Good Beginner 35mm?

<p>I'm taking a photography class at my local community college. The teacher said that we need a fully manual 35mm camera. Apertures, shutter speeds, and focus should all be adjustable, and it should have an internal light meter. I just want suggestions on what models you think would be good for this, I'm a complete beginner. Preferably something not to expensive.</p>

<p>I would suggest perhaps a Nikon FM/FM2 or FE/FE2 or a Canon A1. You could go for something cheaper like a Canon AV-1 which is aperture priority but essentially manual, or perhpas a Ricoh KR-5, or a Minolta X300.</p>

<p>If it should be really unexpensive look for a Praktica or a Zenith with M42 thread.</p>

<p>I will assume you need film vs digital. In that case, I love my Canon EOS 3. You can pick these up used for about 200 USD. have fun. <br>

<br />Cheers,<br>

Joel</p>

<p>The old Pentax K1000 35mm was the quintessential student camera. It meets all your class requirements and is dirt cheap but very rugged and reliable. Pentax made a zillion of these cameras so they should still be readily available from any place that sells used 35mm cameras. You should be able to find one on eBay for about $50.</p>

<p>Danny Low</p>

 

<p>I believe that the standard camera for students is the Pentax K1000. The "K" indicates that the lens mount is the later bayonet type, as opposed to the earlier M42 screw mount.</p>

<p>There are cheaper equivalents from Ricoh and other manufacturers, which use the same lens mount and are functionally identical. </p>

<p>If you live in or near a large town or city, look around the charity shops (called "goodwill" shops in the US, I believe). There are often very nice cameras available for very little money in such places.</p>

<p>The classics (K1000, Canon AE1 etc.) are a bit pricy now. I'd look for a Minolta x-300 with the 50mm f1.7 lens. Fully manual with aperture priority available too. Loads of cheap lenses available as well. The x-700 would be fine too.</p>

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<p>Apertures, shutter speeds, and focus should all be adjustable, and it should have an internal light meter.</p>

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<p>Basically, <em>ANY</em> SLR (or DSLR) can do this. I would verify with the teacher if it must be fully manual with no automatic options available at all (which means you'll need one of the older cameras already mentioned - which often can be a bit more expensive because essentially, they're beautiful cameras), OR that your camera must allow for each of these to be available fully manual - in which case, you could also consider getting the dirt-cheap AF consumer bodies such as a Canon EOS300, Nikon F65 etc.</p>

<p>If the cource curriculum contains film developing, photo-chemical printing, and wet darkroom techniques, then you surely need a film camera.</p>

<p>Otherwise get a digital DSLR camera that has manual mode, that you could really use, also after the cource is over.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>unless the teacher specifically said <strong>film</strong> get a digital DSLR - they all have manual mode</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The Pentax K1000 would fit the bill, but you can very often find the Pentax KX model with the same capability for a lower price and get a more robust camera. If you don't need a manual-exposure only model there are tons of great deals out there. The Minolta X-370 has the ability to set aperture and shutter speed and also has an automatic (aperture priority) mode and they go for under $20 on eBay.</p>

<p>Despite the chorus of "get a DSLR" you can still buy film and still get it developed for cheap. Take a look at thedarkroom.com to see how quick and cheap it is. </p>

<p>I still use the K1000 I bought in 1979. However, keep in mind that as long as you can focus, set the aperture and the shutter speed, it doesn't matter whatsoever what camera you use, and whatever lens it came with will be more than good enough for any kind of picture. Just get whatever one you can find that works. For student purposes, you might consider paying a bit more for a camera that has been refurbished or at least checked out by a camera shop or a known camera reseller. If I were you, I would look for a manual only camera, if only because some of the auto and semi-auto cameras have limitations when used manually. This is why the K1000 is so often recommended. It's just you and the 3 basic controls.</p>

<p>There is still a relatively inexpensive brand new 35 mm SLR available from Nikon. At least you would know that the meter and shutters speeds are accurate.</p>

<p>If you need to get a film camera and expect to get a digital SLR later then I might recommend getting a Minolta with the Minolta AF lens mount. Really for no other reason than you could still use all your lenses on a Sony digital SLR later. There is a lot of really good used Minolta glass out there for relatively low prices. I'm not sure what the lens body compatibilities are on the other brands, but I think Canon changed lens mounts somewhere along the line and older lenses will not work on new bodies. Whatever brand you do go with, inform yourself about the lens/camera compatibilities so that you can make the most of any lens you buy now later.</p>

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<p><em>"If you need to get a film camera and expect to get a digital SLR later then I might recommend getting a Minolta with the Minolta AF lens mount. Really for no other reason than you could still use all your lenses on a Sony digital SLR later."</em></p>

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<p>The same could just as easily be said for Nikon, Canon and Pentax.</p>

