proper" use of AI-S.

...which is kind of disappointing. In terms of what the camera can do when it works, it's quite technologically interesting. Although this comes back to a vague wish that Nikon (or someone) would make a DSLR that's truly compatible with absolutely everything in the F mount - which means more than the flip-up tab on the Df. The FA is one of the nearest to making "proper" use of AI-S.

Yet to me the FA is one of Nikon worst SLR. The interface is inconsistent. Doing a stop down metering to check the aperture is not what I like. It was also quite expensive in its days selling for about the same price as the F3.

Yes, I think I like the premise of the FA a lot more than I'd like the implementation (I've never handled one). I'd prefer stop-down metering for pre-AI-S lenses to not being able to control the aperture from the camera at all, for example; I like the idea of the Df, but manually setting the aperture twice (assuming aperture is actually something you might want to change frequently) feels like a worse evil. Otherwise, for camera aperture control, we're looking at the EE units to make AI exposure work (I've never seen one but I doubt they're a neat solution), and there's nothing for pre-AI.

Thanks guys-guess I'll stick it on the shelf. I do like having matrix metering in an FM/FE sized body, but slide film is too expensive to dump that many frames-especially if I don't know where they are.

 

I agree that the UI is a bit weird, but honestly I've just left it in aperture priority mode(like I do most of the time with my DSLRs and modern film cameras) and gone on my way with it. I'm guessing it was either capping or firing at 1/4000. Given that the lowest metered speed I shot was 1/125 and most were 1/160th, firing at 1/90th would have meant that most would have been 1/2 to 1 stop over. It certainly would have been noticeable, but I'd have definitely had an image(and probably a salvageable one even though I'd have lost some highlights).

 

This was the first roll of slide film I'd shot in this camera, and I was impressed at how well the camera metered it otherwise. None of my shots were appreciably backlit, and most were at least somewhat in the shade with no sky visible, so it wasn't exactly a difficult metering situation. I shot without using any exposure compensation on any of the shots, and even the ones with some sky in them retained the foreground detail well.

 

It's a shame the FA has such a poor reputation. I think it's obvious that Nikon was targeting the Canon A-1, and of course in a lot of ways it was a one-up since it was built on the semi-pro FE/FM platform rather than the consumer A-series, used the fast vertical Copal square type shutter from the FM2/FE2(and initially with the titanium honeycomb, although mine is aluminum) rather than the old-fashioned silk horizontal shutter from the A-series, and offered matrix metering(in addition to CWA) rather than only CWA along with TTL flash. Still, though, the A-1 is pretty well universally liked and is pretty much rock solid while the FA doesn't have such a great reputation. Granted I'm partial to the A-1 as it was my first SLR, but I have thousands of perfectly exposed frames(including several hundred K-64s, E100G/GXs, Elite Chromes, and Velvias) from that camera. It continues to work perfectly when I get it out once every year or so.

 

One last thing on pre-AI lenses-don't forget that the FA lacks a flip-up tab so they're off limits. Of this series cameras/body style, you only get a flip-up tab on the original FM and FE. I think the F2sb is the ultimate pre-AI camera, although the Nikkormat EL is the only camera to offer any kind of practical AE(I don't consider the servo for the F2 series to be practical aside from stationary, automated applications) with the pre-AI lenses. The EL does dispense with one of the two Nikkormat "quirks" that I can't stand-the shutter speed dial around the lens mount-but does retain the other one of requiring the lens to be set to f/5.6 before mounting. Of course, if you only use Nikkormats the lenses will come off the camera set to f/5..6, but the F FTN and all the non-AI finders will usually leave them set to somewhere close to minimum aperture and of course the lens can be mounted and indexed with the ring set to any position.

Otherwise, for camera aperture control, we're looking at the EE units to make AI exposure work (I've never seen one but I doubt they're a neat solution), and there's nothing for pre-AI.

 

As I said-Nikkormat EL.

Yet to me the FA is one of Nikon worst SLR. The interface is inconsistent. Doing a stop down metering to check the aperture is not what I like. It was also quite expensive in its days selling for about the same price as the F3.

When Nikon introduced the FA in 1984, I was a graduate student, and I recall reading about this brand new matrix metering feature. I think the FA was in the $400+ range. At that time a fellow student had a full-time job, and he showed us his F3. I was quite impressed. The F3 was probably around $600 in that era. After I got my first job, I bought an FE2 and it was $300+ in 1987. Somehow I thought the FE2 would be the best camera for the rest of my life, silly me.

