Giving away CD's ?

<p>The feedback I get is that most almost seem to expect a free CD at the end of a Wedding today. It seems to me like some photogs are happy to have their time paid for, and then almost have no value on the images that they've collected & simply hand them over.</p>

<p>I wonder, is this just a gesture of good will, or do people actually come back for prints/albums after that still? I guess you'd have to make some sort of clear point (perhaps send a sample) of the quality differences in print that you get when going to your photographer...?</p>

<p>In <em>my </em>experience, the photographers who offer a disc at the end of the night are on the low end of the spectrum of talent and price. It seems that it's the preferred business practice of the "I got a nice camera and now I'm a wedding photographer" crowd.<br>

Once you give them the disc, it's nearly impossible to gain any print sales. They are either happy looking at them on the computer or they go to a local lab or drugstore to have prints made.</p>

 

<p>A successful business is one which gives the customer what they want. If you are happy with your fee to cover your time then why not?</p>

<p>Think in reverse. As a client what would you want most? A DVD of images for sure :-)</p>

<p>Digital has brought a new world which requires a different business model.<br>

As long as one reaches their profit goals, why does the income mix matter anyway?<br>

and Steve, a successful business gives the client what they want <strong>at a profit</strong>.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Think in reverse. As a client what would you want most? A DVD of images for sure</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Actually, I would rather have an album with about fifty pictures in it (which is what I have) but most people now just want images on CD or DVD which they can upload to Facebook.<br>

If that's what people want then there is a business opportunity to supply it.</p>

<p>Well I don't have a Facebook account, but if I paid someone to cover an event, I'd absolutely want to have a DVD of high-res images. They last forever and I can email them to friends/family or share them privately through my website. I can also take prints whenever I want to - including 10 years into the future.</p>

<p>@Sam - A lot of couples (even those with budgets for photographers in the 2,000 + range) are demanding Cd's with images now.</p>

<p>The business model has changed over the past 5 years. As prints go out of favor, and the popularity of social networking sites such as Facebook, Twitter and Google + increases, more and more people want digital copies of their wedding photos - or any photos for that matter.</p>

<p>Part of this is that the consumer has gotten smarter and knows that they can go to Target, Costco, etc... and get a decent 8x10 print for $1.00 not the $50 or $75.00 that a "Wedding Photographer" charges them for a print that they have done at WHCC or Mpix... The consumer also knows that they can go to a publisher and get a decent quality coffee table book (if they wish) for far less than they can from one of us. </p>

<p>As photographers - we have to adapt to what the consumer wants. Those that adapt will survive - those who don't - won't. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>Interesting thoughts, thanks all. Just thinking out loud :-).</p>

<blockquote>

<p>They last forever</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Do they? :-) As photographers is part of our job not to put across the importance of archival qualities?</p>

<p>All of my clients receive a DVD of wedding photographs. I also now offer a wedding album on an iPad rather than printed. Works for me.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>All of my clients receive a DVD of wedding photographs. I also now offer a wedding album on an iPad rather than printed. Works for me.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So for free or do you profit from it ? I've offered iPads with full sets on, but no one has been taken one yet.</p>

<p>Prints are fallen out of favor comparing to digital media nowadays. People will rather browse the entire set on a ipad than flipping through hundreds of 4x6s. Wedding albums still have their market but many couples now know they can get decent albums made themselves through MPIX etc. to save money. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Richard,<br /> I added to my packages what my average bottom line profit was a couple years ago from reprints. I don't have to "cross that bridge" discussing how much they are during prospective client meetings. I have a sneaking suspicion if a photographer added up all the costs there isn't much as profit relative to bottom line profit from reprint sales as thought. I found that the time working on the print in PS - paying someone to do the changes or myself, getting print(s) made, either having another client meeting or sending the prints out, invoicing, carrying receivables, collecting payment .... whew ... I can be more productive with my time, taking time off or having more client meetings.</p>

<p>Just how I do things. Hope this helps you.</p>

<p>I guess I might be the odd one. I used to provide digital files to clients. What I found out over time is that the clients just stash the digital media on a table or drawer somewhere. It never gets to its intended goal as an album, photo print, canvas etc. It is quite sad really.<br>

