Lens doesn't disconnect

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by tim_s|8, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Hi all. D700 and a 16-35 f/4 lens. Had just finished up a series of shots, all was fine. Went to switch from the wide to a long and when I pressed the lens release button and rotated, it didn't spin. Tried again and it was stuck where it was.
    Gave it a little jiggle the other way and it rotated. Past centre on the body. It's now a few degrees past where it's supposed to stop (white dot is probably at 11:00 looking at the front). I've not got the stomach to find out how far it goes to the right. Still does not turn the way it should with the lens release button pressed, but it will turn the wrong way without pressing the button.
    From what I can see, the lens mounts are not moving, the lens itself of moving on the mount. I don't even have a guess as to what's failed to allow this to happen. Took it to Camera Service Centre in Sydney and they politely declined to even touch it. Said they'd never seen anything like it. Both camera and body are in otherwise fine condition. Neither has been dropped and the mounts are not damaged. I'd actually swapped lenses (including to/from the 16-35mm) a couple times prior that same shoot.
    Anyone have any ideas I can try before lugging it over to Nikon and being told to go away?
     
  2. can you give us more information? or perhaps post a picture?
    we could suggest lots of things, but still not fix the problem.
     
  3. There's not too much more information unfortunately. The lens release button does push in what feels like all the way. Also, the LCD on the top of the camera will flicker between F0 and F1.
    I've linked to a photo of where it is at the moment with line showing the centre line of the camera and lens. As you can see it's a bit past that centre line - the lens will rotate the wrong way (away from the lens release button) but will not rotate towards the release button from its current off centre position.
    Lens rotated past stop image
    Thanks.
     
  4. Older lenses don't have the stop that keeps you from turning the lens the wrong way. You should keep turning it the way that you already have to get it off, as now it likely won't turn the other way, although from experience, I can tell you that you've already bent your aperture lever. It's the little lever at 9:00 just inside of the mount, luckily you can get yourself a tool (I used needle nose pliers on my old camera) and bent it back into place. Either use another camera for reference, or look for a photo of a Nikon online, but the aperture lever should be exactly at 9:00. I'll take a photo of my D200 when I get back home today for you.
     
  5. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    First of all, the 16-35mm/f4 is the AF-S VR, which is a fairly new lens, introduced back in 2010. Moreover, the OP's lens is now stuck on the D700; camera and lens can no longer be separated.
    Other than taking it to a repair center, Nikon or otherwise, I am not sure what else one can do. Hopefully at least Nikon can figure out a way to dis-mount the lens.
     
  6. I don't even have a guess as to what's failed to allow this to happen.​
    There's a little stopping screw inside the bayonet (6 o'clock) that is supposed to prevent this kind of over-rotation. That screw is most likely gone (since you can rotate the lens freely counterclockwise).
    but it will turn the wrong way without pressing the button​
    But not very far before the locking pin catches on one of the lens bayonet mounting screws (unless you keep the lens release button pressed).

    The bad news is that I suspect the aperture lever of the lens is now interfering with it's in-camera counterpart (the actuating lever at the 9 o'clock position when looking from the front) - and that's what is preventing you from turning the lens clockwise to unmount. I have no other suggestion than sending your camera to Nikon as applying torque to force this apart is very likely to bend both the aperture lever in the lens and the stopdown lever in the camera - which will necessitate a repair anyway.
    You could try to rotate the lens counterclockwise slowly to see if it might come off that way. Before you do, set the camera to manual focus (retracts the spring-loaded AF screw in the bayonet of the camera). Also, set the lens to 35mm to protect the rear element - at that setting it is moved farthest inside the lens barrel. Also have the camera off - no need in risking shortening the CPU contacts.
     
  7. Nikon's lenses mount with counter-clock wise rotation, and dismount with clock-wise rotation.
    This was always a problem when using 2 different brands of cameras, and other brands have it in the opposite direction.
    D700 push button does 2 things, moves beck into the camera the lens locking pin, AND the mechanical AF drive shaft. Both needs to be retracted in order for the lens to let it go freely out of the mount. Since your lens is an AF-S lens, so perhaps retracting the AF drive shaft is not important, but if broken or bent, could impair operation of the lens locking pin.
    Perhaps a Pentax or Canon or another brand user, was trying to dismount the lens too hard ? - in wrong direction for Nikon lens mount, causing some bending of mechanical linkage.
    See if you could possibly insert a thin razor blade between the lens and the camera mount, in the area where the lens locking pin is stuck. Try to dislodge it. Your other option is to force the clock-wise rotation until the white dot on the lens matches the white dot on the camera mount - the way the camera was designed to remove a lens. Holding pressed in the lens release button.
    Forcing lens into counter-clock wise rotation will do more damage to the mechanism, as it seems was already done. The lens should stop at exactly 12 hour and not at 11. Your only choice is to force the lens into clock-wise rotation, while keeping the lens release button pressed all the way. This perhaps will not fiix the mount, but could possibly remove the lens, and then allow easier inspection if/how the lens release mechanism works or not.
    In either case, your camera will require service. With you forcibly removing the lens that will require service, or let the repair center remove the lens and correct the lens mount.
    Two or more wrong things will not make one good thing.
    Simple and over-cautious rules help avoid trouble:
    1 - never lend your Nikon camera to a Pentax or other type camera user, that could possibly have a different habit of mounting lenses, or have hand too strong at it.
    2 - always read camera manual. E.g. you could learn that the camera should be powered Off before mounting or dismounting lenses. Since modern lenses have CPU and multi electrical linkage with the camera body, having the camera ON is just risky and wrong.
    3 - forcing mount that requires extra strenght, is indication of something wrong going on, and could do more damage. Forcing any illegal movement will end up in repairs.
     
