Epson 3880 and Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk problems

<p>I attempted to print on Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk with my Epson 3880 with horrid results. The colors in the print were not just slightly off, they were totally out of whack, missing most of the reds and yellows.</p>

<p>I have a hardware calibrated Eizo monitor, have had photos printed at labs match what I see on my monitor, do print design work all the time -- so the problem is not on monitor end.</p>

<p>The photo is in Adobe RGB (1998), 16 bit. Photoshop CS6.</p>

<p>This is my first real effort to print photos on the 3880. I must be doing something wrong with the settings in Photoshop. I believe I followed the instructions in the Read Me that Ilford supplied with the ICC profile. The instructions were written for earlier version of Photoshop, so they didn't exactly match what I was seeing on screen. One thing they said to do which I didn't do was "select ICM" in the printer setup box (I didn't see anything like that).</p>

<p>If anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong, I'd appreciate it. Below are the settings I used:</p>

<p>In Photoshop CS6 Print Settings window —<br>

<strong>Print Settings in Printer Setup box:</strong><br>

Color Matching: Color Sync and EPSON Color Controls are greyed out<br>

Printer Settings:<br>

-- Advanced Color Settings: “Epson Driver Color Management is Off”<br>

-- Basic:<br>

Media Type: Premium Photo Paper Semi-gloss (selected per Ilford Read Me for Galerie Gold Fibre Silk)<br>

Print Mode: AccuPhoto HD2<br>

Color Mode: Off (No Color Management)<br>

Output Resolution: SuperPhoto - 1440 dpi<br>

High Speed, Flip Horizontal, Finest Detail unchecked</p>

<p><strong>Color management box:</strong><br>

Document Profile: Adobe RGB (1998)<br>

Printer Profile: IGGFS13_EPP3880_PSPPn<br>

Send 16-bit Data is checked<br>

Normal Printing<br>

Rendering Intent: Relative Colorimetric<br>

Black Point Compensation is checked (unchecking it didn’t help with color)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I'm assuming that you did a print head check. I'd try doing another print using the profile for Epson's fiber paper to check if it's a profile problem. When I was printing this paper on a 3800 I used to have problems with head strikes even with the platten gap set to the widest setting</p>

<p>>>> Color Matching: Color Sync and EPSON Color Controls are greyed out</p>

<p>Are you saying *BOTH* are greyed out? Colorsync should have been active/selected.</p>

<p>You probably want to uncheck the 'Send 16 bit data' selection. </p>

<p>Thanks, Douglas and Howard, for your replies.</p>

<p>Douglas: The printer cleaned the print heads when I turned it on (then I later turned printer off and on again and heads cleaned again). But I will use the utility for checking print heads. I now see in the manual that color issues can be due to expired inks. Bought this printer a few years ago, will have to check dates on ink. Will be a drag if I have to buy all new ink. But I kind of doubt if this is the problem. Platen setting: I'll adjust (was at default before).</p>

<p>Howard: ColorSync was selected (not by me) but greyed out. I don't check "Send 16 bit data" even if images are 16 bit?</p>

<p>After I posted here, I poked around the web and found some people unhappy with the Ilford profile for this paper and the 3800/3880. Being a novice, I just assumed the paper manufacturer's profile would be good. I will try the Epson fiber profile, as you suggested Douglas.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Epson's own profiles generally work very well on the 3880 (I love that printer!). I generally let the printer driver mange the colors for me. Simple. Works. Great results.</p>

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>Are you saying *BOTH* are greyed out? Colorsync should have been active/selected.</p>

</blockquote>

 

That is exactly what you should see in a few smarter applications like Photoshop, Lightroom etc. You will not see this auto graying out in all app's however and you'd have to set them correctly as Photoshop is doing for you.

 

Even if the Epson ran a check, you should always do a manual nozzle check (the quick one where it spits out those squiggly lines for each ink). There should be NO gaps anywhere on those lines! The 16-bit check box has no effect here (you'd be hard pressed with a good loupe to see any difference with or without the check box on).

 

Either the profile sucks, the heads are clogged or there's another setting that isn't correct in the print driver (media setting?).