<p>I'm with Wouter on this. Unless your class teacher insists on a manual focus, all mechanical, all manual film SLR, your least expensive and most flexible option is to get a late consumer model AF film SLR. Any of the entry level autofocus film SLRs from Canon, Nikon, Pentax or Minolta can do exactly as the class requires. Full and complete manual control of focus, shutter speed and aperture. Entry level bodies such as the Nikon N65, or any of the Canon Rebel film SLRs are available for dirt cheap giveaway prices. Same goes for Pentax or Minolta. Autofocus lenses that fit any of these bodies are available at low cost and can be used on a DSLR from the same manufacturer. No CLA service will be required on a lightly used AF film SLR of recent vintage, something that may very well be necessary with a 25 year old manual focus camera that at the very least will need new light seals.</p>

<p>Frankly the Pentax K1000 is somewhat overrated and overpriced for what it does. When manual focus film SLRs were current, it was good value for the money, and that's why so many photography classes recommended it. That same persistent recommendation today has resulted in somewhat inflated prices and a bit of a cult following. As an example, a K1000 in EX condition at KEH sells for $89, while the much more capable manual focus Minolta X-700 from the same era sells for $49. An autofocus Canon Rebel G sells for $25, a Canon EOS Elan for $23, a Nikon N65 for $19, and a Pentax PZ-20 for $16 (all in EX condition). Without debating the merits of a K1000 versus entry level plastic bodied AF SLRs, they can all do what is required for your class.</p>

<p>Save your money for film and processing. :)</p>

<p>I don't think the instructor is saying the camera needs to have no automation, only that it needs to include a fully manual mode. There are countless choices, and few wrong answers. If you're buying an old film camera for a class, shooting 35mm film doesn't have to be a lifetime commitment, you might mostly want it to get through the class.</p>

<p>My first new SLR I got while taking a photography class in 1989-90 was a Pentax P3n (P3, P30, P30T are similar). Has manual operation, also aperture-priority and full program AE are available but not required. Perfectly suitable for this purpose and easy to find cheap with a Pentax-A 50 f/2 or maybe even better if you can find one with a Pentax-A 50 f/1.7 but this difference should not be terribly important to your course. One feature of this camera that some would like and some dislike is that it automatically detects film speed via DX contacts, friendly to avoid mistakes but cannot be overriden easily for those who might want to deliberately rate film at a different speed than the box says.</p>

<p>Other good Pentax choices: Super Program, Program Plus, ME Super (not ME, it doesn't have full manual), KX, KM, K1000. These are all manual-focus-only, no motorized film advance. The K-bodies are a little larger and heavier than the rest (more metal, less plastic).</p>

<p>Most autofocus film SLRs are suitable as well as long as they have a manual exposure mode (most do). These also usually include motorized film advance, and generally are less well-suited for manual focus as they usually lack the focusing aids (split prism, microprism, etc.). Advantage is that they are generally newer, disadvantage is that they're hungrier for more expensive batteries.</p>

<p>Many used film cameras have been sitting around idle for many years. Ideally you can handle the camera first and run it through its paces with a good battery. If you don't feel confident (understandable for first SLR film camera), even better if you have someone who knows these to help you check it out first to see if it appears to be in basic working order. For reduced risk buy somewhere it's easy to return. It will cost a little more than a bargain auction or goodwill purchase but KEH is a reputable dealer of used equipment with a good reputation for returns/exchanges and conservative condition ratings.</p>

<p>There are a few gotchas out there. This is pedantic to mention, but just in case you stumble across them: DSLR cameras like the Canon Eos 750 and 850 are so automated that there's no way to select settings manually; some Nikons only partly support modern lenses (particularly when it comes to "G" lenses that have no way to set the aperture on the lens). Older Canon FD cameras may be cheap because the lenses are impractical to use on more recent SLR and DSLR systems (this also makes the lenses cheap, but if you move to a DSLR later then you'll have to buy new lenses). I mention this only in case Wouter's statement gives you a false sense of security. Nonetheless, there are some perfectly capable SLRs that are very cheap, and almost all of them (at least made since 1980 - before then, metering was rarer) have the functionality you need; a friend gave me an Eos 500 that's perfectly serviceable, for example. The nicer cameras (like a Canon Eos 3 or Nikon F100) cost more, and the most recent high end cameras (Canon Eos 1v, Nikon F6, Leica M7) are still very expensive as collectors' items, but you should be able to find something perfectly acceptable for not very much money. Lenses are slightly harder, although you should be able to find something like a 50mm f/1.8 from most manufacturers at a decent price, used. Good luck.</p>

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<p>If you need to get a film camera and expect to get a digital SLR later then I might recommend getting a Minolta with the Minolta AF lens mount. Really for no other reason than you could still use all your lenses on a Sony digital SLR later. There is a lot of really good used Minolta glass out there for relatively low prices. I'm not sure what the lens body compatibilities are on the other brands, but I think Canon changed lens mounts somewhere along the line and older lenses will not work on new bodies.</p>

