Getting a Rolleiflex 6006 and selling my Hasselblad 500 cm

Discussion in 'Medium Format' started by mohamed_sherif|1, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. Hi guys,
    I am thinking of selling my Hassy 500 cm and to get a Rolleiflex 6003/6006 instead. Is that wise?
    Both systems have great lenses and WLF and the images are square...
    I do not mind using batteries, although I like fully mechanical bodies --- and really like not having to meter outside the body, that is the main thing! I like shooting slides and that is the thing!
     
  2. Hi Mohamed,
    Did you mean 6002/6006? The 6003 belongs to the later 6008 generation.
    Wise? Yes! Any of the Rolleis, from the SLX on, offer better features and is more user friendly than the 500c/m. Take away the Zeiss lenses, and the 500c/m is a very pretty, but very ordinary box. For heaven's sake, it doesn't even have an instant-return mirror!

    While offering the very same Zeiss lenses and the very same 6x6 SLR paradigm, the Rolleis all have additional 'luxuries' like built-in motor drive, shutter speed increments to 30 seconds, viewfinders that you can change without having to take off the film back, easy-load cartridges, and best of all, unheard-of-by-Hasselblad built-in light metering and AE!
    Being battery-dependent is usually flagged as the main negative for choosing the Rollei system. But that's really not a problem these days. If you buy a used Rollei, replace the tired NiCd cells with new, much higher capacity, no-memory-effect NiMh ones (our Chinese ebay friends to the rescue again) and you're good to go.
     
  3. "[...] really like not having to meter outside the body, that is the main thing!"

    Keep all your lenses, magazines, finders, etc. and get a 203 FE or 205 FCC (forgot about those, Ray? ;-) ).
    (They too take batteries (of course), but ones you can get everywhere.)
     
  4. Remember, your Hasselblad 500 is a 100% mechanical camera. Repairs will not be a problem for years to come. The Rollei 6000 series is 100% electronic. I seriously doubt if it is possible to have these repaired if the electronics failed right now. The Rollei's work with an expensive big dedicated rechargeble battery. Saying big, do you realise that these Rollei's are big camera's? Bigger than your Hasselblad. Bigger magazines, bigger batteries (of course since the Hasselblad does not use a battery, bigger focussing hood. If you want to buy used, there is an abundance of used Hasselblad gear, often at nice prices. Used Rollei 6000 gear is rarer and often more expensive that similar Hasselblad products.
    My advise is to buy a good meter with a build in spotmeter like the Sekonic meters and keep your Hasselblad.
    All the best, Frank
    www.frankbunnik.zenfolio.com
     
  5. How about keeping the lenses and just buy a ELX body like the 553?
    Add a cheap metering prism and sounds like you have everything you want + local service distribution network with large used market...
     
  6. The Rollei can be repaired if necessary but with many used and cheap bodies on the market, it might be easier just to replace a dead body. Btw, I've had a Hasselblad V and a Rollei 6008. I liked both but if I had to choose, the Rollei would definitely win.
    Try to get a 6008i, if you don't plan on using AF lenses, or 6008AF if you do.
     
  7. The 6003 is my favorite of the series (or the expensive 6008AF). The 6003 is smaller and except for not having interchangable backs (you can update the film gate and change backs) it does everything the 6008 does in a smaller package.
     
  8. Keep both. Why limit yourself? No matter what you do otherwise you'll regret not having the other.
    Even I, with my penchant for "cheap old crap," can appreciate these cameras. :)
    It's only money after all.
     
  9. I owned a Hasselblad 500 CM years ago and now own a Rollei 6006. Both are superb cameras. I find the Rollei to be a more user-friendly camera and really like the built-in motor drive and automation. If you photograph a lot of action, or even portraits, the Rollei is a better choice. But, its achilles heal is that it is a 100% electronic camera. If your batteries go, your camera goes with it. Not so with the Hasselblad 500 CM. Being 100% mechanical, no need to worry about losing power at the most inopportune moment. I also wonder about parts for the 6006. It is an older camera and, being so heavily based on electronics, if some circuit board goes, you may have a hard time getting the camera repaired. Repairs probably won't be an issue with the Hasselblad (all mechanical and there are so many old bodies still around).
    But, I like the 6006 and the pictures it takes. It's a well thought-out and well engineered camera.
     
