Konica Color, B&W Soup, Pancolar F/8.0

Discussion in 'Classic Manual Cameras' started by subbarayan_prasanna, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. With all your encouraging with tips I made bold to develop the Konica Color 100 film in my home made soup of B&W chemicals. I used the Exakta VXIIA that I refurbished from a junk purchase with the pancolar F/8.0 rebuilt by Mr. Yazdhani of kamera Werke, Calcutta.
    Here are some results that I am happy with. I would appreciate your comments on the same.
    Yes, the negatives are not really legible due to the heavy masks. But they seem to scan fairly well. I developed for the same time as I do with my B&W films. Thank you for your patience and advice.
    00Tj4q-146875584.jpg
     
  2. I drove upto my favorite potter's yard. He has some good light and shade as well as visual intensity. There is a big tree behind which I could hide and take the picture. People are camera shy here.
    00Tj4w-146877684.jpg
     
  3. I took some pictures of flowers too from our front yard at home. Russ Rosener! if you are around these may interest you for the OOF of the Pancolar. [You had asked me some time ago.] Unfortunately, the color processing on these films is bad. But I shall try when I get a good Kodak color film.
    00Tj53-146879584.jpg
     
  4. The last one!
    00Tj5A-146881684.jpg
     
  5. After thought!
    00Tj5S-146887584.jpg
     
  6. Sp,
    Wonderful shots. The last one is my favorite or do I like the shot of the pots the best? Which? I do not know. They are all great,
    Mike
     
  7. we appreciate your posts as well as your experiments
    but I have a question
    why did you process the konica film in B&W chemicals?
    was it an experiment
    (( they came out better that most folks indicate- you must know what you are doing)
    or is trhis some film that is incompatible with normal c-41 processing?
     
  8. Walter Hi! Good question; my main problem was that the commercial guys who process C-41 films are franchisees of Kodak. They seem to do a good job on Kodak films. Of late, they have been below par in quality. Also they processed my Konica color film rather poorly. The colors were running all over. So I had to scan and post the pictures in B&W.
    At this juncture I read some discussions that C-41 films can be processed in B&W chemistry. So, I thought "why not give it a try?" Most people [rightly] cautioned that the developed negatives won't be good for printing but that they can be scanned. But they were skeptical on that too.
    My results are better than what many indicated. At least they are better than what the commercial lab did for me. The commercial lab also costs Rs 40 per roll plus 3 trips to the shop and things like "it is not ready yet...it is on its way...come tomorrow first thing in the morning, etc." My brew costs me only Rs 4 per roll and it is a fresh developer each time! Of course, no trips to the shop, either.
    I shall also admit that I am a zany guy who likes to experiment. Keeps me young and inquiring. At the end of it all I have sense of achievement.
    In my zeal to learn and experiment I bought several junk cameras Exaktas, Prakticas, Feds and Zorkis on ebay for less than $5 to $10 each. I have learned to repair them all; all are working well. But I have more cameras than I need, really. That is one irrational aspect while trying to feel young and learn! Thank you, regards, sp.
     
  9. I forgot to add that Kodak, Konica-Minolta or Fuji do not sell C-41 chemicals to customers. They sell them only to their own franchisees. Though it would be violation of the Monopolies and Free trade laws no one has taken them to court on this. So the game goes on in the guise of "Industrial Marketing". sp.
     
  10. Hi SP, interesting experiment and your results are pretty good. I do notice that on several of your images there is what looks like lens flare. I have seen this before on some of your posted images. After looking at them closer I think it is not lens flare but a scanning/post processing issue. I don't know what scanner you have nor am I that familiar with Picassa, but my guess is you need a bit of levels adjustment in on the shadow side to give you a good rendition as shown in the example below. Of course this is all a matter of taste as well.
    The cost issues aside, even crummy color on c-41 can be managed in scanning and it need not be right on the money if you intend to convert to B&W. This is bit OT for this forum so if you want any further discussion on this don't hesitate to contact me offline.
    That's a very pretty area/house you live in!
    00TjMT-147047584.jpg
     
  11. I have some formulas for home brew C-41 if you want them?
     
  12. It's interesting to me that this turned out so well. The effect, developed and done by the same person of course, is not unlike that of your Nova SilverPlus. (and yes, I'm slowly working up to it Subbarayan, be patient with me.)
     