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<p>Minolta changed lens mounts at the same time as Canon - when they introduced auto focus in the mid 1980s. The players not changing lens mounts at that time were Nikon and Pentax. Nobody changed lens mounts when going from film to digital.</p>

<p>Back to the OPs original question, IF you are allowed to use digital instead of film, I would recommend an older used DSLR. You can now pick up a Canon 20D for around $100, and cameras like the 300D (original digital Rebel) and 350D (Rebel XT) can be even cheaper. www.keh.com is a reliable online retailer for these kind of items, giving a 14 day warranty. Of course they offer film SLRs too.</p>

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<p>"Back to the OPs original question, IF you are allowed to use digital instead of film..."</p>

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<p><em>"The teacher said that we need a fully manual <strong>35mm camera</strong>. Apertures, shutter speeds, and focus should all be adjustable..."</em></p>

<p>That much seems quite unambiguous. :)</p>

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<p>That much seems quite unambiguous. :)</p>

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<p>I guess you are right, but as others have said, if the course includes traditional darkroom work that would make sense. If not, it wouldn't, and I'd try to argue that "35mm" could mean not large format, medium format, or sub-miniature, but 35mm format, which arguably might include 35mm format digital cameras. That could exclude my suggestion for an APS-C body (20D), but I'd spring $500 for a used 5D before wasting $200 on an EOS3! ;-)</p>

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<p>This is pedantic to mention, but just in case you stumble across them: DSLR cameras like the Canon Eos 750 and 850 are so automated that there's no way to select settings manually.</p>

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<p>While we are being pedantic, the 750 and 850 are not DSLRs, but film SLRs - 35mm for sure! ;-)<br>

<br />If you do need a film camera, my vote would be for a Minolta SRT.</p>

<p>Regarding re-use of manual film gear (lenses) on a current DSLRs, I bought my first Nikon 47 years ago (1966) and I'm still using the first lens I bought on my D800 (the lens was adapted to AI in the 70s so I could use an F3 body). The F3 body still works (manual or aperture priority) If I ever want to shoot film. The OP may find a good deal on an older Nikon with manual match-needle exposure setting and still be able to use any AI lenses he acquires on the latest Nikon DSLRs. FWIW, my 55mm f3.5 macro is a good match for the D800 sensor resolution.</p>

 

<p><em>"...if the course includes traditional darkroom work that would make sense. If not, it wouldn't,..."</em></p>

<p>No darkroom work is needed for the requirement to make sense. The course looks like an introduction to the basics of photography. The best way to learn the effects of aperture, shutter speed, focus points, etc. is to manually adjust them one by one and see the results. A totally manual camera insures that the student does not deliberately or accidentally go into a semi-auto or full auto mode. Since there are no digital cameras that has only manual mode, the course would have to use a 35mm film camera. The film and development could be by prior arrangement with a local lab so the student would not have to deal with the darkroom side of photography yet.</p>

<p>Danny Low</p>

 

<p>I talked to the teacher and it does have to be a film camera, so no dslr. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I've actually really been looking at the Canon A1. I haven't made a solid decision yet though, I'm going through and looking at everyone's suggestions.</p>

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<p>A totally manual camera insures that the student does not deliberately or accidentally go into a semi-auto or full auto mode</p>

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<p>Also a totally manual camera would not have some confusing features like "exposure compensation"</p>

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<p> I've actually really been looking at the Canon A1</p>

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<p>Because of the above reasons, I'd like to remind that the A1 is not a totally manual camera. I would recommend the Canon old F1, the Nikon FM, or the Pentax KX</p>

<p>Some of the cameras above have automatic exposure but can be set manually (like Canon A1, Minolta X-700 for example). If you want completely manual with a light meter the Pentax K1000 is good, but demand has driven the price up. It takes an easy to obtain MS-76 silver battery for light meter. If you want LED metering, look at the Yashica FX-3 Super 2000 or Ricoh KRII. The Nikon FM is usually a good value. For a bargain consider the Minolta SRT 101 (or other SRTs) or the Canon FTb. Both use a discontinued mercury battery but you can substitute a zinc air hearing aid battery. A little pricier look at the Olympus OM-1.</p>

<p>The Canon A 1 can be used as a manual camera, but I'm not sure if you can easily use the light meter in the manual setting. Other might know better. Many Canon A 1s are known to create an Asthma-like sound, which means they need servicing. Make sure your camera doesn't, before you buy. An alternative might be the Olympus OM-2(n) - reliable, compact, easy to use or the Minolta X-500 or 700. And be aware that the cameras we are talking about are about 25-30 years old. That doesn't mean they won't do their job, but many of these old cameras have rotten and sticky light seals and mirror bumpers that have to be replaced. Replacement is quite easy and not expensive. You get replacement sets for every model and it takes maybe half an hour of work. The quicksilver cell issue has been mentioned. Use the search function to find out more about it and ways to come over the problem.</p>