Japanese model

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by ken_austin|1, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. I recently ordered a D70s body on line for a very good price. During the
    sale, I found out why the price was so good. The salesman started trying to
    sell me lenses, batteries, etc. for outrageous prices, so much so that the
    overall price of the system was not such a good deal. I refused and he told
    me the camera would be useless without these items (like I couldn�t figure
    that out) and when I told him I already had these items, he proceeded to call
    me a liar.

    By all good measures I should have hung up on him, but I was so POed that I
    told him I wanted the camera anyway. He reluctantly took my order and gave me
    an order number, but didn�t ask for a shipping address. Then he told me it
    was on back order until after the first of the year.

    After I cooled off, I got to thinking that maybe he didn�t even take the
    order, so I called back. This time I got a different salesman, but just as
    arrogant. He confirmed that the order had been taken and that it was indeed
    on backorder but should be shipped out in a week or so. He then stated in on
    the same thing as the first salesman. After I finally convinced him I could
    use the camera without any additional parts (without calling me a liar), he
    told me the camera would be useless to me because it was a Japanese model not
    a USA model (trying to switch me over to a more expensive USA model).

    By now, I am so tired of having smoke blown in my ear, I told him I could
    speak Japanese (If I am going to be called a liar, I might as well be one!).
    He still did not ask for any shipping info, so I volunteered it. He said that
    they would get that information when the camera came in and they would call me
    and confirm that I still wanted it. Now I know what is coming.

    My question is, have I screwed up (I can still back out)? Is there really a
    difference between a Japanese model and a US Model?
     
  2. I bet the shop is based in Brooklyn, NY. No insults intended for those living in this place.

    You need to device a strategy to get out of this deal. You're wasting your time with these crooks and your money. All you get will be frustrations and stress. And, the savings (if any) you get will not amount to anything close to the psychological trauma you're getting.

    Call them and cancel the order. Be ready to deal with resistance. And, don't give them anymore personal info ... please.
     
  3. Hi, Ken,

    I think that the default setting of the language is Japanese on Japanese models, which should be the only difference:)

    By the way, does that shop offer so attractive a price of D70s that you want to call them repeatedly in spite of such arrogant attitude?
     
  4. ?? What kind of sales person was that calling the customer a liar ? Even if the customer is a liar, you don't say that to the customer.

    I think you have been over-patient with this shop. I wouldn't put up with that kind of attitude/service just to save a few more bucks if I were you.

    Think about what would happen if the camera was faulty, then you would have to deal with them again. Not worth it IMO.
     
  5. I hate to write this, but I don't think you will ever get the camera. Post the name of the place and you might find a lot of similar cases.
     
  6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch

    http://thomashawk.com/2005/11/priceritephoto-abusive-bait-and-switch.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/11/nyregion/11cameras.html

    http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/

    http://www.resellerratings.com/
     
  7. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Moderator

    Don't worry, they are not actually going to sell you a D70s at that "attractive" price, anyway. Did you give them your credit card number? If so, I would watch for abnormal charges on it.
     
  8. frankly ken, you seem to intelligent and articulate to get sucked into such a scam. call immediately and cancel all your dealings with said company and then instruct your credit card company not to accept any charges from them.

    life is way too short to worry about saving a few dollars like that. if you want to save money on a D70s, I'd buy a used one. Or better, wait a few weeks and buy a D80.
     
  9. Hm, I thought these things never happen in America. What low life bastards, shouldn't some kind of state-agency (costumer protection? we have it even in Romania) take care of these guys?
     
  10. Wow � I didn�t expect so may useful responses so fast. Thanks.

    Arthur, -- yes, that particular shop was based in Brooklyn NY. Have you had dealings with them before?

    Akira,-- thanks for the info. I assumed that the Japanese settings can be changed to US!

    To all � the price of the camera was $319 for the body only. That was up from a $299 sale price the previous weekend. I thought that was a pretty good deal. And probably will be if I don�t have to put up with anymore male bovine feces out of them.


    Ken
     
  11. Ken: what everyone is trying to tell you is that you were scammed.

    People like you are suckered into believing that they can get an unrealisticly low prices on goods, then get the hard sell on items at inflated prices that they don't want or need. If you don't agree to buy these items the camera will suddenly become unavailable.

