New Nikon Scanners V & 5000 (9000 later)

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by og, Oct 28, 2003.

  1. og

    og

    Just to let you know that Nikon has updated its line of scanners :
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1067358499.html

    I know that a lot of people are waiting for this news, so... : )
     
  2. Anybody want to buy my FS4000?... Anybody?
     
  3. Hardly major advances on the ones they replace - if they solve the banding problem on the LS8000 it would be worth a look.
     
  4. The 5000 has a two-line CCD, so we can now expect banding on the 35 mm scanner as well (the 4000 didn't have this problem). Or maybe they actually calibrated both rows, let's hope they did.

    Looks like the major advancement was in scan speed, not depth of field. Too bad. Dont' get me wrong, I really like my LS-4000, but it would be nice to get sharp corners.
     
  5. Ilkka, you seem to have made a lot of conclusions about these new scanners already before they're available. Maybe it's a good idea to wait a few months until the first users can give feedback about how these new scanners perform.
     
  6. Speed is good, I don't want to grow old when scanning. It remains to be seen how the 5000 will try to match the Minolta 5400 in image quality. However, at these resolutions the main battle will be in dynamic range.
     
  7. I was trying to be sarcastic, sorry. I haven't made any conclusions about the new scanners. As I said, I really like my 4000, but I'd like to see consistent edge-to-edge sharpness which they do now advertise, so maybe there is an improvement. It's just that scan speed and quality tend to be inversely related. Basic physics. In this case they increased the complexity of the system by adding a second CCD row, which if properly calibrated should be good.
    I'm genuinely worried about the fact that they try to make ever faster scanners, as if they tried to have film compete with digital capture in operational speed. The current scan time is 40 s which is faster than the time it takes for me to save the file and load it in photoshop, so it's not really a limiting factor. The time required to make the file printable is a lot longer.
    Still, I am looking for an opportunity to buy a medium format scanner at some point, and I'm glad that they make new scanners so that there is a good choice available when my time comes.
     
  8. I can't speak for those of you in the market for Nikon's professional level scanners, but as someone who's been leaning toward a Canon FS4000, the CoolScan V is a huge step forward from the IV-ED and even the Canon. It also appears poised to knock the socks off the FS4000 in everything but price.

    The step up to 4,000-dpi scanning at Nikon's entry level satisfies the concerns of us who wanted more pixels to take full advantage of a 13x19-inch printer without having to "stretch" pixels. And the 38-second scan time -- a big advance over the IV-ED -- is otherworldly compared to the FS4000, which has had users reporting 5-, 10- and even 20-minute scan times.

    I hadn't heard of the new-generation Digital ICE4 before, but I wonder if it will produce less softening than the earlier version. The new Digital DEE, or Dynamic Exposure Enhancer, is also an intriguing new element for supposedly getting more detail out of dense areas. But one of the best new features for us Mac users is that it has a FireWire interface, as well as USB 2.0 for the Windows folks.

    The UK site lists it at 550 pounds (monetary, not weight!), which translates to around $900, according to an internet converter. That's steep, but probably worth it rather than waiting around for the Canon to slog through my negs.

    Here's the Nikon Japan link for more detailed info about the new line. http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/index_e.htm
     
  9. Jon,
    I don't think that the Coolscan V ED has Firewire.<br>
    The "Specifications" section only explicitly mentions USB 2.0.<br>
    Only the section about "system requirements for Nikon Scan 4" refers to this software supporting the firewire interface.<br>
    The same holds for the Super Coolscan 5000 ED.<br>
    The Super Coolscan 9000 ED seems to have firewire, but no USB.
     
  10. C'mon Jon

    The Canon web page says the minimum scanning time at 4000dpi is 48 seconds. I'm sure the Nikon is faster than Canon but the Nikon quote of 38 seconds must be waporware in real life as are the DMAXes of various scanners. I hope I'm wrong though.
     