  10. Hi, Mohamed, i am a Rollei user but my answer to you is 'no'. The 6006 system is not a mature system. they use older type of batteries which uses different fuses, and working specimens are now difficult to find (NiCad batteries do not last). they cannot take PQ or PQS lenses. (they are not forwardly compatible). the auto-exposure system is rudimentary (this may not be a problem if you always use manual metering and manual control)
    but if you are a user of mechanical cameras then the most annoying issue is the shutter delay. this limits severely its use for candid photography.
    i would recommend that you get a 6008 if you want to join the Rollei party. if you have a 6006, then keep the hood and use it on your 6008. the eyelevel viewing device is a delight :)
    Cheers,
    Tak
     
  11. yes, i mean i would not recommend 6006 but 6003 is different from 6006 as already mentioned above. Tak
     
  12. If you want to compare weights, you would have to find a Hassy with instant return mirror, power winder, built-in ttl metering of flash... and see how much that weighs.
    An electronically governed shutter is extremely accurate and stable, and the metering is extremely accurate, too, though for the 6006 it is stopped-down metering.
    A 6006 body may be quite a bargain, but it is getting a bit old; 6008i might be available at good prices, and that has some additional features.
    It is possible to repopulate the NiCad Rollei battery pack with NiMH cells, which makes it hold more of a charge, for longer.
     
  13. I would love to have a Rollei 6k, but I wouldn't sell my Hasselblad. The only reason I haven't is money. They are not all that inexpensive by the time you buy lenses, in part because they are somewhat rare in the US. The point about the system not being mature, is an apt description.
     
  14. Keep all your lenses, magazines, finders, etc. and get a 203 FE or 205 FCC (forgot about those, Ray? ;-) ).​
    Not at all. But did you forget that built in metering is not present in ANY V-series body, including the 200 series, Q.G.? ;-) And that you have to sacrifice WLF viewing in order to get V-series metering? Mohamed wants to retain WLF viewing - "Both systems have great lenses and WLF and the images are square..." and still have TTL metering - "really like not having to meter outside the body". With these considerations, his only 6x6 SLR choice is a Rollei.
    Saying big, do you realise that these Rollei's are big camera's? Bigger than your Hasselblad. Bigger magazines, bigger batteries (of course since the Hasselblad does not use a battery, bigger focussing hood.​
    Frank is right, on a 500c/m to Rollei comparison - but let's compare apples with apples. To dress up a Hasselblad to the same (as near as possible) spec as a Rollei, you need to start with a 200 series body, replace that small focusing hood with a bulky metering/AE prism, add a bulky external winder, and the form factor becomes less streamlined as well. It would be more costly, and just as battery dependent.
    I'm not trying to start a war here, but I often find that the Rolleis don't get a fair hearing in questions like this.
     
  15. I would stay with Hasselblad.Mechanical, pure and simple.No meter.get one! One you hold and measure with.Medium format is more deliberate and slow.The Rolleis are electronic. No circuit, no camera. Rollei went belly up! Hesitate to buy a special battery electronic camera made in Germany.Electronics not a great success there..
    The Leica M-9 does disprove my statement till you really compare the results of a low end Nikon/Canon DSLR. I am a confirmed Leica user but would never invest in a M-8,M-9. The price horrendous and the IQ and electronics, below par. Leica may also not have access to sensor,with Kodak selling off stuff like at a rummage sale.
    Years ago i sold/traded my Pentax 6x7 outfit.. The battery has to be full power..I kept the Rolleiflex TLR Automat with 75mm Tessar lens. The Pentax battery can be assembled from 4 xD76 cells.The Rollei 6000 series are special. Look what happened to Hasselblad EL series..
    There are lots of Hasselblads out there for use. The other one is rare esp. here in North America.
    Maybe get a DSLR with everything built in, including coffee maker!
     
  16. Rollei is now being made and serviced by DHW. No need to spread rumours there, or about German electronics. My Sinar back is made in Germany by Jenoptik and it was 100% reliable and still performs well after 4 years or so. Leica's pricing is irrelevant to this thread, and Kodak's sensor division is now owned by a stable company, not one on the brink of bankruptcy. That's a good thing!
     
  17. ......they cannot take PQ or PQS lenses. (they are not forwardly compatible)......​
    Partially true. The 6006 camera can take PQ lenses, but not PQS lenses. I regularly use a 80mm and 50mm PQ lenses on my 6006.
     
  18. The 203 and 205 models do have built in metering. No need to buy a metering prism for those cameras although with the prism, the metering result can be seen better than with the folding hood.
    With regards, to Rollei electronics. I once bought a brand new Rollei 6003. It stopped working within one hour. Had to sent it back to Germany, camera was gone for 3-4 weeks. Shortly after that, the shutter in the 150mm lens I had stopped working. After that, I went to Hasselblad. Never had 1 problem with that brand and all was bought used. Every word of this is true.
     
