F3 Flash for wedding: TTL or not?

Hi everyone

 

I've a few questions and I hope you can enlighten me.

 

A good friend of mine has a wedding coming up in June. He wants to

save some $$ and has asked me to be the photographer on that day

(probably the only photographer). I currently have a FE, 24/2.8 AFD,

50/1.4 AIS and a 105/2 AF, plus a F3HP, which was acquired not too

long ago. I also have a Metz auto flash with a guide no. of 36 that I

don't use very often.

 

Now here are my questions: since I'm not experienced with flash

photography, I'm thinking whether to acquire a TTL flash to be used

with my F3. Knowing that there're now things like D-TTL and i-TTL, I'm

wondering if plain TTL would measure up effectively, i.e. would I be

able to get accurate exposure with the F3's TTL flash? or is

D-TTL/i-TTL much better?

 

I understand that the AS-17 adapter would be the way to go, but that

together with a TTL-flash would not be cheap. Should I invest in this

combo, or just get a used SB-16 (don't know a or b)?

 

I'm hoping I won't be slowed down by rewinding and changing films on

the day of the wedding. With the F3, do I have to take the flash off

in order to rewind films? Would you recommend adding a MD-4 to speed

things up?

 

If the best way to go is with the AS-17, new flash and a MD-4, would

it make more sense just to get a used F80 + flash? since the cost

could be about same.

 

I actually prefer to approach the wedding documentary-style, but it

seems inevitable that I'll have to take lots of "standard" photos too

and flash is crucial for that, I presume. I hope you can let me know

if there's something missed. Cheers

I have shot a few low buck weddings for my son's friends in need. I

used my N70 in manual exposure mode, a Vivitar 285HV Auto Flash

mounted on a Stroboframe Pro T flash bracket, the 35mm end of a 18-35

zoom, an AFD 60 Micro, and a 105 2.5 AIS.

 

I don't know what Metz flash you have but a guide number of 36 sounds

low to me, unless that is meters and not feet. You need to get the

flash off the camera, the Stroboframe Pro T gets it high enough for

group shots. I used 35mm for group shots and that is the widest angle

the Vivitar 285HV will cover on its own. Check and see what your Metz

will cover.

 

I would want to use the FE for the slightly faster flash sync but it

would be harder to hold than the F3 with a flash bracket and flash

attached.

 

I wouldn't get the F80 and TTL flash unless you need/want an AF

camera for other things too. I would get the few things you really

need; flash bracket, anti-twist plates & cord. Maybe a 35mm lens if

you always wanted one. With a 35, 50/60, and an 85/105 you can get

99% of the shots they will want.

First thing: if you plan to use your F3 just a little longer -facing the digital storm-, getting an AS17 is nice/wise (while it is still available).

 

Second: my experiences with F3 TTL-flash with the kind of 'social photography' like weddings, are not good. I have tried it in the past with a Metz-flash + sca-adapter. The flash tends to overexpose often, leaving the camera to whine about 'not enough light' (red dot flashing) and the flash taking a long recharge... (while the action goes on!). That is a F3-thing, not to do with the flash - I get the same thing with the AS17.

 

For the kind of work you intend to use it now, my advice would be indeed: get a newer camera with compatible flash.

 

Notwithstanding my first point: get a AS17 as well. And don't underestimate the use of a F3 during a wedding - preferably with a MD4 added. But with a different approach: Use a fixed-aperture lens at 2.8-5.6. Put ISO 800 printfilm in your camera (like Fuji press). Take a manual exposure-reading and underexpose just slightly (probably resulting in shuttertimes between 1/30 and 1/8). Use fill-in flash to freeze a bit of the movement, to add more neutral colors, and to lighten up the shadows. Use either manual flash (!!!!!) at maybe 1/16 max.output. Or use the AS17 (alas - the ISOsettings on that thing only go to 400..). You'll work it out. A bit of home-practicing is advisable!

 

good luck

The type of TTL flash you get with Nikon is determined by the combination of the body and flash. The F3 only supports standard TTL flash and regardless of which flash you use that is all you will get. I wouldn't even bother with TTL. I'd use a flash bracket and fire the flash using a sync cord going from the camera body to the flash. This avoids the whole issue of getting to the rewind knob to either rewind the film or open the back. I would not spend a great deal of meoney on a one time event unless you plan on shooting more weddings in the future. In which case you would probably want to rethink your gear anyway.

<<<He wants to save some $$ and has asked me to be the photographer on that day >>

 

Try renting a F100 and SB-28 and 28-105mm zoom. Total cost is like $50. Either that ot take your chances with the older stuff. And besides, let the groom pay the rental. It the least he can do since you working for free. Take the F3 as back up or outdoor shots. ALWAYS take 2 cameras and 2 flashes for wedding. And don't go cheap with the film either. 10-15 rolls should cover you.

