kiev/arax 60

i'm looking to buy another medium format camera and the kiev/arax 60 seems to be

at the top of the list right now, mainly because of price and i'd like to try an

SLR. right now i use a yashica mat, but it's having some difficulties and i'm

not sure if it's worth it to repair it right now. i've heard the arax60 is

really bulky/heavy, but then again so is my TLR yashica mat. does anybody have

any input or could tell me some differences between these 2 cameras, and your

experience using the arax?

thanks so much!

Hello Francesca,

I had a Yashicamat for several years, but sold it when I bought a Rolleiflex. I've just bought an Arax 60. The Arax is much heavier than the Yashicamat, but not too difficult to use with the standard lens. I use the SLR for portraits, at which it excels, and the Rollei for just about everything else. Its much easier to carry the Rollei around, the Arax is very bulky. I like both SLR and TLR, but they have different strengths and weaknesses. It depends what you photograph ...

don?t waste your money and time with a kiev or arax, buy a second hand pentax medium format gear, a pentax 67II whit the AE prism, or a pentax 645n.

years ago i started to medium format world using a kiev60, and now i love my pentax 645n and pentax 67II.

I only have the Kiev60 so I can't compare with the Yashica. But as

they told you, the Kiev is heavy. You're talking about several

kilogram without a lens. If you add the 180/2.8 it becomes a load

around your neck.

 

I don't like the WLF so I only use the prism and to be honest I

would like every viewfinder to be as good: large, bright. I'm not

fond of the light meter in the prism and don't trust it. Maybe

because I'm not good at using it but I think it is far to easy to

change some setting without noticing. Always double checking is too

slow for me.

 

Mirror slap is an issue for me. I only use ambient light and often

inside. Maybe I need some practise and better technique. But then I

don't like a tripod.

 

I haven't used it a lot but from what I have seen coming out of it I

like it. I bought mine at Hartblei and so far no problems.

 

Honestly, I bought a Kiev just to have a recent vintage camera that

gave me 6x6 to experiment with without breaking the bank, nothing

more. Now I know I like 6x6 and will use it further, but now I also

know more about what is available in general, I doubt I would get a

Kiev again if I started from scratch. I have some lenses and a P6 as

well so it is too late. Certainly knowing that the Kiev is more

capable then I am. On the other hand it because it is reasonably

cheap it doesn't bother me taking where I would never take a more

expensive camera.

The Kiev/Arax is considerably heavier than a YashicaMat (although the weight difference isn't all that great when you use the Arax's waist level finder instead of the heavy prism).

 

I've found my Arax 60 to be very reliable, but IMO the big advantage of this camera (and the less reliable{IMO} Pentacon Six) is the range of excellent and inexpensive lenses available for it--they cost MUCH less than the lenses for any other MF SLR. Still, when you only need a normal lens, you might want to consider also having your Yashica repaired for use as a lighter weight backup.

Why would anyone even consider buying a Ukrainian "Wonky Donkey", when a used Mamiya 1000s can be had for less money?

> Why would anyone even consider buying a Ukrainian "Wonky Donkey", when a used Mamiya 1000s can be had for less money?

 

Because there are plenty good lenses for a lot less than for ANY MF system.

 

I have a Kiev 6C(older version of the 60) together with a 30mm fish eye, zeiss 50 mm wide angle, the standard 80, a Sonnar 180mm and a 300mm pentacon.

This collection cost me less than 500?! Camera included.

The Kiev is a lot of things but certainly NOT a "Wonky Donkey".

 

What is starting to bother me on this forum is that it is silently turning in a Kiev bashing group. There seems to a tendency here to have the conviction that Kiev=BAD, mostly not hindered by any first hand knowledge.

 

I'm here to learn and to share my experiences with other people just starting out. What we don't need is somebody telling us that our equipment is not the right one in such generalised terms.

If you think a certain piece of equipment is not suited for a purpose than say so in a funded way and say why it is not suited.

Erwin is right. A good Kiev 60 or 6 can be a fine photographic instrument. Sure, fit and finish

are not up to Hasselblad standards, but then it's a lot cheaper.

I had one for over 10 years. The lenses are indeed fantastic. However if you think a Yashica is

bulky wait until you hold a Kiev 60. My advice is to try out a Kiev 60 and see what you think.

Otherwise fix the Yashicamat or buy another in good shape.

well the reason i'd really like to get the arax60 over any other is because i love the 6x6 format. i'm a student right now and it's really important to me to have a consistent portfolio so i would like it if it iwas all 6x6. also shooting square is a challenge for me because it's so easy to mess up by shooting too much foreground/background. i like to carry it around and see what shooting street photography is like more than anything.

I have a YashicaMat, along with a range of other older MF and LF gear. The Kiev is somewhat larger and bulkier than the YashicaMat, but it is not awkward to use at all. You will feel it hanging round your neck though, as you would with any 6x6 (or larger) SLR.