    These are classic moves, we've seen it done for years.

    Listen carefully: Stay away from these places, period. Don't think they're telling you the truth about anything, and consider what it means for you to be called a liar by a salesman.

    Buy from a reputable dealer and consider this a lesson in credulity.

    Also: if you gave your credit card, call the card company, make sure nothing was charged, make a complaint and make sure they will not charge your card.
     
  12. I am an old geezer and I have had every type of sales tactic pulled on me that has ever been devised including bait and switch. I have the means, the willpower, and the cahonas necessary to give them a real run for their money. What I needed to know was if the $319 price was a good as it gets (for a D70s) and if the camera could be converted to U.S.

    The place is Royal Camera (royalcamera.com) and today that same camera is on sale for $300. I probably will call them back again and demand the latest sale price. I am a retired GI and they have just messed with the wrong soldier.

    Lock and load
     
  13. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Moderator

    What I needed to know was if the $319 price was a good as it gets (for a D70s) and if the camera could be converted to U.S.
    Ken, you will not get a new D70s at $319 today in any fair purchase and there is no Japanese model to begin with. Therefore, there is no such thing as "converting" it to US. You can demand it at $319 for all you want, they'll simply tell you that it is "not in stock."
     
  14. If this had not actualy happened to a real person, i'd think this was funny. I've always wondered what would happen if someone just insisted on buying the camera without all that other overpriced stuff. Well, now I know.

    You see all these "reviews" on low cost sellers "they were the best", "good service" , "quick shipping" etc... It appears that search engines with phony reviews may just be fronts to direct people to these places in NYC.

    I would call the credit card company and alert them...and please beleive the people on this forum about deals sounding too good to be true.

    Good luck.
     
  15. Thomas, -- you are right, it is funny, or at least fun to me. and Peter, the perverted pleasure I get is besides being a computer geek and amateur photographer, I, being retired, have nothing better to do.

    So here�s what I did. I called back again to check status. This time I get a third salesman who was much nicer. I told him that the first salesman had called me a liar and that I didn�t appreciate that, and that the second wasn�t much nicer. He confirmed that the camera was indeed on order and informed me that the difference between the Japanese model (he referred to it as the import model) was the warranty (if it broke I would have to send it back to Japan). He agreed to cancel the $319 order and give it to me for $300.

    When he started the bait and switch, I did my own lying. I told him that I had an old D70 which had broke and it would cost more to repair than buying a new body and all I needed was the body only (which is almost true � I am upgrading from a D50).

    The new D70s should be shipped in two to three weeks. If I do not hear from them within that time, I�ll be calling back. They have the so-called US models in stock and if they can�t deliver the import model, they will be looking at shipping me a US model.

    My credit card has not been charged yet, so for now, I�m going to hang in there.

    PS The D50 is on for $255.00 but they were not advertising a D80 yet. Look at:

    http://www.royalcamera.com/digital-cameras-nikon.html

    When in doubt, aim low.
    One shot, one kill.
    Lock and load.
     
  16. Quick! Call again! It's now showing $269!! This is a much better imaginary deal than yours, and equally likely to be honoured...
     
  17. you might get shot in the end ken, even before you can lock and load.
    a lot of the 'spotters' in this forum have asked you not to deal with them.
     
  18. 1. Nothing's for nothing. 2. If it sounds too good to be true ... it probably is. 3. There's no free lunch. 4. How many times did my mother say "And if your friends were going to jump off the bridge [Brooklyn] would you do it too?" 5. So ... I have this really nice deal on a bridge to buy... in Brooklyn.

    Can you tell us where and which store this is so that everyone else can avoid the same aggravation? Sometimes paying a little more or at least what all the big photo stores are charging makes sense. After all where does a relatively unknown business come by "cheap" camera equipment? And would you trust where it came from any more than I would buy film without some assurance that it had been kept properly.

    I feel the pain. If you see a good deal on a D80, I'm all ears.
     