  11. My LS-4000 scans a slide in 37 seconds. Doesn't seem to be vaporware.
     
  12. "I don't think that the Coolscan V ED has Firewire .... Only the
    section about 'system requirements for Nikon Scan 4' refers to
    this software supporting the firewire interface."

    Jos, you're right. Thanks. Rats.

    As for "vaporware," Vesa's right to be skeptical of manufacturers'
    claims. Nikon does, after all, claim that the IV-ED has a full res
    scan time of 42 seconds without dust removal, and Canon
    claims 48 seconds for the FS4000.

    Imaging Resource, in its thorough reviews of both those
    scanners, timed the IV-ED at 2 minutes 28 seconds for a full res,
    dust removal scan. They clocked the Canon at 12 minutes 45
    seconds (!) for a full res, dust removal scan, not to mention the 1
    minute calibration time when you first turn it on.

    Interestingly, Canon says the 48 seconds are "scan time only,
    data transfer and image showing times not included." That's like
    the Post Office saying they process letters in an hour, but getting
    them to your mailbox may take longer.
     
  13. og

    og

    I can get a full scan (5400dpi) in 65s with the Minolta Elite 5400. But No! Really, I prefer to just sit there and watch it scanning slowly for 10 minutes or more. So much fun! First, I thought it was because I was crazy, but I saw in forums that a lot of people do the same. I still believe that I am crazy, but at least I know that I am not alone... : )
     
  14. stb

    stb

    Putting only one type of interface (USB or FireWire) is ridiculous. We're talking of
    expensive scanners, with the 5000 clearly aimed at pros. Lots of those people use
    Mac's and most don't yet have an USB 2 interface.

    Why does Nikon cut itself from a part of its potential customers ?

    In my case, it's not too bad, the only one I would have considered is the 9000 anyway,
    but still, I find that cost cutting a bit dumb.
     
  15. Hello! Does anyone know when it will hit the market???

    Regards, Phil
    http://www.philipp-guenther.de
     
  16. Am I the only one that still thinks that SCSI is still the benchmark standard? USB is for toys IMO...
     
  17. There is $200 rebate for Nikon Coolscan IV till 12/31/2003 - effectively lowering the price to about $350. I wonder if this is a good buy considering the speed and 2900dpi scan. Or should I wait till Coolscan V is available? I have considered Canon FS4000 but it is too slow to be practical.

    francis
     
  18. Any idea when these scanners will be available in the US? They have announced it pretty much everywhere but here (Canada, Europe, Japan, Malaysia, etc). I'm interested to see how they price it in the US market.
     
  19. Yes, no firewire, but since I can get a USB2.0 card for $30, that isn't killing me. Price
    was the equivalent of US $540 in Japan (online retailer)--about $80 less than the
    Minolta 5400 from the same seller. It went on sale on a Saturday and it arrived on
    Wednesday, so there wasn't a huge wait. I don't have another recent film scanner for
    comparison, but I've been looking into getting one for a year and was about to
    pounce on the Minolta 5400, and in the scans I've done so far on my Nikon, the depth
    into the shadows has astounded me, with no banding and less noise than I've seen in
    similar shadows in people's reviews of the 5400, FS4000, and previous Nikons. But
    since I don't have any of those and can't scan the same image on them to compare,
    all that means is that the shadow depth and cleanness of the shadows is impressive.
    Seems like the big differences in moving up to the Coolscan 5000 are 16 bit A/D
    converter instead of 14 bit, which will only make a difference if the rest of the scanner
    puts out an image with a dynamic range greater than the 4.2 that 14 bits allows (not
    only has no one else done that yet, but everything I've read says that the film itself
    doesn't even come close to 4.2), greater speed, Firewire (spend $30 on a USB2.0 card
    to make up the difference), and--and this is the big one for you pros--the ability of
    the 5000 to take the whole-roll film adapter and bulk slide loader accessories. For
    half the price, it seems to come pretty close to its big brother.

    Wow--I didn't know anyone out there was mourning SCSI. I loved the speed, but
    damn was it temperamental, especially about power fluctuations.
     