  19. Ray,

    It has been pointed out already, but re your:

    "Not at all. But did you forget that built in metering is not present in ANY V-series body, including the 200 series, Q.G.? "

    I did not forget that, because it's not something to forget.
    And that, Ray, simply because it is not true. 202, 203, 205; all have built-in metering.

    You, as it turns out, did not forget either. You just didn't know.
    Shows how well informed the advice some people give is. ;-)
     
  20. Oops, my bad - sorry Frank, Q.G., Mohamed, and...Victor H himself! My recollection of the 200-series metering got hopelessly garbled! Should've checked Google before posting...!
     
  21. My recollection of the 200-series .... Should've checked Google before posting...!​
    ( .... ever seen a real Hasselblad? .. or only looked at pictures. )
     
  22. The Rollei 6000 battery problem is really only a psychological one.

    New OEM batteries are still available for retail price.

    And new replacement batteries are available for $40 from China pre-welded. Needing only 2 solder connections for
    replacement. I have done it, it's not hard. These Chinese NiMH replacements hold 3 times the charge of OEM, and
    even those will do 300 shots on a charge, I have no conceivable need to take 30 rolls worth if photos at one time.

    The Rollei IS twice the size and weight of a Hasselblad, but its form factor completely makes that forgivable. The hand
    grip ergonomics is pretty comfortable for me. I don't rightly know what to hold onto with the Hasselblad, and feels
    awkward to me, like I have the puzzle box from Hellraiser in my hands.

    The battery "problem" was an objection for me before I bought it, but I found it's not real for
    me now.

    What really is real is the cost of the lenses compared to similar Hasselblad lenses. You're going to find some sticker shock there, with the PQ and PQS lenses. The similarly equiped Rollei kit is going to be considerably more than a 501 system, after the second or third lens is factored in. I need to research the Variogons more, that may make things reasonable, dunno. Do Hasselblads even have zooms available for them?

    Somebody likes the Rollei, when I bought mine there were a bunch on eBay. There is only one 6008 Pro and one new 6008 AF on sale now(well when I looked a couple days ago). Not including the prop 6008 and transparent 6003 which have been on sale for
    months.

    If you want a less expensive system with a bunch of lenses, I would stick to Hasselblad. I don't know what is meant by immature design for the Rollei, it seems pretty well designed to me considering everything that it encompasses. 1/1000 shutter speeds with flash synch, accurate ttl metering, forgiving backs and inserts, no lens jams, great form factor, zoom lens availability, Zeiss and Schneider lenses, fast shooting with vertical transport, 645 ability, etc.

    In the end, both systems have been almost completely depreciated. If you buy one or the other you can always sell it later for about what you pay for it now. Use it, sell it if you don't like it, buy the other later. Even if you do lose a little bit, consider it a very affordable rental charge.
     
  23. Well I did exactly that, sold my 500cm and bought a 6006 with 40, 80and 150mm lenses, bought on Ebay for a total of $1100, added a spare battery and remote release, could not be happier. As has been said if I had not liked the Rollei I could pretty well sell it for what I paid for it and go back to the 500cm. But that is not going to happen, I love that Rollei, find it much easier to handle despite the weight, love the instant return mirror and find the metering very accurate, and much prefer the laminar blind on the back, I never knew where to put the dark slide on the Blad (I could only afford old type backs without the slot for the darkslide). If it ever goes wrong I'll just get another body, they're cheap enough. In fact the Rollei has re-invigorated my photography, it's that good.
     
  24. Yes, the rollei has AE built in. I've had both and would recommend the rollei. I have some lenses, prism, etc. for sale as well if interested. Send me an e-mail.
     
  25. all things mentioned about Rollei here is true. i would not recommend 6006 but by all means, if you want to come to a comprehensive electronic 6x6 system, get a 6008. have a good research on the difference btw 6006 and 6008 before you decide. Tak
     
  26. "I need to research the Variogons more, that may make things reasonable, dunno. Do Hasselblads even have zooms available for them?"

    Yes. That Variogon was first seen on Hasselblads. ;-)
    Extremely unusefull lenses, though. Much, much too big to be used on anything but a sturdy tripod.

    There's also a more compact zoom that can be used on focal plane shutter Hasselblads only.
     