  19. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Moderator

    Ken, I sure hope that you are not in any kind of hurry. The $319 (or $300, $269 or whatever) imported model has never been in stock and never will be. So Royal Camera will call you back in a few days and try to sell you a regular one at regular prices. Maybe by then the D80 will be out and you can get a slightly better deal on the D70s old model.

    I guess it is ok to play this kind of game if you have all the time in the world and nothing better to do.
     
  20. '5. So ... I have this really nice deal on a bridge to buy... in Brooklyn.'

    Also available online:

    http://www.richard-seaman.com/USA/Cities/NewYork/BrooklynBridge/ForSale.html

    'Can you tell us where and which store this is so that everyone else can avoid the same aggravation?'

    From Ken's link, it looks like these guys:

    http://forums.photographyreview.com/showthread.php?t=3858

    http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1895-p2-s1-d1.html

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff122683.htm

    http://www.complaints.com/directory/2004/december/9/23.htm

    http://www.photo.net/neighbor/view-one-about?id=2&about=Royal+Camera+%28NY%29

    http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0009.htm
     
  21. Hi Ken,

    For additional advice about similar experiences, you might search photo.net for its list of 1,120 "Gray Market" threads!

    Sincerely,

    Dave
     
  22. If anybody here wants a good laugh today, check out royalcamera's website. They've got a 5D body for $1415! I'm still laughing.
     
  23. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Moderator

    See also:
    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00EVj5
     
  24. I've noticed that Japanese models, for the most part, are not able to converse in English very fluently so it isn't just an issue of changing some setting. Rather it's always a good idea to take them out to dinner and buy them a few drinks first.

    I'm really not sure what this means.

    Dave
     
  25. You might find this interesting, Ken:

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21&q5=Royal%2BCamera&submit=Search
     
  26. Here's some useful advice. If you're really trying to stick it to them it ought to work.

    Find a local lawyer who does consumer law. The Federal Trade Commission has, and your state consumer protection act may, have rules against "bait and switch" transactions. Many lawyers who practice in this area will take such a case on a contingency basis.

    Have fun.

    And, oh yes, let me know what happens.
     
  27. Call this a rant or not, but if some lowlife speaking to me from a retail establishment treated me rudely on a phone and called me a liar, I'd reply with something equally if not more ugly and hang up.

    And, it's absolutely criminal that the state and city of New York have allowed (by inaction) these operations to exist, period.
     
  28. These operations close and reopen all the time. They change address all the time, and are
    very slippery. New York goes after them on occasion, but these places are hard to track.
    They do not have storefronts, they have mailing addresses that are abandoned apartments
    and so on. There was a website that showed the addresses of some of these places, I
    forget what link is though. In any case, DON'T GIVE THEM YOUR CREDIT CARD OR
    ADDRESS! These are not camera stores. They simply aren't. They don't carry any stock, and
    they will only fill your order if they can find a way to screw you. They will either sell you a
    used camera for a new price, send you a broken camera, send you no camera at all, or
    worse. They are only out to take your money. There is no point trying to "lock and load"
    and go after them, because they are like cockroahes. As soon as the light shines on them
    they disappear. They will just open up under a different name and start again.
     
  29. By the way, here is your store:
    <P>
    http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0009.htm

    <P>It has a few other aliases: Camera City Inc., d.b.a. CCI Camera City (CCICameraCity.com),
    a.k.a. Royal Camera and Video Inc. (RoyalCamera.com), and The Camera Source, Inc., d.b.a.
    TCSCamera.com, TheCamerasSource.com, a.k.a. BananaBoatCamera.com
     
  30. Ken:

    With all due respect - it's a losing cause similar to trying to have a conversation with a drunk ...

    I would simply let it go & move on - your time would be better served elsewhere.

    I would also seriously consider canceling your CC & get a new one - they could always say some guy broke in & took some paperwork ... especially if you continue to badger them.

    It simply a camera - not a war & no need to fight to the death over what is already known about these types of places.

    By the way - would you go to the same area to buy a car?

