Landscape Photography and the Pentax 645 -Pros and Cons

Presently I use a mamiya c220 TLR for nature and landscape photography. I

like the square image and the close focusing ability of this set-up. While

looking for a spot meter for this camera, I realized that I could practically buy a

pentax 645 MF set-up with built in spot meter. Much of my photography is in

the backcountry or on the go where I want to minimize what I take. Maybe I

should use the TLR when I have my 35mm system handy for light metering

and a 645 for when I only have one camera? I'd like to hear from other

landscape / nature photographers regarding the MF Pentax 645. If I went this

direction I see myself using a 45mm, 75mm, and 150mm lenses. Is this

system any lighter than the Mamiya TLR?

Hugh,

 

I don't know about the C220, but having had a C330 and now a 645NII, I think that the Pentax is probably lighter. If you aren't after a digital back, the Pentax is probably one of the great surprises of the MF world.

 

It is dirt cheap, has great metering, great autofocus, great lenses, and handles like a 35mm. I bought mine for the autofocus and as a holiday and hiking camera, and have grown to love all the other good things about it

I use both a Mamiya 645 camera and Rolleiflex TLR, and find myself using the Rolleiflex 90% of the time when it comes to landscape photography. The three main reasons are:

1. The Taking lens on the Rolleiflex is unbeatable.

2. Having one light camera with one light lens allows me to concentrate on composition more than worrying about "the right lens" to use with a multi-lens outfit.

3. Reliability and robustness.

 

The square slides or negatives can be used for either horizontal or vertical prints, or even square prints if you have a liking for those.

If I didnt need the flash sync of my ae3 etrsi bronica I would have gone for this camera. If you are into landscape and hiking into the backcountry the pentax 645 is by far the best choice. With the world going digital the selection of quality glass at cheap prices makes this a no brainer. I would be prepared to buy a handheld spotmeter though because this is a tripod camera and trying to move the thing around on the tripod to take readings is a pain. Get a handheld meter.

 

The only negative I see is no interchangeable backs. Otherwise a great system that is also lighter than the mamiya tlr's I have handled.

First of all, the Pentax 645 (MF) does not have built-in spot metering. It only has center-weighted metering. If you use spot metering often, it's always better to get a real spot meter. for size, the TLR is definitely smaller and lighter. However, the major concern for Mamiya TLR lenses are getting the matched hood (to reduce flare) and the use of filters (particularly polarizer and ND grad).

I have used a Pentax 645 NII for a bit. As Jeff said above:

 

"[it]has great metering, great autofocus, great lenses, and handles like a 35mm. I bought mine for the autofocus and as a holiday and hiking camera, and have grown to love all the other good things about it."

 

I entirely concur with his statement. The matrix metering on this camera is very reliable compared to the Mamiya 7ii metering system (have the latter as well). The Pentax does have spot metering capability and center-weighted as well. I trust the camera's meter to within 1/3rd of a stop; bracketing only when there is extensive sky in the photo and/or snow on the ground. I don't think you need to invest in a hand-held lightmeter with the NII.

 

As for your choice of lenses, I would add the 35 manual focus (77mm filter thread). In fact, I would get all manual focus lenses, except if you get a zoom. For the zooms, autofocus is the way to go. I have the 45 F2.8 manual and it is ok. The 35mm F 3.5 is a better lens, especially for landscapes. Also look into the 33-55mm zoom. For landscape photography, that lens covers quite useful focal lengths.

 

As was also said above (and despite what Michael Reichman says about the NII body over at Luminous Landscape), this iteration of the 645 Pentax body will probably NOT support a digital back. A couple of years ago, Michael made a big deal about the replacememnt of the 645 by the 645NII writing something about the electronic connections on the back of the new camera being able to support a digital back. That has turned out to be nonsense to date...and emails to Pentax, questions to their reps at photo shows, etc., regarding a digital back for the NII have not provided any hope for a digital back. So if you purchase this camera, purchase it because you want to stay with film.

 

Another positive: all the exposure data are recorded along the edge of the film. So it is possible to see which exposures and why look the best. That is very handy to have.

 

Overall, I love the system. And prices are very reasonable right now. The images I have made are sharp; colors are saturated, etc. I see no need to spend ridiculous amounts of money for a Hassie/Contax/etc, unless you need to switch between film types (with different backs). So the price is right, and there is a more or less complete system out there should you need more equipment. If you shoot landscapes, and can stay with film, this is a very good investment.