  8. at auto parts store invest in a multi leaf gauge. These have been used in the past to disengage certain lenses that get stuck on camera mounts. BE EXTREMELY PATIENT, do not force anything. Various and sundry levers and spring loaded pins create issues when the lens is rotated by mistake in the wrong direction! My advice is of course given at your risk!
     
  9. If the D700 looks the same as the D300 in this regard, there are two pins that go in and out when you press the lens release button. The biggest one is located at seven o'clock, and it is the AF pin. If you put the camera in M mode (C,S,M button), the AF pin will go in. Easy to try out at least.
     
  10. "Older lenses don't have the stop that keeps you from turning the lens the wrong way."​
    Where did you get that from Ariel? Because it's sheer nonsense.
    All Nikon F-mount lenses going way back have had a little protruding screwhead in the mount to prevent them being rotated past the fully-mounted position. Sometimes this screw can work loose - especially on low quality 3rd party lenses. I'm guessing this might have happened in this case, but that wouldn't explain why the lens can't be turned clockwise to demount it.
    Best thing would be to leave it well alone now Tim, and take it along to a Nikon service centre. Since the lens is a genuine Nikon article, and maybe still under warranty, you should be able to claim against Nikon for any damage incurred to lens or camera.
     
  11. Calm down Joe, did I kick your grandmother once or something? I never said that they didn't come with one, I said that they don't have one. This often happens because they are often removed by people doing armchair repairs, they were sheared off, they slowly came unscrewed over time, or any of the other various reasons that lead to them not being present any more. If I hadn't been in such a hurry to write the response, I would have included the word "often," but I came into this thread to give Tim a solution, not to flex off and spout facts, showing everyone on the internet what a big man I am.
    Shun, sorry, it was in the morning, I was meeting someone, I saw the title, didn't read the post incredibly carefully so didn't notice that it was a newer lens, and just wanted to type Tim a solution to mull over until I got home. A stop screw could have fallen out of even a new lens; just type "Nikon stop screw" into Google, and the first result is a Flickr discussion of someone having it happen to their 200-400mm f/4, which is also a fairly new lens, and another chimes in to the thread to mention it occurring to their 14-24mm f/2.8. Especially, as I just said, if the previous owner or an inexperienced technician attempted some repair and removed the screw for some reason, never re-installing it.
    As I mentioned, I had this occur to me before, with an older manual focus lens on a digital body. 24mm lens originally from the pre-Ai days, so who knows how many owners before me. Turned the lens the wrong way to unmount it, being used to the stop existing, and having multiple camera systems that don't all turn the same way to mount/unmount the lens, and got the lens stuck on the camera. Once I turned it the wrong way, it wouldn't turn the right way, so my only recourse was to keep going the wrong way. The only issue was that the aperture lever on the camera was bent, and much like you detailed here, I just bent it back myself, and had seemingly fine operation since, until I passed the body along to a relative (still works fine as far as I know):
    http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00H29x
    Being a newer lens, one could potentially send the camera in to Nikon and hope for the best, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If I was in the situation, and fairly sure that I would be getting charged a repair fee, I'd do to this setup what I did to my D80 and non-Ai lens. If you're going to be paying for a repair anyway, Nikon charges a flat fee, and will replace the aperture lever on the camera for no additional cost. They did so with my D200 anyway, and as far as I knew, the aperture lever wasn't bent! Never had anything abusive happen to the camera, and all my exposures were, as always with the D200, so perfect I was convinced the camera was telepathic.
     