    By the way - welcome to photo.net
     
  31. If you want to play perverse games with thieves who have your credit card info... have fun.
     
  32. These salespeople probably are reading this thread roling on the floor.
     
  33. I know it's been said many times, but it is a scam. I tried to buy a camera once and just walked away because if they ever sold it to me for that price I would take it or refuse the transaction, pretty easy when you trust your credit card.

    The interesting part was that I had the time to research and most of these companies are owned by the same place. Even a DNS look up showed the same Host and IP address. Once they get enough negatives in the reseller lists they change names.

    I have found a few reputable places that get you a decent deal and you still get it.
     
  34. ky2

    ky2

    "If you want to play perverse games with thieves who have your credit card info... have fun."

    I for once, agree with Z here.
     
  35. Ken,

    I have been reading this post since yesterday, you now have replies from 24 different people saying you shouldn't do this. I'll be number 25.

    It seems you are very determined to loose your 300 dollars. The D70s is advertised on the B&H website for 699.95 dollars. It is not in stock at the moment, but it will be shortly. I have dealt with B&H on several occasions and you can absolutely trust them. As someone pointed out before, B&H have a shop where you can actually buy the camera and meet the people behind the counter. Royal Camera and several others in the area are crooks. There is no way they will sell you the camera for 300 dollars. That means they would have to buy it in Japan for approximately 200 dollars, ship it over to the US and still make a profit on the sale, including the salesman's commission. These salespeople work on a commission basis only, that is why they are so eager to sell you all the extra items you don't need or want.

    I used to work in timeshare. The salespeople would tell lie after lie and make up a beautiful story, too good to be true. Still, out of every 10 people they toured, 2 to 3 would buy. I was the guy who closed the deals, backed up all the lies, got the contracts signed and, more importantly, got their credit cards. We used to have a saying that was repeated in every sales meeting: "It doesn't matter what you tell them, it's how you tell them. Make your presentation convincing." If someone wanted to cancel, we would threaten them with legal action for breach of contract. That usually did the trick. If they still wanted to cancel, we would just keep their deposit. Easy money. I'm glad to say I quit the job after two months, I just couldn't handle it.

    What Royal Camera is trying to do is exactly the same: get your money. They don't care about you as a customer or about the camera they are trying to sell. They don't have customers. They don't have the camera. These are the human equivalents of pitbull terriers. It doesn't matter how they do it, but that is their ultimate goal: to get your credit card details. Even if you back out now, they still might charge you for what they call "reservation deposit", "stockage fee" or whatever. These people are ripping you off, because that is what they do for a living. If it gets too hot under their feet, they close and start somewhere else under a different name.

    Back out now and buy some gear from a reputable dealer, there are loads of them. 300 dollars will buy you a nice new lens. There are better things to do with your time and money. You might as well drive over to Brooklyn, park your car with doors and windows unlocked and leave those 300 dollars on the passenger seat. You'll loose your money just as quickly and easily.
     
  36. Reading all these comments made me reluctant to go to royalcamera.com,

    I was afraid they would put a spyware on my pc as soon as I click the link.

    Ken , I know what kind of person you are, and I bet your own family don't like you. I know someone just like you, and I pity his sons and daughter, they are always frowning, as if showing the world that they're not happy with thier lives.

    You are not a normal person, you are abnormal, you should admit it. But you can change , no matter how old you are.

    As for the scammers, I hope bad karma will get them soon.
     
  37. ky2

    ky2

    "These are the human equivalents of pitbull terriers."

    I think that's an insult to pitbull terriers...
     
  38. I just finished reading all the links some other posters sent in. Some scary stuff, you're dealing with one of the worst compamies ever.

    By the way, I found a picture of one of Royal Camera's salesmen.
     
  39. This one also works at Royal Camera, but he's trying to disguise himself as something else.

    By the way, is it OK to post pictures I found on the Internet using google or yahoo search engine ? If not, feel free to delete my posts. I by no means claim these pictures to be mine.
     
  40. i bought D50 with 18-55mm last year for $620 from one such store(now don't even remember the name), at that time B&H, adorama were selling it for $720. I was asked to call them after placing order and the order taker offer me too many things but i simply said ... whatever it is whether the camera will work or not without the offer just send me whatever i have ordered and i got it what i wanted for -$100, not bad
     

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