I agree with Joe. I've shot many weddings with just an FE and Vivitar 285. It's a great combination. It'll work very well with the F3. The F3 is a great camera. Be sure to put the flash on a bracket, (I really like my Stroboframe "camera-flip" model), this will drop the shadows down and behind your subjects. I also diffuse my flash a bit for softer shadows. If indoors, in a dimly lighted room, church, etc. drag the shutter @ 1/60th. I use my 28-90 zoom for about 95% of the shooting. I will sometimes use the 105 f/2.5 for formal portraits. I also have a 24mm & 70-210, in the event that they are needed. The auto fstop settings on my Vivitar 285 and Nikon SB-24, are quite accurate.

 

Russ<div></div>

Regarding adding a motor drive to either camera, I think the limiting factor will be flash recycle time, not film winding.

<cite>

Regarding adding a motor drive to either camera, I think the limiting factor will be flash recycle time, not film winding.</cite>

<p>

If the flash is near full power, that's true, but if it's at

a small fraction of the power, it's likely to be able to keep up

with a MD at least for a short burst.

<p>

But there are other benefits to a motor drive besides doing

fast bursts. I almost always leave my MD-4 on "S" instead of "C",

rarely taking more than one frame in two or three seconds,

and yet I use the MD-4 in almost every situation where I can stand

to carry the weight. I find that what's much more important

than the ability to do a burst of 5fps is the motor drive's

ability to keep the camera always ready with my eye at the

finder. I can't count the number of times I've composed

a shot on a non-motorized camera, pushed the button, and realized

that the reason nothing is happening is because I forgot to wind

the film. Usually, that's not a problem, I just wind and take the

picture, but it can mean a shot lost forever in a fast-moving

candid situation. I never make that mistake when I use a

motor. On a non-motorized camera, even if I always remember

to wind, the act of winding forces me to take the camera

away from my eye for awhile, disrupting the flow of things.

Rather than a flash adapter or dedicated flash for the F3 I'd opt for a reliable "ordinary" flash like the Vivitar 285 or Sunpak 383 and a good flashmeter.

 

I'd also use fairly slow film with the F3 due to its rather slow sync speed. 100-160 ISO film is better suited to its 1/80 and slower sync speed, which helps balancing flash against ambient lighting. A flashmeter can help here to avoid the risk of the flash sensor being fooled by the bride's white gown or groom's black tux.

Thanks everyone for your answers. Your advice and experience are really helpful. Most of you suggests using a flash bracket and an auto flash. I actually didn't think of the flash bracket and now I think I should probably get one. My biggest concern was that an auto flash would not be as accurate as the TTL ones. But since you all say an auto flash will do, I think I'll go for it. (also because the AS-17 isn't cheap)

 

My only flash now is a Metz 36 SC-2. It says it has a guide number of 30 at ISO100/50mm. I've checked out the Vivitar 285 and it says guide number of 120 at ISO100/50mm. I'm not sure if the Metz' is in feet though.

 

Also if I mount the flash off-camera on a bracket, I just need a PC sync cord cable to connect it to the camera, am I correct?

BTW, if I do go for the Vivitar, do I want the 285 or the 285HV? Thanks.

In the ancient times I used my f3hp and F2 on a simple stroboframe camera flip with a vivitar 285hv and got pretty good results in auto mode. As I recall, it has 4 auto ranges. If I was shooting 400 iso and was in the f8 range I would make small aperture adjustments depending on my subject and the background. I would also drag my shutter depending on ambient light.

I got good results on my candids this way, I used Medium format for most of the formals also with a 285 or off camera light depending on the circumstances.

My advise would be keep it simple, Get a stroboframe camera flip for $60 and a couple 285 vivitars. They should also work with your FE, always have back-ups.

I do wonder if the as-17 adapter would work hooked the sc-17 cord to get the flash up on a bracket. If someone has tried that I would be interested in hearing about it. If you decide to go ttl that might be your best bet.

However you decide to go, Take your set up to the church and test.

Good luck

 

Jeff

Jon,

The flash is designed to use as a hot shoe unit. There is also a sync cord supplied if the flash is not on a hot shoe.It is pc on one end and a strange little connector on the other end that plugs in at the base of the flash.

 

As i recall the cord that is supplied with the 285hv is probably to short to use if you put your camera on a bracket. I believe vivitar offers a longer coiled version which is perfect for use with a bracket

 

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. I recall my Metz comes with such a cable, but as you said, it is quite short. And I just check that my Metz' GN is 30/meter. that work out to about 98 feet compare to the Vivitar's 120. I suppose that isn't too much of a difference, right?

Jon

I am not familier with Metz products. I have always used Nikon Vivitar and Sunpack. Hopefully you should be able to get a longer cord assuming it has a special end on it. If it has a common end try a paramount cord I have some of them that are very old and keep working. Go to bhphoto.com and do a search, they seem to have almost everything there.

 

The difference in guide numbers you speak of should be a little less than 1 stop difference. not a big deal depending on the size of your groups and the light in the church.

 

Jeff