  27. ( .... ever seen a real Hasselblad? .. or only looked at pictures. )​
    Thanks Kevin - I deserved that (really) as I've not seen a 203 or 205 in the flesh and foolishly extrapolated from the 2000FC series & 201F (I have seen the latter). Won't happen again.
    Still, 1 glaring factual error in 8 years on Photo.net is not a bad record!
    I stand by what I said about the Rolleis, as I know this system very well (between owning and using one, and having done a LOT of research on the full range - yes, the sort of research I should have done before talking about the other Hasselblad 200s!).
    The point about equivalent cost is still valid. My Rollei kit (with built-in metering/AE & motor etc., electric remote release/Mirror-Up cable, 80/2.8 HFT Planar, Bay VI to 67mm filter adapter, battery charger G) was under €200 on ebay, and like Richard did above, I upgraded the battery to NiMh for another €40. I don't think you'd find a similar Hasselblad kit for that sort of money. Sure, the PQ/PQS lenses are expensive, but so are the F/FE lenses, which I would regard as their counterparts, especially since those are the lines where you find the really fast lenses. The HFT lenses are better comparators to the CT*/CF lenses, and as far as I can tell, their prices are very similar.
     
  28. Ray,

    I don't really know if you can compare the HFT to the Hasselblad lenses. When the HFT is on a 6008i, you lose a
    good portion of meter functionality on the Rollei(compared to the PQ/S lens).

    Does using older Hasselblad lenses hobble the camera in the same sense?

    I don't think I want to buy another non PQ/S lens because of that. EL lenses appear to come in both HFT and PQ
    models.

    Regarding your kit price, I have not seen any deals like that. You got a really good deal.
     
  29. Thanks Q.G.
     
  30. anyway, if anybody is interested, I am selling my 6006 and a nice collection for lenses (40, 80, 150 and 250 mm), because I don't have the time to use it. Contact me off line for inquires. It's really a great camera. You have the felling of shooting medium format like you shoot with a 35 mm automatic camera.
    Laurent
     
  31. to all 6006 lovers, i must say it is still a great camera. it is when you compare it to much pricier 6008 that you find it lacking some features. so like any decision, it is a summation of all factors: features you want, your budget, how you plan to use it etc. during the few years i was using my 6006 it was a delight and a major upgrade from a former mechanical camera i had. Tak
     
  32. Yes, I agree with the others on the move to 6008integral or pro as they are inexpensive. I know of several people including myself who have made the switch to the newer Hy6 body and have a few 6000 series bodies now just taking up space.
     
  33. Hi All,
    Thank you very very much for all your responses... I am late responding due to travelling on a business trip. In fact I am in Tampa at the moment!
    The Hassy 2xx series is a good solution for me for sure but it is very expensive! The TLR Rollei FX or GX have built-in light meters but, again, expensive! The Rollei 6xxx is affordable in comparison. I decided that may be I should give the Rollei 6xxx a try... I live in Holland so Germany is close in case I ever need a repair.
    I see lots of very useful comments and feedback... I'd love to keep the Hasselblad 500 CM and buy say a Rollei 6008i... but my wife would give me a hard time to add yet another camera! I have really quite an arsenal :)
    I have an external light meter, and I think I'd like to get a spot meter also... but if you shoot a parade say, and slides, people are not going to wait for you to meter them! I think.
     
  34. Simply invest in a metered prism such as the PME45. The fact that a Hasselblad is purely mechanical is an absolute must in the field. Also, the CW Winder adds the convenience of motorized advance, but also provides a great grip. The winder can easily be removed for using the manual winder too.
     
  35. I had a 6008 but sold it and switched to a Hasselblad 503cw. I realized I much prefer a fully mechanical camera to all the bells and whistles of the Rollei. I use it with the PME45 and it all works perfectly. But I do wish it was easier to focus.
     
  36. I'm thinking of getting a Rolleiflex 6002/6006, despite all the warnings here about the electronics and battery. But one thing I haven't been able to find out, despite a lot of googling, is how much noise it makes. Not only the mirror slap, but the winder. Can anyone help? Also, someone mentioned a shutter lag -- is that significant? Thanks.
     
  37. Carl, why not the 6008? Shutter lag is not an issue on that body. I can't comment about the 6006. I don't remember any significant winder noise on my 6008 but it's been a year now since I changed to the Hy6.
     
  38. Graham, 6002/6006 generally cheaper, not interested in autofocus, 6002 is lighter as well.
     
  39. "[...] not interested in autofocus [...]"

    The 6008 AF (!) is relatively rare. The vast majority of 6008 Rolleiflexes do not support AF.
    So not being interested in AF is no reason to discount the 6008. ;-)
     
  40. Q.G., Well, you learn something every day. Don't know where I picked up that tidbit of mis-information. Thanks for setting me straight!
     

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