 

That being said, here are the downsides: The camera body is heavy. Throw a zoom on the camera and it becomes very heavy. You really cannot hand hold it above F8-11 unless you are shooting for shallow depth of field (and on MF, achieving good depth of field is different than 35mm format). Anyway, for this reason (weight; need of tripod), I like my RF Mamiya 7ii (no mirror slap vibration with an RF). Remember that some digital 35mm bodies (such as the new Canon body just announced, and certainly the Kodak 14n) are as good as 645 format slides/negs right now. Digital is only going to get better.

 

Again, I love the Pentax 645 NII, and it breaks my heart to be selling it now...the Mamiya 7ii travels with me so much easier, can be hand-held to lower shutter speeds and produces a bigger neg/slide in a smaller/lighter camera body. So if you are interested in a good price for the Pentax 645 NII and many of the lenses you are seeking, drop me an email.

 

rdc/nyc

Hugh--

You need to go with the autofocus (645N or 645NII) bodies to get spot metering (but then you get other benefits, such as matrix metering and improved spot metering. It is lighter and smaller than the mamiya TLR's (depending on what lenses you include). The quality of Pentax's lenses are one of the best kept secrets in Medium Format. A nice combination for backpacking would be the 645N (or NII) and one of the wide angle zooms, which are tack sharp (although a bit heavy--but then, you'd replace a couple of lenses). Pentax manual focus lenses will work on the newer bodies also, which is a plus (as will the 6x7 lenses with an adapter).

Hi Hugh, I switched to the P645NII to have a comfortable and transportable system which can do all that I want. No need for 35mm or a bigger format. It serves well for that. I assume it is not lighter to carry than your TLR, but it is not heavier than my previous Canon 35mm equipment. And the results are really great. Look here for some of them:

 

http://home.fotocommunity.de/weimann/

 

The "Neuseeland" folder is exclusively shot with the Pentax.

Hope this helps

Greetings

Peter

There's something odd about this thread. On the one hand the

question is about a Pentax system that could be bought for not

much more than the price of a spotmeter. Then most of the

replies sing the prizes of the Pentax 645N/645NII and lenses

which would each cost a lot more than a spotmeter. A decent

Pentax 645N/Nii system is surely going to cost several times the

price of a spotmeter.

 

I agree that the Pentax 645II is a very fine camera. I've seen

thousands of transparencies made on this camera and it loses

out to nothing in 645 in my view. The handling is terrific. But it

isn't going to cost a few hundred dollars - not with the best

lenses anyway.

 

Then there's the reason to buy. I don't think a Pentax 645

system will save a lot of weight vs a TLR or indeed a 6x6 SLR. A

guy I photograph often with uses one and his bag's the same

weight as my Bronica system.

 

If you want to carry less weight I'd make two suggestions. First

stop carrying a 35mm camera to use as a meter. Decide at the

beginning of each hike/session which camera is likely to be the

most useful and carry that. Buy the spotmeter, it'll be much

lighter and rather better /more convenient than metering with a

35mm

 

Second, if you want to lose a lot of weight, get a MF rangefinder

as a second camera. Now they're not totally flexible but the

image quality is excellent and you can hand-hold easily. They

are a whole lot lighter and smaller. My Mamiya 7II and three

lenses weighs much less than most serious 35mm systems,

and though that's an expensive camera you can get a Mamiya 6

(sq) or 7 or a Fuji rangefinder or even the newer Bronica 645 for

a lot less.

Dave's right. A handheld meter (cheaper) and your camera is probably the

better move. Now if you want to upgrade, heck yea a P645 would be very

nice. The question is, what's the outfit going to cost you when your done and

do you want to spend the money for the amount of shooting you do. Also

consider needing the 645 macro lens for close stuff or getting the extensions.

 

Btw, I like your thinking on the square. Over time I have grown to like it over

the other formats I shoot. If your a sq printer, meaning that alot of the photos

you shoot are printed as squares, I think I''d stick to the format and forgo the

the annoying camera flip. Also, since your shooting a TLR with probably a

waist level, don't overlook having to change the way you shoot. I know a

shooter that went from a groundglass to everything else and wound up back

at usiing a GG as he preferred it.

 

Here's an idea you "might" want to consider. How about getting a 4mp digital

and using it as a meter/polaroid camera. My 4mp goes manual to 1/1000, F8

max and shoots as close as 3 inches. Has a Leica lens and has spot,

centerweighted and matrix type metering and fits easily in a waist pouch.

Works great as a notepad reminding me of possible shot to return to. With ISO

100 film in the Mamiya, all you need to meter to is 1/100 at F16. You could

probably pick up a used camera for less than a spot meter and have a digital

backup for the web as well.

