vic_. Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Herr Hans Beckert made some important points in another section of this forum (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg? msg_id=0074HY), and since a lot of you don�t venture outside the Leica section of photo.net I thought I�d put these up here. (Note: I�m not trying to ridicule Herr Beckert, he makes a very convincing argument.) <P> <BR>Photography is absolutely NOT 'art'. A photograph is made by mechanical device: the lens. If you paint the light onto the film with your hand and a flashlight, then it is art. <P>To all who have not gotten the point <BR>[snip personal info] <BR>1. 'The hand': The point is that in photography, the image itself is CREATED BY A MECHANISM. Of course we have control of the mechanism, but that does not make it art. <BR>2. 'Uniqueness': No two painting or sculptures could ever be absolutely identical, whether made by the same artist or two different ones. Subtle differences are apparent in even the greatest copyists' work. Photographs CAN be absolutely identical, and if you put a motor drive on a still life, you can reel off 36 exposures that are for all practical purposes, identical. If my assistant pushes the shutter accidentally, his is indistinguishable from mine. <BR>I have no opposition to saying there are 'artistic elements' in photography that are shared with painting: composition, etc., but these do not make it 'art'. <BR>No doubt, no question: photography CANNOT be art! [End of selected quotes] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_perlis Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 [shrug] Okay, so it ain't "Art" according to Herr Hans. What's for lunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Not even worthy of comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_. Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 doesn't matter. I still gotta go take pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 Hey, it's snowing heavily here, and it's too cold to go out to make any art, so I was poking around the "forum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers_. Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 That thread has gone on for four days and it's nothing but how to name a procedure. I consider myself a 'fartiste'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 I never was an artist.. ANd I never let anyone trigger my shutter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tito sobrinho Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Herr Hans, with his thoughts, went back more than 100 years ago i.e. the fight between painters and photographers. Amazing! he just woke up like Rip van Winkle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_couvillion Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 This thread belongs in the Philosophy of Photography Forum: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=Philosophy%20of%20Photography&topic_id=1941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidv1 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 If Betsy the finger-painting chimpanzee can make art, I think photography is standing on solid ground: http://www.sunspot.net/entertainment/bal-li.family08jan08,0,6180112.story?coll=bal-live-headlines Or just Google for 'Baltimore Zoo chimpanzee art'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markci Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 I guess if "important points" and "convincing arguments" consist of making up your own completely unfounded and outright silly definition of art, and then making a couple of tiresome and extremely obvious observations about how photography doesn't fit your bogus definition, then yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markci Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 <i>If Betsy the finger-painting chimpanzee can make art, I think photography is standing on solid ground:</i><p>No, David, you don't get it. The chimp uses her fingers, so that's art. HCB and Ansel used a camera, so that's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 <I>No, art must be made by hand. -Hans</I><P>Since music except the purely vocal kind of song) is made with instruments, then music is clearly not an "art." <P>Since sculpture is made by either casting metal, carving stone with a chisel, or with a potter's wheel -- all of which ae clearly machines. Sculpture is not "art".<P>Since a brush or even a stick is a kind of tool, paintings made by any method other than daubing paint directly onto canvas paper or board , are most definitely not "art". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art waldschmidt Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Herr Beckert's assumption is (to utilize a phrase by Herr Barnack) "totally underexposed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean_. Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Now that's funny, I would not have imagined anyone bringing up something like this in 2004. Hmm, what's next - how about claiming the earth is flat? They had very convincing points back then to proof this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidv1 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Mark - sure hope you're kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_merrill Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Is it Art or art? I always thought art had more to do with creativity and idea than by how it was done. Silly me. Is literature art or does it have to be handwritten to be considered art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 The guy must be into hand jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h._p. Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 OK. Is this time for the killer smiley????<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidv1 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Harvey - yes, it's 'performance art'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland_larson Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 I suppose 'uniqueness' (as summarised by Vic at the beginning of this thread) is related to 'orignality'. That means, had I been Ansel Adams' assistant and shot side by side with him with identical everything (that is, lens, film, composition, developement ...) and got a somewhat identical looking print, I would have compromised his masterpiece by relegating it non-art ? Far from it. In this regard, originality counts, it's just the nature of photography as an art-creating process that facilitates a close copy. Not with me ? Think of copying a piece of work that was awarded a Nobel Prize for Literature. What say you gentleman ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Where�s the pancake on the rabbit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djl251 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Herr Hans Beckert - My my - we're a little puffed up with ourselves aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland_larson Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 ... and what Harvey just did was simply begging the moderator to have this thread deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 For God's sakes Vic, we just got Herr Beckert in his jammies and off to bed over at Philosophy of Photography and you go waking him up again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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