 

Ben, I am afraid the real issue is that you keep on using these "ancient" cameras that are not in very good condition. :rolleyes:

I don't think age or condition has much to do with the FA's reliability - or rather lack of.

 

I remember shutter problems and a re-design of the shutter being a hot issue shortly after it was introduced. I don't think the poor suckers that got the early shutter were even offered a free replacement.

 

Anyhow. I bought a used FA with a known shutter fault about 10 or 12 years ago. It was cheap enough to take a risk on it being repairable.... or so I thought.

 

The innards of the camera are a repairer's worst nightmare. No way was I going to spend about 3 days solid trying to dismantle it to expose the faulty shutter solenoids; probably only to find they were unrepairable anyway.

 

So I gained a rather nice-looking paperweight for my trouble.

Ho hum! :oops:

As I said-Nikkormat EL.

 

At the risk of hijacking yet another thread... Come again, Ben?

 

I've just had a look at the Nikkormat range on the Photography in Malaysia site and had a read of the manual, and I can't see any sign of camera-based aperture control on the EL. It supports both the bunny ears and stop-down metering (which is what I think Nikon should have done with the Df, as a minimum), but I thought that was the same as the main F range? I don't own any Nikon older than an F5 (lenses aside), so I may be missing something.

When Nikon introduced the FA in 1984, I was a graduate student, and I recall reading about this brand new matrix metering feature. I think the FA was in the $400+ range. At that time a fellow student had a full-time job, and he showed us his F3. I was quite impressed. The F3 was probably around $600 in that era. After I got my first job, I bought an FE2 and it was $300+ in 1987. Somehow I thought the FE2 would be the best camera for the rest of my life, silly me.

 

Ben, I am afraid the real issue is that you keep on using these "ancient" cameras that are not in very good condition. :rolleyes:

 

I bought the F3HP in 1983 for $460. When the FA was introduced it was selling for more than $400. The F3 was $600 at introduction but price dropped fast. After 85 I think the price went up.

I've just had a look at the Nikkormat range on the Photography in Malaysia site and had a read of the manual, and I can't see any sign of camera-based aperture control on the EL. It supports both the bunny ears and stop-down metering (which is what I think Nikon should have done with the Df, as a minimum), but I thought that was the same as the main F range? I don't own any Nikon older than an F5 (lenses aside), so I may be missing something.

 

The EL has aperture priority AE. You just move the shutter speed dial to the "A" position, set the aperture on the lens, and off you go.

 

Aside from the fact that it's the larger/heavier Nikkormat type body, its handling is virtually identical to the FE. It has a match-flag type meter on the left side of the viewfinder with the available shutter speeds marked. In manual mode, the green flag points to the set shutter speed and the needle points to the suggested shutter speed. In auto mode, the green flag drops out of the way and the needle points to the speed the camera has picked. It also has timed speeds out to 4 seconds.

 

The Nikon EL2(note Nikon, not Nikkormat) is effectively the same camera. The main functional difference is that it works with AI lenses and has a flip-up tab for non-AI. On a more technical level, it has a silicon metering cell(the EL is CdS) and has timed speeds out to 8 seconds.

Ben, I am afraid the real issue is that you keep on using these "ancient" cameras that are not in very good condition. :rolleyes:

 

Shun, when I switched to Nikon, one of my motivations was that I could use relatively "modern" lenses on older cameras. I enjoy using a nice, small and basic camera like the FM/FE series(or a tank like the F2)-especially when I can toss it in my bag with my D800 and use at least some of the same lenses(like the excellent 105mm 2.8D Micro I was using for most of the roll in question). I tend to buy nice condition ones, although admit that I'll take a chance on cheap ones. This particular FA was an Ebay purchase, but for all intents and purposes looked to be lightly used and well taken care of. It was on the low end of current market prices, but not particularly cheap. I think I ended up paying close to $150 for it with 50mm f/1.8 AI-S. When I received it, I did all my usual checks plus some FA-specific ones I've been advised of(i.e. looking for problems with DOF preview). The shutter speeds all tested within 1/3 stop, and most were within 1/6. I threw new light seals in it and didn't have any reason to think I'd have issues with it.

 

In any case, I've never had a bit of trouble with an FM2n, and I have three of them. I know you'd probably call those "ancient" but I've never had a bit of trouble with one.

I actually like the way the Df handle pre AI lenses than stop down metering (of course the best is to provide the rabbit ear coupling to that it would work just like pre AI cameras).

In manual mode I don't often use the meter so it doesn't really matter.

In A mode I normally don't change the aperture much. I shot the entire wedding using f/8 and f/5.6. It provide a nice way to do EC without using the EC controls at all.