Now I offer end-to-end solution. We discuss with the client for their ultimate goal and build the photography bundle around that. Prints, canvas, album, press books etc. Lots of rave by the client's friends and families when they visit at their home. Is it more work? Yes per the above response. But there is a certain unquantifiable quality to print medium over digital. It is this tangible experience that seems to be missing with viewing the same image on a monitor. YMMV of course.<br>

Having said that, digital files are available for purchase because I do recognize some folks may want to do their own prints etc.</p>

<p>I used to push prints. I stopped bothering because no one wanted them. I then would push albums, and most of my clients didn't want them. I now have packages based on a very simple formula of hours, plus a base set of included services. They can remove one or two of those services for a discount, but otherwise everything is always included. This does not include albums or prints. This simplicity has made it much easier for my clients, and for me as well.<br>

<br /> Your customers are going to know only what they either research on their own, or what you tell them. If you wish to bend a client towards a certain product or process, educate them. If not, build whatever profit you need, into the base price. Then, if they want extras, they can always add them.</p>

This topic has been brought up many times before on the forum. Here is my two cents as a bride in 2009 and as a

wedding photographer. Back in college I took more design classes than your average bear, but nowadays even if you

didn't take classes in photoshop you can still do a fair amount on your own. Going into looking for a photographer my

two qualifications were good pj and high resolution jpgs that I would be allowed to post on Facebook, make a wedding

website with, and correct as I saw fit. I wanted a high quality album as well. Looking back on it, making sure the photographer knew how to do formal family

photos well would have been added in to that list and quicker turnaround for our album. My package didn't

include the high res jpgs, I paid an extra $500 for that with reprint rights. I was glad to have this because I fixed up

things the studio wouldn't do for free like fixing the edge of my train so it wasnt all folded over strange, remove exit

signs, eliminate light fixtures in the garden we took shots in, got rid of clutter in the dressing room like a telephone.

Then they used these images in my final album. Also I didn't want to have to buy my prints within 3 months of my

wedding, or at $20 for a 4x6 when I had already spent $5400 (without including the $500 disc with reprint rights). I

wanted the ability to print them when and where I wanted.

 

Many couples are not that specific when picking out a photographer. Every couple I have met with since 2009 has

asked if they can have a disc with the pictures. Some are savvy enough to ask about reprint rights. I show the

couples the difference between a leather craftsmen album and a kodak gallery photo book. I explain the lack of

archival properties of a photo book. I explain the difference with prints too. I explain why my base rates may be a bit more expensive and suggest they find out how much prints and albums would be with other photographers before they sign with anyone. When I mail out the DVD with the pictures

I send along a 1-pager called I have my images, now what? I go through it proper storage, redundancy of storage

since hard drives fail. Then I talk about how digital storage over time changes, but our good old media reading eyes

should always be compatible for printed media, so be sure to print out your favorites on good quality archival media.

 

I do not budget in any expected returns on prints. Anything I get from that is gravy. I do an unusual practice of

handing around a s gin up sheet for guest emails to receive the link. Each guest gets a coupon for a free 4x6 of their

choice, a long as they at least buy $1.50 from the site. In the end most guests forget to even use the coupon. I

charge $0.99 for a 4x6 for guests and $0.32 for a 4x6 for the bride and groom. Often I end up with the mother's

buying 100+ 4x6s. I make about $50 on that, but think of the great advertising. That mom is showing those shots off

to everyone she knows. I get many a referral that way. The guests love the lower price prints too. Sometimes they

buy the shots of themselves, and other times they buy shots of the couple as a present for them. That in turn

hopefully leads them to suggest us to their friends.

 

Mostly though as a generational thing it seems like younger couples are less likely to want prints. Sometimes their

parents want them. My older couples seem to value albums and prints more. So if you want to still be marketable to

couples under 25 I would suggest you be willing to provide a disc with the photos on it. If they are anything like I was,

it doesn't matter how cheap you are and how good your work is, if you aren't willing to give them that disc, then they

won't even take a second glance at you.

