Need advise to upgrade to canon 6d

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by dennis_labao, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. Hello first off i apologized if this is the wrong forum to ask. I am currently using a 70d for 2 years now and i feel i am ready to go full frame now although i am not a pro and not even near to it still a hobbyist but anyway my main shoots are just everyday life , street photography, travel , portraiture of family's and friends but most of all every time i have the chance i love shooting landscape but that's only on travels and holidays ( day-off and weekend ), but on occasions sometimes i am ask to shoots birthdays and christening ( paid of course but you know just a little ) and i I've done a couple of studio set up but i have a semi pro with me when i did the shoot, i do shoot low light sometimes or more often than that when the situations calls for it , and lastly i dont shoot video.
    Now lately as i am gradually understand this art of photography ( or simply saying that now i am getting a little better that i am noticing how bad i am ) i noticed that some of my photos are not entirely tact sharp i know its me and not the camera. i shoot raw and on manual mode even when i first bought my 70d and it didnt take long for me to understand the proper exposure but like i said some of my photos are not exactly tact sharp particularly when shooting portrait and its making me very uncomfortable and sometimes making me loose confidence on myself knowing it may have been me and not the camera but as im doing my research i couldn't help but notice the issue on the 70d particularly the center focus, that is when it came to me that maybe it wasn't just me.
    So now im thinking to go full frame and the closest that i could afford right now is the 6d and for me to even get it is to sell my 70d and some of my lens w/c is the 18-135 stm , 10-22, 50mm 1.4 and another kit lens from my previous 1100d. I would still have my tamron 24-70 f2.8 vc and tamron 70-200 f2.8 vc for me to use if i would get the 6d
    Now the only thing that is stopping me to go to 6d and this is the advised that i am seeking is that, is all that consideration enough to merit to get the 6d ? and im also extremely concern about the 1/4000 shutter speed of the 6d knowing that i have 2 lenses which can go at f2.8, if i ever used it on broad daylight on f2.8 im thinking that 1/4000 may not be enough to cut it. The 11 AF points and only one being crossed type i think i could lived with having read some reviews that it is a very good center focus unless someone here says otherwise. I wont even bothered by the 1/180 sync speed as i know nothing about it although i did mention that i've done a studio type set up with 2 strobes lighting but like i said i have a semi pro at that time and he did all the set up all i did is shoot. But i would appreciate even more if someone here would explain it to me what the 1/180 sync speed is of the 6d and will it be a problem if i ever do a studio type shoot again.
    I know that the 6d mkII is due some time next year or atleast that is what the rumor is saying but today and next year is still a lot of time and every time i shoot portraiture and sees a couple of blurry ones, it just kills me.
    Thank you very much and sorry if took so many words to explain my situation and i really hoped someone here would help me.
    Cheers.
     
  2. The 70D is a fine camera. I had a 40D since 2007 and just recently upgraded to a 6D.

    I really like the 6D. It is simple without a lot of extra frills, does not have the high number of autofocus points or frame rate, but that is no handicap. It is affordable and does what I want, and does it well. Don't be swayed by the many complainers about lack of features.

    It is very rare that I take a photo even at 1/2500 of a second. Never took one at 1/4000, and a shutter speed of 1/8000 would not be possible unless you have a high ISO setting. Generally, the high ISO setting you would not use during bright daylight.
     
  3. If your photos are not tack sharp, and you know that's you, then changing cameras won't help. Your 70D will take superb
    shots if your technique allows. Best advice is to work on this.

    As to the 6D, two things I would not regard as frills that your 70D has are the built-in flash - so useful for fill-in for portraits
    - and the fold-out screen.

    As for changing to full frame, have a look at Sarah Fox's website: graphic-fusion.com
     
  4. What advantages would a full frame camera bring you? You state you want to 'upgrade' to full frame, but full frame is just a larger sensor - it is not necessarily an upgrade, for many it is 'side-grade'. It depends a lot on your photography whether the advantages of full frame really come into play or not - if not, it is just more expensive. Before spending money (and loosing your wide angle lens), I'd check much better if this move would really benefit. Else it ends up being wasted money.
    If your images aren't sharp today, switching to a camera with slightly inferior AF system isn't going to improve your chances. A camera with more shallow depth of field is also not going to help. So, if anything, the camera may make you struggle as much, or more.
    I'd spend more time on understanding why your images are not as sharp as you want before buying anything. Frankly, I wouldn't blame the problem on a camera issue unless I can prove it, the chances of operator error are just a lot larger.
    (for what it's worth, I do have benefit of having 1/8000th; use f/2 in broad, open daylight at ISO200: calculate from sunny 16, and you'll find yourself at 1/6400th.)
     