I certainly agree with David that there is something odd about this thread. Hugh asked about getting an MF Pentax 645 and suddenly everyone is on about the Pentax 645N?

 

Anyway, Hugh I do landscape/nature/travel photography. I used to use an EOS 35mm system and a 645 rangefinder. I traded the rangefinder for a Pentax 645 last fall and not looked back. I LOVE it!

 

It felt like a monster when I took it out of the box but now that I'm used to it, it's not heavy at all. I carry 45mm, 75mm and now a 150mm with me. I bought a 120mm and am now trying to sell it. Don't be tempted by the Macro on this lens, as it just makes it WAY too big and heavy! The 150mm and 45mm are about the same size and are suprisingly small. The 45mm will cost you the most amount of money for some reason. If you are very patient on ebay then you can pick up a 'complete' P645 for pretty cheap. Quoting how much I paid won't help you, as I'm in the UK and these cameras are pretty rare here.

 

Anyway, it's not heavy and it's great for small hands. However, my camera does not print exposure info on the transparencies. I think he was talking about the 645N. And it doesn't have a spot meter, it is centre weighted, which I find a little awkward and have purchased a Weston meter recently.

 

If you have any specific questions about the camera or using it, feel free to email me.

 

Here's three websites that may be helpful:

 

http://www.floatograph.com/645v.html

 

http://www.camerareview.com/templates/reviews.cfm?camera_id=44

 

http://www.pentaxcanada.com/products/mf/645lenses/645lenses_manual.php

Mr. Weimann, very nice work

Thank you all for the input. It would be much easier if I were a pro - I probably

just use a Canon 1ds digital and then upgrade this summer. I like

transparency film ! Not only can you scan it but it makes for an amzing

projected experince. I realize now I have to bite the bullet and find a spot

meter. I'm frustrated with 35mm. The 35mm market is getting worse for the

landscape photographer - if you don't buy speed you get plastic ·(crap).

Maybe I should just sell my 35mm sytem and go with a Pentax 645?

Everyone has their druthers... You already have a MF system that can be built upon... I would buy a good light meter, Sekonic L-358 comes to mind, that can do both flash and strobe for whatever format you are shooting and forget going to a different MF system, and buying a digital camera to use as a polaroid, etc...

 

The nice thing about the Mamiya tlr system, is that you can afford to add lenses and bodies as you go along.. I generally keep three bodies loaded with different films (color coded tape on body)... Then depending upon what i intend to shoot at that time, I grab the appropriate body and lenses, and go for it... ymmv

 

 

denny

I recently used both my old P645 and P645n during my trip to Death Valley. P645n has spot and matrix metering, as well as exposure compensation and exposure lock. Then I compared slides from both. Actually same very high % of correct exposures, even with snow pictures and I did not use P645n as a meter for P645. Just learn center-wighted metering and compensate with ISO settings.

 

It is also possible to put two P645 bodies with 3 lenses in such a seemingly small backpack as Lowepro Microtrekker 200.

 

BTW, 75mm is surprisingly "usable" lens, even though it is "normal".

I have the Pentax 645 (not N or NII). Allow me to tell you why it works for my landscape style, why some of the other suggestions for cameras would not work, and my outlook on spot metering.

 

Firstly, I cannot personally imagine doing landscape work without the ability to critically use a grad ND filter. This counts out all of the range finders mentioned. Second, I photograph mostly in the mountains and in often heavy brush. Often this prohibits moving forward and back a few feet for better composition. I use the 45-80mm zoom that allows more precise control over composition. The weight and cost of the lens needs to be compared against the two or three lenses it would replace. Also, you are not changing from one lens to another for some differing compositions. Many of the cameras mentioned do not have reasonably priced zoom lenses as an option. Finally, for the issue of spot metering, I have not doubt that it is the ultimate in exposure control. It is not the only way to meter. On trips where I'm trying to minimize equipment I have fine success using the reflective weighted in camera meter and just bracketing. For trips when I can carry the equipment, I use a hand held spot meter that I will have regardless of the cameras I might have. You can pick up some of the older style spot meters in the used market for not a lot. Sure, and in camera spot would be nice. I'm not sure that it's required and certainly not sure that in itself, it's worth the price difference between the newer and older Pentax models.

 

For me the Pentax is very convenient to use. The down side is the bulk and weight, but to get the features I need, I guess it's the price to pay. My previous 645 was a Fuji rangefinder. It is a sweet camera, but the added flexibility of the zoom lens and the use of grad ND filters has made a huge difference in my photo quality.