 

Do you have to give it for free? No. You could charge technically,like the studio charged me for mine. But I find it is

just better to build that into the price of my packages. That way the couple feels as if they are getting them for free,

but I am still making money, even if they don't buy a single print from me after. Do I just dump the photos onto the

disc, no. I go through everyone. No batch processing. So I definitely value my work time spent in post and my

images overall. People who provide these high resolution images to their clients aren't sellouts, they are just catering

to an ever-growing demand. Typical supply and demand economics really.

 

I apply the same type of pricing with my albums. $250 for design of 20 pages and 3 editing rounds. Each additional editing round is $50. Additional pages are prorated. Then the fixed leather craftsmen cost of production is applied on top of that. I don't inflate their prices. So usually my clients get albums for about $550-$650 depending on the options they choose. I will probably be increasing the design fee to $300 or $350 soon. But generally my clients like this model. They get that they are paying for my time and design skills, and they like that I don't increase the leather craftsmen costs as the middleman placing the order. That's my model at least. I am sure there are others out there that work even better, but it works well for me.

<p>Technology has changed everything. Standards, Ethics, Business in general. The public still has the philosophy that digitial is cheaper than film. I beg to differ. Digital is more time consuming for anyone who takes pride in their work. Digital has it's place as film has it's. It takes longer time to make your photos have the somewhat quality of film. Most people(brides) dont care, they just want photos. But.......................because it's digital, it's easy to change something in the photo, I say that with sarcasim. In conclusion, this is both sides of the coin.</p>

It's real hard to make a living giving away a CD/DVD. At least in LA where things like homes are so high in price. If it's a side job I suppose it's OK.

If you promote yourself telling the clients you use a pro lab because a pro lab uses the finest chemicals and paper along with adjusting every print should help sell yourself as a pro. Added to this you don't want to give out CD's because the people will print them at K-mart or something and if the chemicals are old the photo's will look bad and if they show them to their friends the people will think you are a stinky photographer. Therefore you wish to have total control of your work.

 

When I turn in a job to my lab, they make a DVD of every adjusted image. Kind of cool actually because the images and printed photo's will look fantastic. They don't charge me for this.

 

I suppose you can put them on an ipod, but again the images won't look really professional. Using an ipod is a pretty cool way, but at this time I don't offer this.

<p>This has been around for a while (as a point of discussion). My take is this: If you get your fees up front for your work, why would you hold the images back. However, if your sale is based on getting print/book sales later, then I would be keeping the images.</p>

<p>I know a local photographer who charges just $995.00, AND HE'S GOOD. But, if you like the images, he's created for you, you have to then purchase the images en mass, or prints/books at a premium. The cost of the CD of images is around $2k or more, and prints (4x6) start at about $15.00 each. I don't do things that way, but he seems to be making that model work well for him.<br>

There is no reason to just hold on to images for the sake of it, so my answer is, it depends on your business model.</p>

<p>I've been debating about this as well. I appreciate everyone's thoughts, especially the insight from Vail.<br>

My question is, if you DO provide a disc with print quality images, how do you size them? Rather, how do you explain that the client may not be able to print her favorite photo as an 8x10 because a lot of the image will be cropped off? I feel like this is another problem with providing a disc and not being able to ensure the quality of the print.</p>

 

Tracie , glad my obscenely lengthy post wast helpful to you. If they are printing the shots up themselves either online or at a photo kiosk it usually shows the 8x10 crop and

what will not be printed. A few rare ones allow it to be fitted with white or black borders. With the disc I always

provide the explanation sheet of what they can do with the disc and it encourages the couple to call me if they have

any questions about printing up their images. Also I try to shoot wide enough that critical details aren't right on the

edge of the frame for just such occasions.

<p>I am wondering what kind of images do you give the clients on the CD or DVD? Are they full edited and of full resolution? Or are they just small size file good for viewing on the computer screen?</p>

<p>I have been giving away the DVD of images, but with a stated waiting period (usually 6 months) so that I have a chance to sell some prints. If the waiting period falls over Christmas, which it often does, this can be especially lucrative. <br />I also include a credit to be used towards prints in every package, so the bride can see the high quality prints I offer. I would be curious to hear a response to this. Does anyone else go the "waiting period" route? If so, what is the response from clients and prospective clients?<br>

M Brod</p>