  5. You should be able to continue to use your EF 50/1.4 on a 6D, though I expect you will be somewhat disappointed if you want to use it near WO on the FF sensor, so probably better to sell it anyway.
    I too would be concerned about the 1/4000 shutter limitation. I frequently exceed 1/4000 when shooting in daylight, especially near WO. However, how important that is is really determined by what/how you shoot.
    the 1/180 sync limitation can be a problem, especially if you are trying to freeze motion in a studio shoot (like dancers frozen mid leap, or something similar). If not, say you are just doing portraiture, it's not that big a deal usually, but some studio photogs really get bothered by it.
     
  6. Don't worry about the 1/4000 sec: this is a completely trivial issue. Look around and see how many great cameras are limited to 1/4000 sec or even 1/1000. The 1/180 flash sync versus the 1/200 of ifs even more unimportant (1/20th sec difference!). The 6D is great value at the moment and its only slightly larger than the 70D. You will be able to shoot at f2.8 in full sun with 1/4000 sec. You can put the camera on ISO 50 no problem. If you had f1.4 lenses then, occasionally, you might have an issue, but you don't, and even if you did, it would be one shot in 10,000. These are "internet babble" worries in my opinion.
     
  7. i feel i am ready to go full frame now​
    Why? What do you think it will get you? yes, FF cameras have some advantages (and disadvantages). I have both, and I often chose the FF. But unless you are doing something that takes advantage of the format--printing very large, for example, or shooting in very low light--you aren't likely to notice much difference. You might not notice any difference at all. The honest answer is that in many cases, it doesn't matter.
    It sounds from your note that the biggest barrier you face is technique. Full frame will do nothing to help that, and if your photos are not tack-sharp, it certainly won't help to switch to a camera with a less capable AF system.
     
  8. Couldn't find a question in there as my eyes got lost after the third line or so. I will say the 70D and 6D make a great team: similar size, control layout and feel and the abilities of the two cameras complement one another well. I often shoot with a wide zoom on the 6D and a tele zoom on the 70D. Of course the 70D is better for video, moving subjects and telephoto use and the 6D excels at low light, wide angle and landscapes. Can't go wrong with these two in your bag.
     
  9. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    . . . i noticed that some of my photos are not entirely tact sharp . . . particularly when shooting portrait . . . im doing my research i couldn't help but notice the issue on the 70d particularly the center focus, that is when it came to me that maybe it wasn't just me . . . now im thinking to go full frame . . . 6d and for me to even get it is to sell my 70d and some of my lens w/c is the 18-135 stm , 10-22, 50mm 1.4 and another kit lens from my previous 1100d. I would still have my tamron 24-70 f2.8 vc and tamron 70-200 f2.8 vc for me to use if i would get the 6d.​
    In summary –
    1. Your REASONS for buying a 6D:
    a) some of the images from the 70D are not Tack Sharp, particularly Portrait Shots
    b) you’ve researched to find that there is ‘an issue’ with the Centre-focus on the 70D
    2. To buy a 6D you’ll need to sell:
    a) the 70D
    b) the 18 to 135 STM
    c) the 10 to 22
    d) another EF-S Kit Lens (probably 18 to 55)
    d) possibly the 50/1.4
    3. You’ll then have kit comprising:
    a) 6D
    b) 24 to 70/2.8
    c) 70 to 200/2.8
    d) possibly 50/1.4
    ***
    Comments on each point:
    Point 1.
    I’d be certain that there is an “issue” with the 70D's Centre-point AF, before I used that as the only reason for selling it. I consider that I would lose two very useful lenses 18 to 135 & 10 to 22.
    I would integrate the 70D and the Out of Focus Images - perhaps post some images with full EXIF and the members here might assist with that diagnosis
    I would interrogate the integrity of the ‘sources’ which proclaim that there is ‘an issue’ with the70D’s Centre-point AF.
    Points 2. & 3.
    A 6D with the two (possibly three) remaining lenses, is not as flexible a kit compared to the 70D and the six lenses that you presently have: the most obvious is the lack of very Wide Angle FoV and very Telephoto FoV.
    ***
    Your recent post is very similar to your previous post, a year ago. Considering both these conversations that you have started, it occurs to me that there is a persistence for you to move to ‘full-frame,’ no matter what.
    It is important to understand and appreciate that your journey is: YOUR journey. If you feel very strongly that a 6D and those remaining two (or three) lenses will move your Photography forward, then you should do exactly that: and then learn as much as you can from that experience.
    WW
     