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>Yet another double post from the fine forum delete. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>I stand corrected on this. I think I was looking at printing out the Colormunki targets where they are not greyed, not from PS (which has never given me problems and I use a 3800 and same paper, well, Canson)</p>

<p>ColorMunki software <em>should</em> look the same too but maybe they haven't updated it in awhile. The newer, higher end i1Profiler package <strong>does</strong> behave like Photoshop. The Adobe Color Print Utility used to print targets without color management also behaves this way. Any product using the private, (undocumented) Apple SPI called kPMApplicationColorMatching can produce this behavior which is correct for printing with ICC profiles or targets. </p>

<p>Update:</p>

<p>I checked print heads. No broken lines in printout.</p>

<p>I downloaded the Epson profile for Exhibition Fiber, installed, used settings in the ReadMe for the profile, printed on the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. Same result as before. Found a couple sheets of Exhibition Fiber in sample pack, printed on one. Basically same result as on the Ilford paper.</p>

<p>Settings that I changed from what I had before (per Epson ReadMe): used Superphoto 2880 instead of 1440, checked "high speed," media type to Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster.</p>

<p>I'm attaching a jpeg of my file and a scan of a print (on Epson paper; looks very similar on the Ilford paper). The colors not exactly right in the scan, but you can get the general idea. You see how the reds and yellows are lacking. I wonder if there's something wrong with those ink cartridges. When I printed the test for the nozzle check, the yellow looked very light.</p>

<p>Checked expiration date on the ink: August 2012. Read a lot of posts on net where people say they have used ink up to 2 years after expiration date without problems.</p>

<p>I have not used this printer in many months. Should have mentioned that earlier. I wonder if the ink has settled. Have seen mention of tilting the printer back and forth to mix the inks. Do you think I should do that? I will need to get someone to help, too heavy for me. Read that taking cartridge out and putting back in can cause air in line (?).</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your help.</p>

<div></div>

<p>And here is scan of print. (Her skin looks especially red in original file when it is next to the print which is lacking red, doesn't look so odd when standing alone. She was actually sunburnt that day.)</p><div></div>

<p>Use a Color Reference image to evaluate the print:</p>

<p><a href="http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg">Printer Test File</a></p>

<p>How are the skin tones and neutrals in that?</p>

<p>Hi Andrew.</p>

<p>I printed your Printer Test File with same settings I had used for my image, on the Ilford paper, and it turned out great. So I printed another of my photos (jpeg version of file shown here; this is not scan of print), and it also turned out well, except for half a dozen spots of magenta ink in various parts of image.</p>

<p>I wonder what could be going on with my other image? Both images in Adobe RGB (1998), both viewed on same monitor.</p>

<p>Do I need to change the paper thickness setting to avoid the splashes of ink?</p>

<p>Thanks so much for taking the time to help.</p><div></div>

<p>Kat, I've been using this printer recently, so let me throw out <em>my</em> problems, in hopes that they help you to fix <em>your</em> problems.</p>

<p>For starters, make sure that the printer OR Photoshop is managing your colour. If coloursync and Epson Colour Control are <em>both</em> greyed out, then that means that Photoshop is currently set to handle colour management. That means that all the printer colour settings you're picking aren't being applied, and the printer is printing at its default settings. If the Ilford paper runs a little green, that would completely explain your problem.</p>

<p>To check that in CS4 or newer, open up the print dialog. On the screen that shows your image/soft proof on the left, there should be a dialog box for print/Photoshop management. Either works fine, but make sure you have the right one selected, because it's an either/or thing. Personally, I've found that colour prints using non-Epson papers usually come out better if you let Photoshop do the colour management, but your mileage may vary.</p>

<p>I have no idea how to check that setting in older versions of PS, so hopefully you're at least at CS4 :)<br>

<br />Either way, remember to look at that box again right before you print. If you change a printer colour setting, it might snap the printer back into 'printer manages colour.'</p>

<p>Here are some other ways to check: if your printer colour settings are greyed out, then Photoshop is managing colours. If you have an option to select an ICC profile, then Photoshop is managing colour. If your soft-proofing boxes are greyed out, then the printer is managing colour. </p>

