Kodak C-41 RA Developer Replenisher LORR Question

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by dave_cheng|1, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. I made friend with a minilab owner and is able to talk into buying
    Kodak C-41 RA developer replenisher LORR he uses from him. What I get
    is a kit of developer replenisher LORR to make 10 liters. The kit
    contains 3 bottles of chemicals part A, part B and part C. I am sure
    the kit is actually a small set of a larger set that he uses. When I
    asked him if I need a Kodak developer starter to mix with the
    replenisher to make it a developer. He told me no starter is needed.
    Just use it as a developer and there is no difference. He has been the
    owner of his lab for more than 20 years. His business is in good shape
    and I believe he is telling me what he does himself. He has no starter
    in his storage at all. He has a huge pile of photopaper and chemical
    but not a single bottle of starter.

    I looked up Kodak technical publication Z-131 available from Kodak web
    site. On page 2-1 there is a table 2-1. The table shows the steps of
    the C-41 process for the C-41 RA chemicals. The first step, the
    development step, says C-41 RA developer replenisher LORR for 3
    minutes and 15 seconds. I am lost. Kodak is saying same thing as my
    friend is telling me.

    Well, developer replenisher is a replenisher. It is used to replenish
    the developer. You can add starter to it to makt it a developer. But
    you can not and should not use it as a developer. I can't believe
    Kodak's technical publication says something conflicting to what I
    have always believed.

    Can anyone tell me which is right? I would love to use the developer
    replenisher without adding starter as it is really simpler. But I am
    not convinced it is the right thing to do. Can anyone tell his/her
    actual experience in using this chemical? I plan to use this chemical
    on my JOBO ATL-2300. Thanks a lot.
  2. I used it for years without the starter (in a Fujimoto CP51).
  3. >> Can anyone tell me which is right? I would love to use the developer replenisher without adding starter as it is really simpler. But I am not convinced it is the right thing to do. <<

    Dave, reality-check; you are correct, you should use the LORR developer starter solution.

    Ron Mowrey knows what he's talking about, but I imagine he just misread the post and thinks you are talking about the RA paper process, which is a completely different thing.

    Look further into Z-131 (try the process monitoring section if you understand what that is) if you want further verification.

    I can only guess at what your minilab owner is thinking. Maybe he doesn't do process monitoring (with control strips); maybe he thinks big activity spikes on fresh tank refills are normal. I don't know. FWIW, the process would probably settle down in a couple days, or so. Maybe the overall work is so variable that they don't even notice such an activity spike.
  4. James G. Dainis

    James G. Dainis Moderator

    The post by Ron Mowrey that Bill refers to in his post above has been deleted. Ron indicated that he had indeed misread and gave the wrong information.
  5. James;

    Many thanks.

    My bad.

  6. Bill, You are probably right. My guess is that minilabs probably seldom start a new tank of developer from mixing starter and replenisher. If they ever needed it they could just drain perhaps half of the old developer and add fresh replenisher. They could even start with just replenisher and as you said it will settle down after a few days of load going through it. Once it is seasoned they will just replenish.

    I plan to use the C-41 RA developer (replenisher) LORR on my JOBO ATL-2300. I have not been too happy with the regular gallon sized C-41 developer which is supposed to be used one shot only. I process almost
    only 220 rolls exclusively. The JOBO tank system I have is JOBO 1500 series which is said to be not ideal for 220 rolls. So what I plan to do is to use larger (actually longer) tank and fill it with more chemicals than I usually did using shorter tank. In other words I may be
    wasting some chemicals but in return I will not get bad results from not using enough.

    Well, I will reuse the developer (reuse bleach and fixer as well) by replenishing. So the Kodak C-41 RA developer may be the best option for me. My replenish rate will be set to higher than speficied by Kodak's technical publication for roller transport processors. The RA developer replenisher has twice the strength than regular developer. I believe I should be able to replenish with it although my JOBO processor is supposed to use the developer one shot.

    In my mind I will not doubt what Ron says. So his is reply did make me think I could go ahead and use the replenisher as developer. It's my fault. I probably did not make it clear about what I was asking. My apologies. Thanks to all, Ron included, for the replies.
  7. Hi, is Ron Mowrey the ex Rochester guy who knows more about ra4 and C41 than anyone? Didn't he/you once argue with a chap calle Scott on photonet all the time? He may answer this then but I'll pose it to you all.
    I have been using Paterson C41 chemicals which are a single concentrate designed I guess for single shot; I use a jobo, 2502 reels. I have purchased some Kodak flexcolor c41 (not LORR) the vendor kindly gave me some starter but what I would like to know is this How much of part a to b to c to starter to use as single shot? what are the exhaustion rates? and what difference am I likely to see compared with the single concentrate? I have read a kodak tech sheet on the net but it lists a seperate set of chems for single shot and it also seems to indicate high replenish rates, Paterson will comfortably process a 35mm 36 shot film with 100ml of mixed chems.
    Sorry guys, lots of questions, but pertinent to the original thread I think. Ron, love to hear your answer. Thanks in advance Richard Haris.
  8. Guys,

    First off, C41 and C41RA developer are the same, while the LORR type is LOw Replenishment Rate, for low volume of film, so you also have less overflow of the working tanks as effluent.

    Next, on my home page I have this link to a consolidated Z-131 (all the chapters in a single, convenient PDF); and in fact, I spliced in between chapters 1 & 2 Tech pub CIS-49, which has the recipes for less-than-package volumes of their chemistry. Cheers!
    Dan Schwartz
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Click here to visit my home page!

    [Note: All links open a new browser window]
  9. Thanks Dan,

    I haven't visited your link yet but wished to thank you for the speedy reply.

  10. Dan,

    All clear now, Thankyou.

  11. Glad my, ahem, "improved" version of Kodak Tech Pub Z-131 helped you!

    By the way, I sure wish E-K would take the hint and make available the consolidated version, with all those stoopid chapters as well as The Rest Of The Stuff, all in one convenient file, like I did! :)


  12. Thanks Dan for the Z-131 pdf file. I did find a piece of paper in the box of the Kodak developer replenisher that gives the instruction of mixing the chemicals. It has a small section that says how to make working developer by adding starter to the replenisher. That's the answer I am looking for.
  13. I would like to piggy-back on this topic since the original question was answered. I'm in
    Riga, Latvia. I have access to Kodak C-41B and C-41RA chemistry. No tetenal, no single-use
    Flexicolor in Gallon jugs. I would like to use this C-41B chemistry in a Jobo CPP-2. I'm not
    familiar with replenishment and this is making me confused. I think, after reading the
    publications Dan Schwartz posted, that i need to mix the C-41B replenisher and starter to
    make ready-to-use solutions and then use those solutions one-shot in the processor. Could
    anyone correct me or offer some advice?

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