  10. Thank you very much. I am quite pleased with all the advised that was given and i do take it all in serious consideration when making my decision , and for now i think i would stick with my 70d and worked to sharpen my technique. No i am not making these as an excuse to go full frame , before i found out that some ( not all ) of my shots weren't tact sharp i was completely happy with my 70d and see no reason to go FF but seeing i have a blurry picture sometimes i just thought that maybe jumping to FF would solved that hence me asking for an advised and getting it and im really appreciative for all your advised that there is no reason for me to get the 6d.
    But truth be told i have to admit there is an itch in me to go FF as Mr.William W. pointed out that there is a persistence in me to moved to a FF ( i have completely forgotten about my first post ). But please do not get me wrong as i am still under the impression that a FF would give me a better image quality than what i am using right now. I am still very young when it comes to photography and i value the advised of all season photographers, that is why i am convinced right now to stick with my 70d and sharpen my techniques, although i feel that i can very well sharpen my skill and technique even better on a FF but i am convinced now that there is really no point in doing so.
    Thank you very much for those responses about the shutter and sync speed of the 6d i will keep those advised for my added knowledge and saying that, i wasn't aware that my canon 50mm f1.4 can be used on a FF camera thank you very much Mr. Marcus Ian for stating that, now that lens would be for keep now.
    Again thank you all for all your kind advised i guess i wont be jumping to go to a full frame ... at least not yet.
    Cheers.
     
  11. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    dennis,
    I think that you have a burning desire to develop and progress in your Photography, and I think that it is good that you identify that you have an "itch" to go full frame. Even better it is really good that you have taken a few moments to assess whether what you will lose will be worth what you will gain: especially when making such a big choice with limited funds - and I think it would be a big choice to have to the sell all those lenses and lose all that wide range of FoV just to buy a 6D.
    I reiterate the suggestion that you post one or two sample images and the EXIF data where you think that the 70D has not attained sharp focus. My experience is that many images where the Photographer considered that there was a camera error, upon later detailed interrogation it was shown that there were other factors that were the most likely cause.
    WW
     
  12. My 70D AF is excellent and pin sharp as long as I place the AF point on the place I want to be in focus. The 19-point auto select mode is rather useless as it often doesn't guess well as to where and what I want in focus. The best thing is to manually select your focus points. Also, among my 15 or so Canon lenses, at least half of then required user calibration (MA) for optimal sharpness. A MA of -7 to +10 is typical. My 6D is no different in this regard. Both yield close to 100% sharp images after calibration and careful placement of the AF point.
     
  13. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    There's virtually no likelihood, given what you've said, that using a full frame camera will give you sharper results. You will end up just as frustrated as you are now. If you want to know what will make your photos sharper instead of spending money on something that won't, follow William's advice and post a photo along with the EXIF for the image. Then it will be possible to figure out why things aren't as sharp as they could be.
     