In stop down metering in A mode I would have to push the DOF button before releasing the shutter with every shot. I can't leave the lens stopped down because I can't focus at f/5.6 or f/8.0.

Ah, thanks Ben. I was confused by thinking that you were talking about the EE attachments for the F2 (DS1, DS2, DS12) that allow shutter priority - I've now worked out you were talking about the Photomic meter's attachment to the shutter speed dial. The original EL (unlike the EL2) isn't on KR's compatibility list, so it doesn't show up as metering wide open with pre-AI lenses - whereas the EL2 has an AI follower ring but no bunny ears attachment, so it has to stop down meter. So you're quite right (as far as I know), the original EL is the only Nikon that has an integrated aperture-priority auto-exposure setting that works with pre-AI lenses without stopping down. I've learned something. :-)

 

Agreed, BeBu, for the "ultimate" compatibility there would have to be something coupling to the rabbit ears. But that would cost money, and I understand Nikon choosing not to do it on the Df. What I don't understand is why stop-down metering, which has been an acceptable workaround with pre-AI lenses for everything from the F2 and EL2 to an F6 with an adapted ring, couldn't have been made to work on the Df. I'm happy for "more than one way to do it", but slightly moving the middle finger while shooting feels sufficiently non-onerous as an alternative to "don't change the aperture much" that it rankles that it wasn't made available as an option. Or it could have been automated (press the shutter and have the camera stop down before determining a shutter speed, like the FA - again, optional if you don't like the delay), but I guess that might not have worked with what I suspect is the shutter/mirror system from the D600. Again, I'm glad the Df exists, and I'm glad it has happy users, but it's not how I would have done it. :-) It sounds like I'd have been saying the same thing about the FA, in its time.

 

That said, I have many grumbles of varying degrees of seriousness about every Nikon body I've owned. They're getting slowly better, though.

 

(Latest update: I had a panic when I thought I couldn't open my D850's raw files. Fortunately I'd accidentally opened DxO Optics Pro instead of DxO Photo Lab, the replacement, and the D850 modules are only in the latter...)

Actually Nikon shouldn't have made the FA at all except that it was needed to answer Canon A-1. I don't know about the F6 but does the F6 work in matrix mode when in stop down metering? There is the Nikkormat EL and then the ELW also. So there were 2 Nikkormat with A mode. The EE aperture controls are available for the Nikon F2S, F2SB and F2AS so they are available for pre AI cameras as well. They are 3 different EE units for 3 different photomic finders.

There is the Nikkormat EL and then the ELW also.

 

I guess I don't think of the ELW so much as being a separate model-probably because I'm about 99% sure mine is an ELW(and I have the winder, although I don't remember if that came with it or if it came with one of my EL2s). In any case, aside from taking the winder the only other difference is that it goes to 8 seconds like the EL2.

I guess I don't think of the ELW so much as being a separate model-probably because I'm about 99% sure mine is an ELW(and I have the winder, although I don't remember if that came with it or if it came with one of my EL2s). In any case, aside from taking the winder the only other difference is that it goes to 8 seconds like the EL2.

You can not attach a winder to the EL. So you must have the ELW.

I bought the F3HP in 1983 for $460. When the FA was introduced it was selling for more than $400. The F3 was $600 at introduction but price dropped fast. After 85 I think the price went up.

In that era, my monthly income was like $850, working part time as a research assistant. None of those was affordable.

 

I thought when I got a real job, I would buy a Leica system with 3, 4 lenses ..., and then the AF era started.

 

Ben, I still own the FE I bought in 1978. I haven't used it recently but I believe it is still working fine. If you would like to use something from that era, the FM2 is probably the best choice, and you already have 3 of them? The FA is notorious to be problematic, and you are competing against collectors for the FM3a, which IMO has little advantage over the FM2 for actual photographers. On the other hand, if you just would like to play with old cameras, that is all fine, but camera problems and failures come with that territory.

Shun,

 

I do like playing with old cameras, but from a practical standpoint I agree that the FM2 is great(as is the FM). I'd like an FM3a but not at $500+. I have an FE and also an FE2(actually two of them-had to get them in black and chrome) and like them as well, but I find myself reaching for the FM2 for no other reason than preferring the match-diode readout.

 

The FA has the potential to be a great camera for no other reason than the meter, although in practice I have tens of thousands of frames(including several thousand transparencies) that are perfectly exposed and were taken with either a CWA meter, a partial meter(Canon's equivalent to what Nikon calls a spot meter-12% of the frame), or even no meter(medium format). Knowing how to apply exposure compensation as well as locking exposure and recomposing(I do the latter more often) is second nature when you do it all the time-something which I'm sure you know-and I do it often enough that my skills are still sharp. Funny enough, I actually still do the lock and recompose dance with digital(and also with autofocus) as I'd rather not forget and leave the exposure compensation dial set to a funny setting.