  13. Subbarayan,
    Wow ! Thanks for the inspiration.
    I grabbed a roll of Shop-Rite 200 C-41 ( Scotch brand, actually) and popped it into my VXIIA when I read your post this morning. I attached a Steinheil 55/1.9 and a 35/2.8 Quinaron and made a few shots under diffused light coming from the skylight in my flat. I set up some collectibles and shot them around 1/25 wide-open.
    I souped the color film in D-76 1:1 at 72F for 13.5 mins (educated guess, but I think it needs more experimenting).
    Yeah, densest negs I've encountered and a real PITA to scan .... awfully grainy, too.
    But, heck, it was fun hearing the clunk of the Exakta and sipping on some vintage Tokaji.
    Again, thanks for the inspiration for an enjotable rainy morning experiment.
    00TjSB-147105984.jpg
     
  14. Thanks Louis! Your examples of the potter's are very interesting. Yes, someone earlier termed it the "Pancolar Glow" and suggested that it be left as is. All the same I would like to learn if it can be controlled, as you have demonstrated so well.
    I use the HP G3010 scanner. It is slow but seems adequate for the little lay work I do. Regards, sp.
     
  15. Here's another Ihagee from the collection.
    Supermarket 200-speed C-41 developed in D-76 1:1
    Shot with Exakta VXIIA with Steinheil 55/1.9 (1/25 @ f/1.9)
    00TjST-147107584.jpg
     
  16. Cliff, thank you; yes I would like to know. But I may have difficulty procuring the chemicals here. Shall try anyway. Thanks, regards, sp.
     
  17. Gabor, that looks good to me. Perhaps, some more dilution and longer development time would make it finer grained. I use a formula patterned on Microdol. I worked on it for over 6 months and many trials [around 30 strips] and arrived at a reasonable combination after plotting the results in a nomograph. Now I am getting fairly consistent results. Nice little Exa; I used to have one with its own small standard and Tele lenses! Regards, sp.
     
  18. Thanks JDM; please do take your time. I will be looking out for the day, eagerly. Regards, sp.
     
  19. I have tons of almost and recently-expired C-41 lying around . Another rainy spell this summer and I'll get down to finding a good method. At what amounts to $.09 a roll, who can complain ?
    This first-run trial yielded incredibly narrow scale on the Epson's histogram. I think the negs were a stop or two underexposed to begin with. This was my first roll in the VXIIA. It came with a bunch of Steinheil's, a Meyer 100mm, and a Zeiss Biotar 75/1.5. All of these lenses went up on the 'Bay this week . I kept the Exakta and Exa for fun (as this little exercise proved).
    The WLF on the Exakta is stuck because the release pin is broken and I didn't feel like fiddling with an awl or small screwdriver to pop it off to swap the prism from the Exa. Vertical shots were a pain in the bum, to say the least. At least the shutter curtain material isn't full of holes ( a bit wrinkled but OK).
    As a lover of quirky cameras, I guess I'll keep the Exakta; it is a handsome beast !
    Maybe run some Takumars on it ( I have M42-to-Exakta adapters) and hit the streets.
    Oh, I did notice, as an Exakta newbie, that getting near the end of the roll was filled with perils of sorts. There's almost no indication of film tension and I wound up stripping the sproket holes of the last few frames because I had no idea I was at the end of the roll ( failed to set the counter at the beginning). Live and learn !
     
  20. Gabor, the Meyer 100mm and the Biotar 75mm are reputed lenses. The price of the latter especially is out of reach for me. Yes Exakta makes you work hard; it is built more like a World War II Jeep. So we need to forget any delicate indicators from it. It is a most reliable camera though. I bought a VX from Ebay US last week for less than $5 ! The seller advertised it as a repair/spares body.
    When it arrived I had to do some peripheral cleaning; that was all. Everything works well, including the slow speeds. I tested the shutter timings on the CRT TV; they are bang on the dot, after 50 plus years! Hope you have more fun with your C-41s in B&W soup! Regards, sp.
     
  21. Wonderful experiments! I have some old (almost) expired C-41 here I don't want to spend money on for commercial processing. I think I'll give it a try in my B&W chemicals after reading this :)
    I read in another thread on C-41 B&W film that (semi)stand development at high developer dilution gave good results, I'm curious whether that would also benefit C-41 color film in B&W chemicals....
     
  22. Kasper Hi! I don't think that I can be of much help here other than encouraging you. This was my first and only strip of color c41 negative that I developed in my B&W chemicals. Thus I have no experience; some web discussions in Flickr etc., said that one ought to develop at 100 degrees F, etc., etc.
    However, I developed it only at my usual 75 degrees that I use for regular B&W. My guess [only a guess!] is that with a little more dilution and longer time in the soup it will produce a finer grain. I think you have to experiment a little and arrive at a suitable method. Best regards, sp.
     
  23. The moral support is much appreciated :)
    Gonna give rodinal 1+100 stand developing a try tomorrow night...and proceed from there...
     
  24. I've always heard that C41 color doesn't do well in B&W chemistry. Nice to see someone achieve good results with that process. Good pictures and thanks for "thinking (or processing) outside the box".
     