 

The great thing about the Arax/Kiev 60 (and Pentacon 6TL) is not so much the price of the body, but the price of the lenses and accessories. The lenses are good, and there is a great range too. Everything from a 30mm fisheye that doesn't cost three mortgages, to a 1000mm lens.

 

Going with an Arax is a good way to get a decent body with a guarantee, something that should last you for a good few years. It will allow you to explore your limits and what style of photography suits you. I've dealt with Arax on a couple of ocassions, and their service has been excellent.

 

Another wortwhile option is the Bronica SQ series. These too are available at a reasonable price, and although the lenses are more expensive than thoe for the Kiev, they are still quite reasonably priced, and are good performers.

 

If you like your Yashica, get it fixed. That way it'll continue to serve you well for years to come.

"Why would anyone even consider buying a Ukrainian "Wonky Donkey", when a used Mamiya 1000s can be had for less money?"

 

Depends where you live I guess. For the price of a battered Mamiya body (and I mean battered: covering hanging loose, brass shining through and half of the paint missing) I can have a Kiev60 with 3 lenses and warranty delivered to my doorstep. As said by others it isn't a Hasselblad but it isn't an Holga either.

 

I can't say anything about reliability as I don't use it intensively. But if six-sigma is important to you then you shouldn't even look at a secondhand camera at all.

 

"i'm a student right now and it's really important to me to have a consistent portfolio so i would like it if it iwas all 6x6."

 

I'm not sure this is a good thing but you will have to discuss that with others that are more professional into photography. My take on it would be that a students portfolio should be more varied to show you master different techniques/formats. But again I'm certainly not a professional.

 

"Everything from a 30mm fisheye that doesn't cost three mortgages, to a 1000mm lens."

 

Sadly the 1000mm does require a mortgage... And a forklift.

 

Something to take into account is that the P6 mount glass can be adapted to most other medium format cameras. Loosing all automation etc but still usable I guess.

I was considering buying an Arax 60, and I believe that they are probably good value for money, but I ended up getting a Pentax 67 for about the same money, and it is a substantially better camera. The body was $199 with the non-metered prism in excellent condition, and a 165mm lens was $212, also excellent. The 90 and 105 lenses can be had very reasonably. The Pentax is a bit more bulky than the Arax and definitely more so than a Yashicamat, though.

If you can have a Pentax 67 for that money I wouldn't hesitate either. Over here they go about 800 euro for a body without viewfinder and brass shining through.

I have both.The Kiev is a lot heavier but has a brighter screen & interchangable lenses but a flash synch of only 1/30 sec.Get one with mirror lock up.I have an Arax that I've got about 100 rolls through with no problems so far.

Arax60 MLU with a load of accessories, one year warranty, Arsat 80/2.8, Zeiss-Jena 50/4, 120/2.8 and 180/2.8 cost me about 500 euros.

 

If you can find Pentax67 / Mamiya and lenses for those prices, then go for it, but for me it didn't seem like a viable route.

 

It's not that bulky. I only use the wlf, which helps of course, but it's not really any worse than handholding a modern dslr (like Canon 40D) with a quality lens. Ergonomically speaking it's worse, but weight isn't such a big issue as people make of it in the net.

 

The 180/2.8 Zeiss is a different story, but then again it's a f2.8 tele for a MF camera so what do you expect... strictly weight-wise it isn't any worse than, let's say, Canon 70-200/2.8.

 

I just made a 20x20" print shot handheld with the 80mm Arsat (about $70 new) and Provia 100F. I can eyeball it at 5cm if I wish. For my needs: excellent.

 

"I'm not fond of the light meter in the prism and don't trust it. Maybe because I'm not good at using it but I think it is far to easy to change some setting without noticing. Always double checking is too slow for me."

 

I don't understand how you can accidentally change any settings in the meter. There's only one setting (2.8 or 4 for my lenses) and then just rotate the outer ring. Mine works fine, I just prefer the wlf.

 

"Mirror slap is an issue for me. I only use ambient light and often inside. Maybe I need some practise and better technique. But then I don't like a tripod."

 

I have the MLU version which seems ok down to 1/30 in my hands. I don't mean I get pin-sharp pictures every time and the wlf helps here again but "available darkness" shooting with MF gear is... ermm... ;)

"The great thing about the Arax/Kiev 60 (and Pentacon 6TL) is not so much the price of the body, but the price of the lenses and accessories. The lenses are good, and there is a great range too. Everything from a 30mm fisheye that doesn't cost three mortgages, to a 1000mm lens."

 

Accessories are basically free and $289 for a fisheye and $378 for a 55mm PCS lens (new with warranty vs. *bay) isn't a bad deal.

Ok, there's the ISO setting in the meter too, but it's virtually impossible to change accidentally.