  12. Ariel, I think you're the one who's over-reacting. What you first wrote was quite misleading, and might discourage people from buying or trying older lenses on their new DSLRs. The spirit of these threads is to provide a resource and archive of solutions - so the info in them ought to be correct. Not trying to be big; just attempting to sift fact from opinion.
    My experience with older Nikkors is that they work just fine on modern cameras, and the number I've come across with the detent screw missing is - well I can't remember the last time I encountered one to be honest. It takes a lot to shear one off or wear it down, but true, they can occasionally come loose or be stupidly undone and lost by inexperienced repair. Once fitted at the factory, the detent screw should never have to be removed in the normal course of things.
     
  13. Interesting; my post from before doesn't appear to have posted...
    I tried seeing if I could get something between the lens and the body, no dice as there's almost no gap to speak of. Putting the camera into Manual mode all around didn't change anything either. And there's no chance someone else wretched the lens the wrong way.
    I dropped it off at Nikon this morning, they say they should have a quote in about a week. FWIW though, their initial guess is the stop pin on the lens is compromised in some way leading to the over-rotation, and the aperture control arm is preventing it from coming back. They suspect they'll have to disassemble the camera to sort it out.
    I'll post back when they tell me something definitive.
    Thanks
    Tim
     
  14. Wow, not sure if it has something to do with 16-35 f/4 vr in particular, but just this morning it's stuck to my D4. It happened
    to my d800e for a couple of times, but I can manage to remove it after a few tries. Upon closer inspector I noticed the
    aperture lever on the 16-35 is bent slightly, so even tho it has no trouble opening up to f/4, it doesn't appear to close all
    the way down to f/16. This doesn't bother me as much since I never shoot past f/8, and since there's a lot of weddings to
    be shot i figured I could wait sending it to Nikon.
    Crap I put it onto one d4 yesterday and this morning couldn't take it out. I can still press the release pin freely, the lens
    doesn't rotate past 12 but I can't remove it from the mount.
    I have never abused any bodies or lenses, this is the 1st time it happened. The flimsy 16-35 f/4 vr always kinda bother me
    a little being all plastic, but never expect such mount problem to occur.
     
  15. Hi all. Completely forgot to post back on the outcome of my service.
    Nikon did get the two separated and both are working as normal now. They were not able to/did not want to say what went wrong specifically.
    The main thing I was charged for on the service list was a 1C999-906 bayonete mount unit (camera body, not lens) and four hours of labour (I was told that they effectively disassembled the camera to get at the lens from behind the mount). Plus replacing my well used rubber grips ran me roundabouts $500 AUD.
    They never mentioned anything about the aperture control arm on either the lens or body. Also, my release pin did not depress freely, only went about halfway.
    I just checked and my 16-35 mount and arm are both metal...
     
  16. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    The values for the Australian, Canadian and US dollars are somewhat close at the moment. So we essentially are talking about a $500 repair in any of those currencies. I would imagine that they'll charge you like $100 an hour for labor. 4 hours seems reasonable for all that work to take a D700 apart and then put it back together.
    In some 36 years of using Nikon SLRs (since 1977), I have yet to have a lens stuck on a body, and it is quite rare to read about that on this forum. I think the 16-35mm/f4 AF-S VR is reasonably well built; I doubt that it is particularly vulnerable to this issue, but if you search for 16-35 setting stuck, of course you'll find incidences related to that particular lens.
     
  17. Pretty close on that hourly charge guess... it was $90/hour AUD. Exchange rate was roughly $1.07AUD > $1.00 USD at that time. Either way, does look to be a $500 problem if there are no other complications.
    Kind of a no-brainer repair when you've got $4000ish+ worth of hardware stuck together like amorous teenagers with braces.
    Also took about two weeks to get it back, but I'm sure that depends on a lot of things like backlog and parts availability.
     
  18. I have the same problem any idea please?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbjSnNyNHog
     
  19. I've just encountered the same problem on my D3100. The lens just will not rotate the last 9mm to allow the dots to line up. However it locks in okay when rotated towards the lock position. On inspection of my D80 I has occured to me that perhaps the contact block may have somehow become dislogged, any comments welcome.
    Pippa Jones[​IMG]
    00dz7I-563518784.JPG
     
  20. I have now managed to release the lens, on the D3100, I'm sure you don't want to ask how, all I can say it involved very careful application of a LED head magnifier and a very fine kitchen knife. You will however be pleased to know that the camera body is fine. Cause of the problem was found to be a loose screw, the bayonet plate had to be replaced due to damage on removal. If this helps magic, but very much a “be it on your own head” alternative hang on for the experts to come up with a better way.

    Pippa Jones
    Not sure what up here, just hope this works, seems to be a four letter word up there somewhere, then I get a message to say I'm using to fewer word. so hope this tips the scale.
     
  21. [​IMG]
    Sorry not doing very well with picture posting, please find D3100 lens
    00dz7r-563519984.jpg
     

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