<p>As far as your ink sploches (as possibly even the colour itself), try cutting up a piece of paper into smaller sizes, and printing with different paper handling types selected. I like to use Canson Platine, which is a semigloss/lustre finish. However, it actually prints better if I tell the printer that it's a glossy paper. It shouldn't, because it isn't, but it does. This is because all printers are secretly operated by magical demons that want to confound and annoy their users.</p>

<p>That said, it doesn't look like you have any sort of an ink blockage. Since you're missing an equal amount of magenta throughout the entire image (or roughly equal - I messed around with your scan a little), that tells me that it's probably just a print setting. If it were the heads themselves, you'd either see some sections that had better colour, or you'd see a greater difference in how much magenta was lost between your shadows and highlights.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Hi Zack. Thanks for your detailed reply! You are right, it's crucial that I specify that Photoshop manage the colors. I'm in CS6, and I believe I have chosen all the right settings in that regard.</p>

<p>Glad you don't think it's an ink blockage issue.</p>

<p>What is confounding me now is that one image out of three printed so far turned out perfectly fine (plus the test image from Andrew). Don't understand why some prints will match what I see on screen and others won't -- with exactly the same print settings, paper, and color space. One image I printed a little while ago turned out partially posterized.</p>

<p>I think you are right that all printers are secretly operated by magical demons that want to confound and annoy us.</p>

<p><em>"I have not used this printer in many months. Should have mentioned that earlier. I wonder if the ink has settled. Have seen mention of tilting the printer back and forth to mix the inks. Do you think I should do that?"</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

No, I don't think you should be tilting the printer back and forth but from my own experience with a 3800 printer (basically the same even down to most of the ink cartridges) removing the cartridges and giving them a mild shaking does no harm. If your printer has been sitting many months as you say I would certainly give the cartridges a shake before use.</p>

<p>The fact that you are now getting good and bad and partially posterized results could be an issue of poor pigment distribution in the cartridge, shaking as per recommendation before initial installation of the cartridge could help this. Just remove them one at a time, shake, replace and do the next one. Then do a nozzle check again to make sure all is well.</p>

On you question of thickness setting...

 

GFS is 315 microns thick. Default setting on Epson's I have used are '3'. This should be changed to '4' (400 microns).

 

John

On you question of thickness setting...

 

GFS is 315 microns thick. Default setting on Epson's I have used are '3'. This should be changed to '4' (400 microns).

 

John

<p>Mac: Thanks for your advice. I think shaking the ink cartridges is the next thing to try. It doesn't seem to be a software issue at this point. </p>

<p>John: Thank you for pointing out that I should refer to the paper's thickness as specified on the box when setting thickness in Photoshop print window. Should've been obvious, but it didn't occur to me!</p>

<p>Also, you could try using the Canson Baryta Photographique profile from the Canson website. These papers are very similar. The Canson profile works very nice on my 3880.<br>

<br />Have you softproofed the problem photo in PS? What does the softproof look like?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I printed your Printer Test File with same settings I had used for my image, on the Ilford paper, and it turned out great. So I printed another of my photos (jpeg version of file shown here; this is not scan of print), and it also turned out well, except for half a dozen spots of magenta ink in various parts of image.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sounds like it's in <strong>those</strong> image, are you soft proofing? </p>

<p>Hi Russell and Andrew.</p>

<p>All images soft proof just fine with the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and the Epson Exhibition Fiber profiles. I often have images printed at Labs, with no issues, so I know my monitor and image files are good. Now that we've discussed the printer settings in Photoshop, I also believe we've eliminated that as the problem. I'm thinking the ink cartridges aren't working properly due to many months of sitting there unused. I will shake each one tomorrow and see if that helps. Haven't had time to work on this today. </p>

<p>Any advice about the shaking? Just gently roll the horizontally-held cartridge from side to side as illustrated in the manual? Or shake more vigorously? Don't want to cause a new problem, and they are so expensive to replace.....</p>

<p>Thanks for your input.</p>

<p>The fact that you printed the test image and another one of your images successfully makes me doubt it is an ink cartridge problem. Seems to be an isolated problem with that file / image. Maybe let someone else try to print it if you can?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The fact that you printed the test image and another one of your images successfully makes me doubt it is an ink cartridge problem. Seems to be an isolated problem with that file / image.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Exactly my take too. It has to be the images themselves or intermittent settings used. <br>

This is why using reference images helps point towards the issue. </p>