  25. Tried the following tonight:
    -presoak 1 min in water
    -Rodinal 1+100 - 1min agitate, 60min stand development
    - usual stop, rapid-fix & wash.
    At first I thought it went wrong, as I didn't see any pics...but that was due to the dark orange mask.
    Pictures were taken with a ultracheap panoramic focus free camera without exposure measuring with a 1cm diameter plastic lens.
    By my 3-year old son :)
    On the cheapest c-41 film I could find locally (no-name ISO 200)
    Here are some examples:[​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is me taking pics with my om-2n:[​IMG]
     
  26. Hi Kasper! your results look very good, especially when I sharpened them a little. Thank you for the reinforcement and quick response. Regards, sp
     
  27. Thanks for the reponse. I indeed didn't do much to optimize: use VueScan for scanning with auto-colour option on, not much else done like sharpening.
    I was curious if someone knows a DIY way of bleaching to remove the orange mask...How is it done in regular c-41 processing? I don't mind doing some experiments/screwing up some film :)
     
  28. Kasper, I saw a Kodak instruction sheet [on the web] that detailed about bleaching the mask. I recall that they recommended a combination of citric acid plus fixer in solution. Then, after regular processing dip the film in the above solution to bleach the orange mask while watching the bleach process. Kodak cautioned that if you leave it too long it would bleach the silver image too! So it would be delicate operation to control it only to bleach the mask and not the image.
    Unfortunately I did not/could not save the page. I hope I can find it and post the link here. Shall try. Regards, sp.
     
  29. Kasper, I found the Kodak instructions, below. Let me know how you fare with that process. sp.
    1. [PDF]
      Printing Color Films Developed as Black-and-White

      File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
      When Kodak color films have been mistakenly processed as black-and-white , there are several ... black-and white development and process conditions which ...
      www.kodak .com/global/en/consumer/products/pdf/ae31.pdf - Similar
     
  30. Wonderful, I love doing experiments :) Will report back on the topic ASAP...
     
  31. Just tried it, but it didn't work. Orange mask only changed colour a bit. Reread the pdf and then saw that this mix of citric acid/fix is only for e-6 slide film. They recommend printing b/w pictures directly from c-41 film on special paper. I think that removing the orange cast will thus be difficult...
     
  32. The orange cannot be removed from print film. Just as you discover PANALURE you will find out it is no longer available. Corrections after scanning is the only way.
    P.S. I looked all over but couldn't find my old C-41 mix formulas, but I found several interesting things on the net. Several formulas here:
    http://victorian.fortunecity.com/picasso/886/PMK/color.html
    And a cheap formula for bleach I found this somewhere in a forum:
    The very simplest bleach that I tried and it does work for C-41 is cupric chloride. This bleach was explored by amateurs in the early 1980s for the same reason you are now seeking an alternative. Since cupric chloride is hard to find, there is an alternative that consists of 100g copper sulfate pentahydrate + 100g sodium chloride (iodized table salt is ok) per liter. In the US copper sulfate pentahydrate is sold in hardware stores in crystalline form as a chemical to discourage tree roots in sewer lines and is quite cheap. Sodium chloride is of course found in the kitchen. However, for some formula (developers) you must not use iodized salt. For such formula you can use what is sold in the US as canning or kosher salt, but not "sea salt" that has many other mineral components.
    Dissolve the two components in hot water and let the solution sit overnight to form about half the concentration of cupric chloride. It will be somewhat cloudy with a precipitate, so after sitting a day, filter the solution with ordinary paper coffee filters, and then use it to bleach. Be certain to follow development with a stop bath (2% acetic acid + 15-20 g sodium sulfite per liter) and a rinse, and then follow the bleach with another rinse before using a non-hardening fixer. The lifetime of this bleach is said to be near-infinite but of course it does gradually exhaust with usage.
    I use Kodak Flexicolor now, but in the past, used the small dry mix developer and Blix called "Press Packs" in motel rooms , etc. and they worked very well. I think they are still available.
    Hope this helps.
     
  33. If your enlarger has a dichroic color head you can dial in filtration to counter the orange mask and then print on conventional black & white paper. When my family owned a camera shop one of our services was custom B&W processing and sometimes a client wanted a B&W print from a color negative. We didn't use enough Panalure to justify keeping it around so we learned to filter the orange mask. Most B&W paper is relatively insenstive to this color which is why orange safelights (at reasonable distances) can be used. Filtering helps, but the exposures are very long compared to printing from conventional B&W negs. Another possibility (which I haven't tried) might be to try some of the papers that can only be used under red safelight. Like Fotokemika Varycon.
     

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