  14. Dennis,
    There has been a lot of good advice given. Your wanting to try full frame and if you can afford it, get one. You are obviously passionate about photography.
    Jeff is correct, the 6D will not fix tack sharp issues. Either the camera was not focused on what you wanted to be sharp, or your aperture was set so wide you did not have enough depth of field to get everything you wanted in focus tack sharp or perhaps the lens is just soft. Are you pixel peeping, zooming in 100% and expecting the edges razor sharp, not going to be razor sharp, back off and look at the entire photo and judge if it is sharp. This is all things you can learn and practice at and look at shots that did not turn out, look at the focal points. See what the camera locked focus on. Determine did the camera lock focus on something in front of your subject or behind it. Was your f-stop set so low (F/1.4-2.8) that there was a very narrow depth of field so perhaps not everyone in the shot or even an entire face was in focus. These issues can happen regardless if you are shooting with a Canon Rebel or a 1DX. But these are things that you can improve on as you learn.
    That aside, the 6D is a good basic FF DSLR, wider shots, you will lose the ability to use APS-C lenses. Good low light. The 1/4000 sec shutter speed is not an issue, the camera does have ISO 50. And if you really want to shoot wide open at f/1.4 or f/2.8 in full sunshine, you can buy a Neutral Density (ND) filter.
    I love my 6D most of the time. Pretty darn good in low light, great color. There are times I wish it had more focal points and better low light focusing and a few features I had on my 7D or features available on the 5D MKIII. But all in all, a really good FF camera that will not break the bank. In my opinion a better camera than a 5D MK II. I have shot weddings with it and other gigs. It does the job. You may want to see what the 6D MK II has to offer. For myself, I am waiting for the 1DX MKII or I may jump ship and move to the Nikon D4S. But I am hoping Canon will come out with something that knocks my socks off. We will see.
    The Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 is a good sharp lens, though I have been bothered with slow focus in low light, not as much of a concern shooting hobby, but really bothers me if I miss a perfect moment while shooting a professional gig like a wedding or Bar/Bat Mitzvah. It is not awful but I am using a used Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L (version I) and it is much faster at focus in low light, so perhaps a little longing for a Canon 70-200 f/2.8. :)
    I think you will enjoy the 6D and your lens choices. Keep in mind there will always be a newer better camera out there. The stuff we are shooting with is still pretty awesome.
    Happy shooting.
     
  15. I love my 6D most of the time. Pretty darn good in low light, great color. There are times I wish it had more focal points and better low light focusing and a few features I had on my 7D or features available on the 5D MKIII. But all in all, a really good FF camera that will not break the bank. In my opinion a better camera than a 5D MK II.​
    My assessment also!
     
  16. Hello again, first off thanks again for all your responses really appreciate it and sorry for my late response as i was out for a week.
    Like i said i am fully convinced that i dont need to buy that 6d and i am fully grateful for all your honest advised , and i will be sticking to my 70d but let me just be clear that i didn't say all my shots are not tact sharp i only said some of my shot are not tact sharp and i am being honest at that time when i thought going FF might give me a better focus and a better image all in all but of course i knew very well that i will be putting a lot of effort as well to make it work.
    I am not a pixel peeper by no means i dont even know how to do it honestly there is still a lot of things that i dont understand with my camera as of now i still have difficulty understanding the histogram and at the moment im in the process of learning how to micro adjust as 1 of the comment suggest, right now im going back to basic and i just recently learned something about recomposing and i strongly believe im doing it all wrong and im just glad i found that link on how to properly recomposed and i think some of my out of focus problem comes with my recomposing.
    If i may please ask an off the topic question about my camera, i just recently noticed the green circled number from the right side beside the iso number if you looked from the viewfinder even on the lcd screen, i have watched a you tube video and i saw from that 70d video that it was 99 and mine is 14 even when it beeps and focus it still is 14 but from that video when it focus its 99 www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vQwZzbhzXs. Can someone please enlighten me about that or do i need to make another thread for that question ?
    Anyway i would have happily post a pics showing my problem but i simply dont know how to, i tried inserting but a pop up window is asking for a url and its in my desktop so im kinda lost on how to, but anyway i know the problem is me and i just need to sharpen my technique and skills. I will not be buying that 6d for the moment but i will surely wait for the 6d mk2 and by then i will judge for myself if i would need one.
    thank you all.
     
  17. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    Anyway i would have happily post a pics showing my problem but i simply dont know how to​
    Probably the simplest method is you fill in the form that comes up after you "Confirm" your posting.
    At this screen you can attach a JPG image from your computer.
    If it is small enough, it will be displayed in-line. If it is too big, there will just be a link.
    I made my image small enough to be displayed in line, below - - -
    WW
    00dU7u-558398184.jpg
     
  18. I have both 6D and 7d and both are excellent cameras. I cannot differentiate between the IQ of either camera in general photography. Its only in Low light that the 6D is better. It you are used to the focusing of the 70D you might find the AF of 6D disappointing and for action it’s a bit slow.
    That is why I have both 70D for action and wildlife 6d for low light and portraiture . Other than that there is not much difference.
    Bokeh is better on the Full Frame but when I compared my Sigma 18-36 F1.8 on 70d against a borrowed 24-70 F2.8 with my 5d Mk 2 there was I could not say that the IQ of either were better; they are both great combinations.
    If you are considering a 6D I would hang on to the 70D as they compliment each other well.
    There is a cheaper option a 2nd hand 5D Mk 2 IQ as good as the 6D up to 6400ISO otherwise both handle well.
     

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