Need help selecting a system for teaching and professional use

<p>Hi all. Thanks in advance for reading this, and any help you can offer. I know this has been asked before, but I have a slight wrinkle to add. I mostly shoot digital, various Nikon DSLRs. But I do the testing for a lot of the new equipment that comes into my camera store (we like to show the customers 'real' photos taken with the gear), and I also teach photography at my local community college. Suffice to say, I have handled a few cameras in my day.</p>

<p>Usually my technique for studio work (always with remote flash triggering) is to shoot something I like on digital, treat that camera as a Polariod back, and capture the same image on film with a medium-format camera. When I shoot film, it's almost always Ilford Pan F+ or FP5, usually developed semi-stand in Rodinal. The images do come out a little grainier than with the Perceptol I used to use, but I really like the tonal range and 'vibe' of the Rodinal. I also like that I can either scan or chemical print my negatives with no problems; all other developers I've tried either yielded ultra-contrasty scans, or low-contrast wet prints.</p>

<p>Well, I've ready to upgrade my camera. I would love a D3X, or even a D700, but the money just isn't there. Not only that, but I don't find the dynamic range quite to my liking. Sure it's better than the D300, but I don't want to invest in a multi-thousand dollar camera body that still gives me less range than what I already get. I'm looking to buy a new MF camera. I currently own a Yashicamat 124G which has done me well, but after using the Mamiya c330f my school owns most of the semester, I can't go back. I need bigger, better!</p>

<p>I was just going to buy my own c330f, but after doing a lot of reading I'm worried it might not be the best choice. I almost always shoot with 50mm or 85mm primes on the 35mm format cameras, or their equivalents in 120. So I'm really only concerned with how the 75mm/80mm and 120mm/130mm lenses perform. The c330f seemed to work great to me, but I've read plenty of comments about how one should, "Get a Mamiya TLR if they don't want to spend much." Those reviews all recommended Hassleblads and Mamiyas, with the occasional Contax. However, one of the things I liked about the c330f was the absence of mirror slap. Since I shoot handheld 95% of the time, that's a big deal for me. So here's what I need, and I'm hoping someone can help.</p>

<p>I need something with a larger negative. I also need something lightweight enough that I can handhold it without any issues. Obviously this is more important for 645 cameras than 6x6. I would like something without mirror slap for the same reason, but a sufficiently dampened mirror would be just fine. I wouldn't mind digital back compatibility, but it will be so long before I can justify buying one that it almost doesn't matter. Lastly, I only plan on owning a normal and a short telephoto lens, so no amount of awesome Distagons or Biogons or anything like that matters to me. Assuming those aren't Leica terms anyway. I also prefer a fairly shallow depth of field (I'll probably shoot around f/5.6 to f/11 most of the time), so tonal rendition and lens performance at wider apertures is more important to me than clinical or corner-to-corner sharpness. Oh, and it also has to be light enough that I can travel with it, so Pentax 6x7s are pretty much out.</p>

<p>So what would you guys get? I'm not looking to scrape the bottom of the barrel here, but I'm not going to spend too much. I'd say $600-$1000 is my range, possibly with a little more later if I can only get one lens for that price. If it helps, I'll toss in a link to my site, so you can see the kind of portraiture and lighting I'm doing. The site hasn't been updated in ages, so the recent c330f shots aren't on there :(</p>

<p>Thanks again to all of you in advance.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.zzoll.com/igallery/viewer.php?albid=5&stage=1&pn=1#tn">http://www.zzoll.com/igallery/viewer.php?albid=5&stage=1&pn=1#tn</a></p>

<p>you might be able to sneak in a Mamiya 6 with an 80/150 combo around the top end of that price - usually it's the 50 the commands more money. the Mamiya 220/330 can't be ruled out - the lenses are very good depending on which versions and for the to price, you could get several lenses. you also might look at the Bronica 645 rangefinder.<br>

