Illegal Rave Project

<p>Hii :]</p>

<p>Im a fine art / documentary photography student at university and I am just about to go into my final year. <br>

For my final year project I have decided to do a documentary study of illegal rave culture in the UK. <br>

My project is split into three sections :<br>

A dissertation exploring the way subcultures and minorities have been captured and portrayed with documentary photography.<br>

A negotiated study exploring the best way to capture rave culture. I will be experimenting with photography and moving image.<br>

A final major project using the medium I found had the best results during my experimental negotiated study. This part of the project will not only include documentation of the raves themselves, but also interviews and portraiture work of party goers and the people that organise them, location work of where raves have happened accompanied by a news paper report of that specific rave and possibly some sort of graphic design. The final piece is likely to be a book and a series of images for exhibition OR a documentary film if I find that is the best medium to capture illegal rave culture.</p>

<p>I did a mini project on the illegal rave scene just before christmas :</p>

<p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/emilyjaynegriffin/sets/72157623443197942/</p>

<p>As you can see, I will be working in a dark environment where there is usually little to no light. However a lot of my shots will be also be taken in the day time as raves can go from late saturday night to late sunday afternoon. It is also a fast paced, unpredictable environment.</p>

<p>I would be interested to hear your thoughts on my project and any possible idea's of practitioners I could research.<br>

I am also interested in what medium of photography you believe would be best for my project? My tutor suggested medium format, but I have been discussing this with people of the medium format forum and they disagree and believe I should work primarily in digital, but also experiment with 35mm. <br>

I currently have an entry level DSLR and would be interested in whether there are any specific lenses or flashes I should look at using that would suit my project?<br>

And I am also interested in discovering which 35mm camera/lenses/flashes etc would be good for my project?<br>

Any help will be much appreciated!!!<br>

Emily :]</p>

 

<p>I hope you reiterate my points in the previous post. I hope you get more help here. Some of the comments from the previous MF post was pretty awful.</p>

<h3><a onmousedown="return rwt(this,'','','res','3','AFQjCNHGJ3cCbF-b1bOjpfhv3HbpEgbFSw','V0i1YDbHFH7Zea1NP88Bhg','0CCMQFjAC')" href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reiterate"><em> </em></a></h3>

<p>You might look into getting a good flash and experiment with bouncing it to avoid blowing out the faces as you did in the linked pictures.</p>

<p>No rave but still very dark...<br>

<a><img src="http://static.zooomr.com/images/9211507_905a25549c_b.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="575" /></a><br>

...regular P&S w/on camera flash ISO 800 (or 400) maybe 1 - 1.5 meter away</p>

<p>Image what you can do with a dslr with an off camera flash...OR no flash but ISO 3200 and a fast 1.8 (or 1.4) lens. Really, no need to spend thousands buying a hasselblad, a leica M or whatever MF system you've been told. Just get creative and experiment. Don't worry about tools and cameras so much as getting the shots you envision.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Where is Jeff S. and Eric A? They shoot concert/shows for a living...</p>

<p>I would be wary about associating myself with illegal activity without having the backing of a bigger organization. Even if you aren't doing anything illegal yourself, being in the wrong place at the wrong time can end up costing you: <a href="http://photozz.com/fizz/4820993.aspx">http://photozz.com/fizz/4820993.aspx</a></p>

<p> </p>

<p>Leslie, I really like that image you put up, what camera was it taken on? <br>

I would like to experiment with a 35mm and a digital SLR, but I am unsure of what 35mm to go for and what lenses and accessories to go for for both. </p>

<p>And I am aware of the dangers of shooting in an illegal environment, but I always feel completely safe at raves and have never faced any hostility from party goers or the Police. I have also been going to raves for a few years before deciding to document them, so I am very familiar with the environment I will be working it :]</p>

<p>Forget film unless you have the ability to do all processing for free at college. Even then be very prepared for much frustration.</p>

<p>From your linked images I would suggest a used Canon 5D and an old 16-35 f2.8 or 17-35 f2.8 zoom. The other approach would be a rangefinder but digital ones of those are silly money. Good P&S cameras can work but the shutter lag on most of them makes them too impractical for good documentary work unless you are very familiar with their short comings, and high iso, low light, is very much their Achilles heel.</p>