 

With all of that said, even though the FM and FE are technically probably better cameras, I still prefer the F2-especially the F2SB and F2AS. Among other things, I like the big viewfinder and I also like that all the information is at the bottom of the frame rather than scattered around like in the FM/FE series(the FM and FM2 are especially annoying with the meter on the right, shutter speed on the left, and aperture on the bottom). The F3HP is better for me since I wear glasses, although I hate the piddly little LCD that's difficult to see at night(even with the illuminator). Of course, the FA has the same read-out but is impossible to read at night since it doesn't have the light(yes, I also have a DL-1 for my F2 Photomics and F2As). BTW, at in the 1/90 to 1/2000 range I RARELY see an F2 shutter that's off by an appreciable amount. About the worst I'll see is 1/2 stop at 1/2000, and generally within 1/6 stop and 1/90.

 

I guess ultimately that leads me to the F4, which I love as a both a manual focus camera and as AF(that can use my AF-S and G lenses) but even in the MB-20 4-cell configuration it's also big and heavy.

 

This may be heresy, but what I REALLY wish I could get is a Canon New F-1 in F mount :) . After owning nearly every mass-produced manual focus body Nikon has made(I don't have an FM3a, some of the Nikkormat models, the FG-20, FE-10, some of the F2 prism variations, and probably one or two others I'm forgetting) I've yet to find a one that-on the whole-I like as well as the New F-1. The F2 is probably closest, but there are a few things it does better than the New F-1(real MLU for one) and a few things it does worse(built-in meter illuminator with the most informative match needle I've ever used, long timed speeds, mechanical high speeds).

In that era, my monthly income was like $850, working part time as a research assistant. None of those was affordable.

 

I thought when I got a real job, I would buy a Leica system with 3, 4 lenses ..., and then the AF era started.

 

Ben, I still own the FE I bought in 1978. I haven't used it recently but I believe it is still working fine. If you would like to use something from that era, the FM2 is probably the best choice, and you already have 3 of them? The FA is notorious to be problematic, and you are competing against collectors for the FM3a, which IMO has little advantage over the FM2 for actual photographers. On the other hand, if you just would like to play with old cameras, that is all fine, but camera problems and failures come with that territory.

 

You are certainly wiser that I am. I didn't make much more money than you were working full time but I had the NAS back then. My first camera I bought in 77 and I paid $550 for the F2AS body and $150 for the 50mm f/1.4. I intended to ad the MD2/MB1 combo but I decided to go with the F3 and the MD4 because at $750 for both they were cheaper than the F2 motor drive at $800 and I got an extra camera. My F2AS got stolen in 84 and I missed it very much. By 86 and got so broke so I sold everything including my color darkroom. I bought a Minolta SRT-101 with 3 lenses used for $45 and I used them until 2002 when I bought the F5. In 2002 I thought I wanted an F3HP again but the price of the F3HP was $1300 and with the MD4 it's about the same as the $1950 I paid for the F5. I didn't want to go digital then because there were no full frame DSLR then and I think the film was a bit better than the then 6MP cameras. I went on and got my full darkroom again so I was kind of stuck with film for a while. When the D3 was introduced I wanted it but it was kind of expensive for me.

and aperture on the bottom

Must all be special edition FM/FE/FM2/FE2 bodies then - the ADR is on the top of the viewfinder for each one I've ever used.:D

I owned two FA bodies for a few years (with their MD-15 motor drives) - neither has given me any problems.

Must all be special edition FM/FE/FM2/FE2 bodies then - the ADR is on the top of the viewfinder for each one I've ever used.:D

I owned two FA bodies for a few years (with their MD-15 motor drives) - neither has given me any problems.

 

You got me :) . I had the F2A on my mind when I wrote that :)

 

BTW, as much as I love the F100, I wish it had ADR. It would be nice if you got it also if you plunk down $2600 for an F6...

 

Granted ADR has its issues, but it mostly works. Going back to my New F-1 comments-Canon did put an ADR-type system in place but it's pretty limited in application. It's only present on the AE prism and only opens when aperture priority is engaged(manual mode doesn't need it as the meter "lollipop" indicates the set aperture). Also, it will only work with Canon brand "new" FD mount lenses, and not with 3rd party or older Canon-brand breech lock lenses.