I can' t think of anything in your price range that would get you easily into a digital back with maybe a Hasselblad 500cm but then you had better like the mirror clonk.<br>

ooh, just remembered, the rare Fuji BL690 ... old now so usually low-priced but interchangeable lenses and 6x9.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I have a pretty good line on old used pro gear (a friend owns a repair shop), so I can usually track down some decent gear for less than expected. I know I can get a Mamiya (most versions), or one of the less-expensive Hassys, Rollies, or other well-known guys. Not nearly mint of course, but well-maintained: that's how he got them :)</p>

<p>Is the slap on the Hassleblad 500-series bad enough to disrupt a handheld shot, or is it just obnoxious? Because I can deal with obnoxious, provided it doesn't affect image quality above, say, 1/60th of a second.</p>

<p>I don't actually expect digital back compatibility. That's one of those 'It'd be nice, but I don't really see it happening' types of things.</p>

<p>Zack, consider a Bronica SQ-A or SQ-Ai 6x6cm system. A complete range of high quality interchangable Zenzanon PS lenses and backs. The Zenzanon PS 80mm f/2.8 is excellent and pretty fast. It also offers a full system of pro accessories, quite hand holdable with the grip and, with your budget and careful shopping, you could flesh out a <em>very</em> decent system with money left over for a CLA and film. Being a SLR it does have a mirror but also a reliable mirror lock up function. One of the best deals in medium format today.<br>

The RB/RZ 67 is a very nice system too that is within your budget but much less hand holdable but great for the studio plus it's 6x7cm.</p>

<p>I think the mirror slap myth is a bit of urban legend esp when shooting handheld. What better material to absorb vibration than soft mushy flesh ?? Tripod mounted yes...metal is the perfect conductor of vibrations, your hands are the perfect absorber of vibrations. Look at this Hasslebald video

I have been testing with a Pentax 67 for a few months one of the worst offenders if you read forums much. I have been able to make what I consider good quality images down to 1/15 sec handheld.<br>

Rent an SLR do some testing judge for yourself</p>

 

<p>Zack, I've read your post a couple of times and if I'm reading it right you're looking for something handholdable with a negative larger than 6X6 (because your Yashica is already a 6X6), and you're on a budget. Wow, that was a long sentence. Anyway, might I suggest you consider one of the 4X5 Graphic's. The negatives much larger and they're made to be handheld. I think a nice one can be had for a decent price and film is pretty easy to get. If you get any other MF camera with a negative of less than 6X7, I don't see where your really gaining anything over your Yashica.</p>

<p>Zack,<br>

If I were in your shoes, I would consider a better TLR like Rollei. But if you're looking for larger than 6x6, I think that Speed Graphic suggestion is worth a shot.<br>

I like your portrait page, but it leaves me wondering... does that crab claw have bluetooth?</p>

<p>Some people here have reported good results from handholding RB67s (better that Hasselblad), so if you haven't tried holding one (they weigh circa 6 lbs.), you might want to see if you could live with that. Price for an RZ kit (back, body, lens, waist level finder) at one of the DC suburb stories was circa $800 recently, RBs kits would be cheaper yet. </p>

<p>RB's have wonderfully damped mirrors, handholding and mirror slap is a non issue, if in good condition/properly serviced.</p>

<p>If I'm understanding you correctly you're wanting higher quality than what you've been getting from 6x6, which means 6x7 or larger. The smallest and easiest to handhold 6x7 slr is the Pentax. The Mamiya RB/RZ is bulkier but more flexible for studio work on a tripod, and the RB II/RZ optics are better than the Pentax. The Mamiya 7 rangefinder is an excellent system with the best lenses ever made for MF, but they are also very expensive and, of course, have the usual limitations of a rangefinder as compared to a slr. </p>

<p>But there is one other 6x7 system most forget, or don't know, about, the 6x7 Koni-Omega, which comes in either a rangerfinder or TLR version. The lenses are excellent, better than the Pentax--I know as I've owned both--though not quite as good as the Mamiya 7. Nor are they very expensive with the body, back and 90mm lens usually going for less than $300 on Ebay.</p>