  20. To my surprise, Nikon lists the 5000 on its german web site for EUR 1399,-, the 4000 still for EUR 1.939,-. So in the pricing it does not look like an upgrade. This might be caused by a more efficient production process but could mean cheaper build as well - any comments?

    Best regards
    Torsten
     
  21. I just acquired a Nikon Coolscan 5000 and am very pleased with results.

    Scans are accurate and B&W is of excellent quality, very important to me as I do about 3/4 of my shots in B&W.

    I previously owned an LS-2000 and there really is no comparison between the two (Completely different leagues).

    Speed with the Coolscan 5000 is also very impressive. It basically scans a 16-bit image as quickly as I can:

    1. Recrop image in Photoshop 2. Use the Channel Mixer to convert to B&W from colour scan 3. Resave image in another format (ie smaller JPEG from original TIFF scan)

    This is great as I have no waiting time and I can work as it scans.

    Need to wait for more in depth review to see how compares to 4000ED but presumably better in terms of Dmax and speed.

    Apparently need a good amount of memory to scan and use Photoshop simultaneously. I have a Pentium 3Ghz and 1Go of RAM and it certainly isn't too much.

    Mark
     
  22. ...and how did I arrive at this conclusion ? <p>

    1. Same CCD. Nikon says "newly developed 2-line CCD" for the ls 5000,
    but only "high quality CCD" for the coolscan V. <br>

    2. Same dynamic range (4.2, vs 4.8 (gasp) for the ls 5000 )<br>
    3. Nearly same scanning speed (38s or so)<br>
    4. Same resolution.<p>

    I believe the coolscan V is basically a stripped down LS 4000 at a lower price. ( Just what they are doing with the D70 ).
     
  23. Hello

    Has anyone compared the new Coolscan V with the old LS 4000 ?
    How would a new V rate against a second-hand 4000 ?

    Cheers

    Loic
    www.ultimedia.com.au
     
  24. Mark
    Where did you get your ls5000. Where you satisfied with doing buisness with the company

    Dwight
     
  25. Just went to a store to get 4000. They had only IV and 5000. Walked out cause never heard of 5000... But now theese USB and times depth are too tempting. Where to get 5000?!
     
  26. Hi,

    By the way I had a burglary at home this Monday and the fellow took away my LS2000 Scanner! (That's the only thing missing so far). I would not know what he'd do with it anyway without SCSI adapters and cables.

    What IS the difference between Coolscan V and Coolscan 5000?
    What does a poor man do when confronted with those two models?

    Navendu
     
  27. Hello Navendu,

    Well the Coolscan V is really a dressed down version of the LS-5000. Output is 14 bits (LS-5000:16 bits) and it uses a single line CCD (LS-5000: 2 lines, almost twice as fast), Dmax is 4.2 (LS-5000: 4.8!)
    And last but not least, the Coolscan V does NOT support the SF-210
    slide feeder. After reading Nikon's press release about the Coolscan V (www.nikon-image.com/eng/news_release/2003/ls50ed.htm ) I sold my LS-20 via E-bay and ordered a Coolscan V & the SF-210 feeder just to get this kind of error message :'This scanner does not support the adapter that is currently inserted!'
    Now I have the choice, sending back the SF-210 or sending back the Coolscan V and upgrade to a LS-5000 =$$$$!
    Although I'm not too happy with this I have to tell that the Coolscan V is much better than the LS-20, one even starts to think about rescanning my 5000 slides :)
     
  28. Well the Coolscan V is really a dressed down version of the LS-5000
    Somehow I doubt that. It has very little in common with the CS 5000 except perhaps the new lens and ICE4. On the other hand all its specs are nearly identical to the CS 4000. I think the CS V is basically the LS 4000 without batch scanning.
     
  29. For those that use the older Nikon Scanners - try downloading Nikon Scan 4 - I for one found a tremendous improvement in scanned results on my Coolscan 4000 ED
     

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