<p>I don't think the "be careful" advice is directed at your personal safety, more that if your works become higher profile the fact that you were there documenting illegal activities opens grey areas of the law with regards complicity. As a documentarian if you knew an illegal act was going to take place but did nothing to warn the authorities you have some, as yet undetermined, culpability.</p>

<p>If you're adamant about shooting 35mm film and have the resources/facilities for processing and scanning, then consider using a good point & shoot with a built-in flash, such as a Contax T2 (do a search on P.net for similar cameras). If you want to add an unnatural element to the colours, shoot slide film and cross process it (email me for which films give which results when X-pro'd). Alternatively, if you still want to shoot MF, get yourself a couple of Holgas with flash hot shoes, a small but powerful flash and shoot either Fujifilm Acros (100) for B&W or Kodak Portra (NC or VC 100) for colour. Get up close and expect surprises. For a sharp MF 6x4.5 P&S, look at the Fujifilm GA645 series, which has autofocus and built-in flash.</p>

<p>I took a quick look thru your Flickr set and first impressions are you need to get closer and a little more creative with what and how you shoot. I think it is an excellent project and you obviously feel comfortable in such an environment. Did you miss out on the Pembrokeshire one just in the news?<br /> <br /><br /> <a title="USED by AsiaAttic, on Flickr" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanscape/3841183753/"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/3841183753_01d226b0c8_b.jpg" alt="USED" /></a> Tokyo Booze Cruise | Kodak E200@800 X-Pro, OM-1</p>

<p>One facet you may wish to explore (which I found fascinating when I looked at it) is the disparity between illegal raves and legal ones. You'll find a huge gap in the type of patronage, execution, and also media coverage. <br>

Any illegal rave, if discovered, is immediately reported in a negative light. However, you'll generally find less incidences of trouble at the illegal functions as opposed to the larger ones. Just my $0.02</p>

<p>Scott, I'm not so sure about the complicity business... plenty of photographers have slipped into the underworld and presented their works to the public. What about writers and photographers who document the seamy side of life and get involved with pimps, prostitutes, drug addicts and crooks major and crooks minor?... I don't think there's going to be legal repercussions in anybody's future for taking pictures; especially retroactively.</p>

<p>Fi,</p>

<p>There is a difference in taking an image of a gangland "boss", and knowing when he has organised a bank robbery and going there to photograph it. That is a boundary that law enforcement seems to be pushing against, when is a documentarian an accessory? The law is quite clear, but some people believe if they are "documenting" an action it absolves them of any responsibilities, but it does not, don't get me wrong I don't really care what people concentrate on and if they are not hurting anybody then continue (like unlicensed raves). If you happened to be at the scene of a robbery, fine, if you had fore knowledge then you are an accessory, that was the whole point of Eric's link, that was just about graffiti and look at the trouble and expense that photographer incurred. Now just imagine the repercussions if somebody had been hurt during that project.</p>

<p>I don't think Emily's idea is wrong, but you would be a fool to do this type of project without knowing, and understanding, your responsibilities.</p>

<p>You first need to explain what is so illegal about this. Is it an unlicensed event? If so, are the attendees going to arrested for being there? These kinds of events happen here in San Francisco, and they have lookouts and shut down as soon as the police show up. If it's a bunch of people just hanging around when the police show up, it's highly unlikely anything is going to happen except to the organizers. As Fi says, there aren't going to be any legal repercussions, there are photographers who have photographed a lot of criminal activity without having a problem.</p>

<p>The next thing is to forget about medium format, it's a ridiculous idea. These types of events are all about mobility, and a medium format camera is going to be a pain. Even a digicam is going to be more fruitful. Also, focusing in the dark is going to be difficult.<br>