<p>The only other alternative I know of is the 6x9 Crown Graphic. The advantages are light weight, small size, low price, and some movements. You also have the option of many different lenses to choose from. It can be handheld but the rangefinder can only be coupled to the standard 100-105mm normal lens, so a tripod is best.</p>

 

<p>Wow, thanks for all the responses guys!</p>

<p>David: My reason for wanting to replace the Yashica lies in the lenses, and not in the film size. While my Yashicamat used to do me just fine, after using the c330f and a bunch of black-series lenses, I saw the contrast and resolution my film *could* have, and now I want it all the time!</p>

<p>Tung: Actually, he was thinking Bluetooth when he put the claw behind his ear. One of those little 'I wish' shots, really. I wish I thought to ask him to take off, or at least unbutton and pull down, his shirt. It's a neat photo, but I think the modern shirt collar keeps it from looking "period."</p>

<p>So here's what I think I've narrowed it down too, after a lot of research. I don't usually print larger than 16x20, so I don't "need" a massive negative. Obviously getting my own Mamiya TLR is an option since I know it works for me, and I could potentially travel with a 220 (or even a non-f 330) and a few lenses, in addition to my DSLR, without killing my back. The Mamiya RB/RZ cameras look good too, although I'm much less likely to travel with them.</p>

<p>My friend with the repair shop says he has a line on a Hasselblad 500 EL in fantastic shape. I know it takes funky batteries (assuming he has the adaptor), but it's nothing I don't have easy access to. It's a much older camera, and the lens currently attached to it obviously lacks the more modern coatings of some of the other cameras mentioned here. However, he says the owner is only looking for $300 for it, and it's in almost perfect mechanical shape.</p>

<p>I see a lot of 500 ELs going for (relative) peanuts in ebay and other places, mostly because we all expect them to be beat to hell by now. But I could potentially get one of these and have more money to put into some nice Zeiss glass ... and of course, my tech assures me this one is in excellent shape. It doesn't look like the motor drive is removable though, and that thing is a really good way to add weight that, at the speed I work, doesn't really provide anything I need to have.</p>

<p>Do you guys think I should bite? Otherwise, I think I'm going to go to the next couple camera club meetings and shows, and see if I can toss around some of these heavier cameras mentioned without dislocating my shoulders.</p>

<p>Zack,<br /> $300 is pretty steep for an EL, the mechanics of the EL are stouter than the C, they hold up to heavy use quite a bit better. Battery issue is a non issue, use a 9v battery with a homemade or bought adapter, problem solved. I have two fairly new NiMH batteries that came with mine, I prefer the 9v approach.<br /> To give you an idea of pricing, KEH has 500 EL/M with waistlevel finder, battery, charger in EX condition (KEH's excellent is everybody elses mint) for $189 for Black, $225 for Chrome. I have seen EL/m In BGN condition for around the $100 mark recently from them. (I tend to buy BGN grade personally). For around the $300 mark you can buy a much newer 553ELX for $339, uses AA batteries and has the gliding mirror system for longer lenses.<br>

If you've decided on the Hassy system, get a copy of Wildi's "The Hasselblad Manual" (fourth or fifth edition, not the latest) and another good reference is the "Hasselblad Compendium", helps make sense of the odds and ends, as well as decoding for sale ads that have the part number listed and little else.</p>

 

<p>Erie: $300 sure would be awful steep. I forgot to mention that includes the finder, film back, and the original 80mm lens too. That kind of makes a difference :) Obviously the lens is old as dirt and will lack modern coatings, but ...<br>

My thought was that if you guys told me the Hasselblad 500 EL was a solid, workable camera, I'd pick this one up after I got a chance to handle it. Then I could buy a nice Sonnar/Tessar/etc. later, and upgrade the body probably around late summer.</p>

<p>That tired, old as dirt, lacking modern coatings lens will shock you, if you shade it properly. I still find my original non T* 80mm C lens to be my favorite. For $300, I'd jump on it. Just be sure to get or make a 9V adapter and you'll be all set.</p>