<br />What really works in this kind of environment is probably going to be an inexpensive DSLR with a wide zoom and a flash that has focus assist, preferably not the kind of focus assist that blinks rapidy before it fires, the kind that projects a pattern on the subject. Get the best dedicated flash for your existing camera that you can find. Then drag the shutter and check the results regularly. Dragging the shutter will let you use flash and still get dynamics in the photo. Available light is almost always unusable in these environments.</p>

<p><center><img src="http://spirer.com/images/partybang.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="525" /><br>

<em>Bang-Bang Party</em></center></p>

<blockquote>

<p>Leslie, I really like that image you put up, what camera was it taken on? <br /> I would like to experiment with a 35mm and a digital SLR, but I am unsure of what 35mm to go for and what lenses and accessories to go for for both.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks, it was a Ricoh either the GX100 or GRD2. Probably the GX100 'cause the shot looks wider than a 28mm. I would not use film due to developing/processing cost and I like to experiment and see results on the fly.</p>

<p>As for lenses, I like to be up close and personal so I tend to use a wide zoom (or fixed 24mm, 28mm and 35mm) but use what make you feel comfy. If you are a little on the shy side, maybe a 50mm or a 85mm to give you more working distance. Experiment with slow sync flash and dragging the shutter. As for MF, maybe use it to shoot portraits during the daytime interview part of the project but it's a pain shooting the actual dancing/ambient flashing lights sequences as Jeff said.</p>

<p>And if you're going the film route, Fuji Press 800, tri-X(pull or push), delta 3200 and maybe x-process E6s for cool effects as Clive F suggested.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Thankyou everyone for all the advice you've given me! I've definately got a lot to think about before I jump into shooting! All of your advice is much appreciated! Thanks again :]</p>

<p>covering raves? drink plenty of water so you dont get dehydrated.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>As you can see, I will be working in a dark environment where there is usually little to no light. However a lot of my shots will be also be taken in the day time as raves can go from late saturday night to late sunday afternoon. It is also a fast paced, unpredictable environment.<br>

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on my project and any possible idea's of practitioners I could research.<br /> I am also interested in what medium of photography you believe would be best for my project? My tutor suggested medium format, but I have been discussing this with people of the medium format forum and they disagree and believe I should work primarily in digital, but also experiment with 35mm. <br /> I currently have an entry level DSLR and would be interested in whether there are any specific lenses or flashes I should look at using that would suit my project?<br /> And I am also interested in discovering which 35mm camera/lenses/flashes etc would be good for my project?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>emily, you dont mention which entry level DSLR you have. that can make a difference because low-light+fast motion = high ISO if you're shooting avail. light.also, we can't really recommend specific gear if we dont know what you're working with now.</p>

<p>jeff's advice is spot-on, though. wide zooms are good--maybe even a fisheye, though you wouldnt want that to be your only lens--forget medium format and film, except for stylized portraits where you have a LOT of time to set up the shot. and external flash will be your friend.</p>

<p>i have shot both outdoor/daytime "raves" and the nighttime variety. if you're doing midnight to noon type events, my advice is don't overshoot. meaning, choose your shots wisely and try to get the most iconic and original images you can. if you are also doing PJ stuff, i.e. interviewing, then photos are pretty easy to get, just do them before or after the interview. in general, crowd shots or shots showing people with background action are good to set mise-en-scene, but what's gonna make the thing work is people shots. this means engaging with your subjects, getting them relaxed, and making an attempt at portraiture under somewhat extreme conditions.</p>

<p>shooting at dawn can yield some fantastic results if you use available light. you will need fast lenses and high ISOs for this.</p>

<p>shooting at night, you may need to maximize ambient light, even with flash. think about artistic use of blur and how to achieve it--using slow shutter speeds with flash and/or rear-curtain, panning, zooming, etc. when i shoot at clubs, i've found that people taking cigarette breaks can make good subjects...sometimes in those cases i forgo the flash and use a fast 1.4 or 1.8 lens</p>

<p>daytime shots are easier because you can use available light more, though you may still need/want to use flash for fill.</p>

<p>ultimately it comes down to environment...a warehouse has different aesthetics than an outdoor party. learn to "read" your environment and shoot accordingly.</p>

<p>i think you can also do some video along with photography, but you need more than just a casual set up if you are doing a documentary which will air anywhere other than the Internet. it's pretty easy to do multimedia stuff these days, though.</p>

<p>let's see, i'll try to find a couple of good examples for you</p><div></div>

<p>here's another...</p><div></div>

<p>one more</p><div></div>

<p>I have a canon E0S 400D. That's what I used to shoot the Rave pictures on Flickr. I think I just used a standard 18-55mm lens. Nothing special. I also have a really old 35mm Pentax MV1 and Diana F+ which I could experiment with.<br>

Once I've experimented with each, I will then have a clear rationale for choosing to work in digital and can then look into investing in a faster, wide angle lens. I'm not too good with the technical stuff...can you get fast wide angle lenses?! haha!<br>

I think the key thing I need to do is set up some experiments in a similar environment. I just wanna start shooting now!! Haha!</p>

<p>emily, i generally like fast zoom lenses and even faster primes for this kind of work. at the least i would take an external flash if i was shooting nightclubs with just a kit lens.</p>

<div></div>

<p>Emily - MF is a no-no for several reasons, but that said has some big advantages too, but the no-no's outweigh them for me.</p>

<p>As mentioned by Leslie above and it caught your attention - consider a Ricoh GRD prefereably the GRD3 - it is tiny, has a very fast razor sharp f1.9 lens, with its tiny sensor gives massive depth of focus, can use in-built or additional flash, and most importantly has zero time lag when pressing the shutter, and can do sequential stuff too of several frames in a second. The results are really very very good, if not better. A camera like this will allow you to work quickly, discretely, and very mobile. It's capable of quite stunning results if used properly. With the tiny optical viewfinder on top you can shoot incredibly quickly and without fuss. I'd say get your hands on one and see if it fits. Some links to images from these cameras that might give you some sense of direction: mostly GRD3</p>

<p>This lot from Flickr mostly GRD2 and 3 http://fiveprime.org/flickr_hvmnd.cgi?method=GET&sorting=Interestingness&photo_type=250&page=3&noform=t&search_domain=Tags&photo_number=50&sort=Interestingness&tag_mode=all&textinput=grdiii&search_type=Tags</p>

<p>And also Abbie T-S who uses a GRD: http://www.abbietraylersmith.com/albums/still-here-still-human-i.html</p>

<p>And Daido Moriyama, a noted GRD user: http://www.thememagazine.com/stories/daido-moriyama/</p>

<p>And some Japanese stuff: http://tw.grfan.net/showthread.php?s=c4f59d38f1e07674a48f26e352c21f05&t=7677</p>

<p>And Wouter Brandsma: http://wouter28mm.wordpress.com/</p>

<p>Sounds like a great project. Good luck and hope this helps narrow the choices.</p>

<p>None of the photos in the links provided are even remotely connected to the topic at hand.</p>

<p>BTW, the photo I posted above was taken with a Fuji F30.</p>

<p>Jeff - whilst I respect your opinions and the generally sound advice you invariably offer, some of which has greatly enlightened me, you can be a real pedant at times. And with respect, this is one of those rare times.</p>

<p>Glad you took the time to plough through the thousands of images before you posted your informed response though.</p>

<p>Edit: And in truth I suspect the best person to decide on the worth of my post is probably the OP.</p>

<p>FWIW the set of photos is nothing special. Forget about pleasing some old faddy-duddy lecturer who thinks about a medium format rig! Truth be told it's when folks can't see small negatives and worse get profound. You need to get closer, get involved. You are "in" you are "there". Simplify. Look at Jeff Spirer's work. i often don't agree with his opinion but this time "dead on". More equipment not the answer, move your body, be a participant..Exchange photos or digital images for your subjects. Less mundane in or out of the "illegal" rave? Use your digital slr. Try a point and shoot also.. You might be surprised! I did stuff at a Fetish shoot(with permission) using a tiny Pentax digital Optio. Film, 400iso,Fuji,Pentax Me-Super,50mmf1.7, Vivitar 2300 strobe. It was a suspension series. I was so close, I "flew" on the "power exchange"!</p>