martin_shakeshaft Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 <html> <head> <title>Untitled Document</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859- 1"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Every now and again some threads spark off the response 'This is political and should not be discussed on these forums'. <p>I have to say I am really saddened by this response. For me photography is recording the world about me and making comments on what I see. One of the first photographers that really inspired me was Eugene Smith, he took pictures because he thought they may make a difference.</p> <p>We live in a world where we have to more and more vigilant about the role of the state and personal freedom. Photography can be used to inform and fuel debate.. In a true democracy the more information we get the better our informed choices. Photography is politics don't try to castrate it.</p> <p>Martin</p> <p>my latest political project :-)<br> <a href="http://www.strike84.co.uk">www.strike84.co.uk</a> </p> </body> </html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas_griego Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Martin,Nice one. The BBC World service has recently been running some programs on the strikes and the repercussions that Thatchers policies had. Very interesting. People get patriotic. You can't blame them I guess. As it's not a bad thing per se - but when people buy whatever admin's policies lock stock and barrel - I find it ridiculous. Now how does this relate to photography many people ask.. well for me it seems that the papers won't run pictures of dead American soldiers nor will they run anything slightly grisly. So we have a 'clean' war that takes places someplace far away and it kind of goes on in the background. Exactly what the admin. would love to have us believe. This is dishonesty in it's most basic form. People and soldiers are being killed on both sides in droves, journalist getting nailed left and right, innocent civilians caught in the crossfire - all for dubious ends (where's the WMD? where were the powers that be when the Kurds were being gassed?) and yet on the news most of this never makes it... it's drowned out by how great the tech. is and how 'smart' the smart bombs are and the heroics that may or may not have happened. I for one would like to see the news as it happens - and let me make my own judgements on what my family can and can't handle. Save all the good warm fuzzy feelings for Halmark greeting cards. That's not what reportage/documentary photography is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar_torres Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 "That's not what reportage/documentary photography is about." Agreed. Although I don't think this theme should only be about de-politicising photography, but documentary photography should not be de-anything. It should be presented in its raw form since it's about documenting, and not about transmitting whoever's ideals or point of view. That would be personal, and should not be attached or related in any way to news reportage/documentary photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emre Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 It is not just about photography...I love it when people say "Leave politics/religion/etc. out of art." Those touchy subjects are the raison d'être for some of the best art! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_somerset1 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 "It should be presented in its raw form since it's about documenting, and not about transmitting whoever's ideals or point of view." That's one view of documentary photography. It's not the universal view, and there are sound arguments that the ideal of the disinterested documentary is a fallacy. Documentary photography and photojournalism deal with the world around us, and so they are inherently political. A street/documentary forum without politics is, well, a street forum. What's needed is not a ban on political subjects, as some demand, but some intelligence in discussing them. Too many of the political flamefests on photo.net start not because of what someone says, but because of the way it's said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas_griego Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I would have a hard time seeing how you could manage to shoot documentary images and not have them be in some way influenced. Even down to your choice of film, camera, composition etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milbourn Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 When people say a viewpoint is political they mean it is a political viewpoint they disagree with, such as being against the Iraq war. Being in favour of the status quo is not seen as political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar_torres Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 That's quoting material right there Andrew! <writes it down for future use> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkantor Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 "This is dishonesty in it's most basic form. People and soldiers are being killed on both sides in droves, journalist getting nailed left and right, innocent civilians caught in the crossfire - all for dubious ends (where's the WMD? where were the powers that be when the Kurds were being gassed?) and yet on the news most of this never makes it... it's drowned out by how great the tech. is and how 'smart' the smart bombs are and the heroics that may or may not have happened." Where were you (which means everyone reading this) when the Kurds were gassed? Where was all the liberal outrage when Saddam Hussein was murdering tens of thousands of his own people and prosecuting a war that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi soldiers and over a million Iranian ones? More Iraqis died as a result of the sanctions than will die as a result of the war and reconstruction. Where were you then? As for the reportage: Where's the outrage about a fanatic cleric trying to carve out a Shi'a empire in the middle of Iraq? Or for Baathists and foreign terrorists who only want anarchy and rule by warlord? And where's the coverage of all the quiet spots in Iraq (and Afghanistan) where reconstruction is going on? The liberal peaceniks (not necessarily anyone here, of course) that we see so often in the streets shouting about dead babies are almost always hypocrites (because they were, in fact, silent before), cowards (because they would sacrifice any number of "foreigners" for a fantasy of peace), and ultimately therefore fools who are parasites on a free, democratic society (not one of which was ever won or maintained without blood and tears). That is unfortunate, but a fact of base human nature. The sad part for our purposes is that the vast majority of journalism (western and middle-eastern both in the case of Iraq) isn't political at all, being instead merely sensationalism masquerading as objectivity and pacifism masquerading as common sense - all in order to sell papers and further careers. And the journalists themselves have been so coopted that even they can't even recognize that in their quests for their Pulitzer-shaped Grails of "Truth." (The Truth of Capitalist ideology of course.) Journalists aren't political: they are merely the lice on the body politic - and they are drawn to violence like the flies that lay their eggs on the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas_griego Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 John Kantor , apr 10, 2004; 04:39 a.m. <i>Where were you (which means everyone reading this) when the Kurds were gassed? </i> <p> Certainly not in the same position to do anything that the people with the correct information were. Umm.. current administration. Ummm.. current CIA.. Umm current DOD. Not jerking off all the people on capitol hill and siphoning off tax payer dollars. From the second it hit the news it didn't take too much to figure out who had dropped the ball on this one.. who the f*ck to do you think bank rolled this? American tax dollars that's who. Wow... surprise. Who do think propped up this jerk off before he became the current problem he is? Dumb da dumb dumb. <i>You</i> had some kind of control over it? Who are you kidding? So now you jump in to protect those who play you? <p> <i>Where was all the liberal outrage when Saddam Hussein was murdering tens of thousands of his own people and prosecuting a war that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi soldiers and over a million Iranian ones? More Iraqis died as a result of the sanctions than will die as a result of the war and reconstruction. Where were you then?</i><p> and you were any different?. Doubtful. Great blame those who are getting screwed as well. <p> <i>As for the reportage: Where's the outrage about a fanatic cleric trying to carve out a Shi'a empire in the middle of Iraq? Or for Baathists and foreign terrorists who only want anarchy and rule by warlord? And where's the coverage of all the quiet spots in Iraq (and Afghanistan) where reconstruction is going on? </i> <p> Since when did the west give a flying f*ck about what happened in the middle east to people of dark skin? Who do you think is rebuilding the middle east? This is coming in at a fair price and not some ridiculous profit margin that is US tax free right?! Maybe you haven't seen the news lately but yet again it's the taxpayer in the US who is gettin screwed here. And most of the people on a jihad wouldn't be there if the US wasn't bankrolling them 10 years before.. and then dropping the ball when it no longer suits their purpose. Man you need to get out more - in fact when was the last time you were in the middle east? Ever been to Lebanon? Israel? Jordan? Siria?... Yeah didn't think so. <p> <i> liberal peaceniks (not necessarily anyone here, of course) that we see so often in the streets shouting about dead babies are almost always hypocrites (because they were, in fact, silent before)</i> <p> Hard not to be silent when the current admin. feeds nothing but absolute BS down the pipeline. <p> <i>The sad part for our purposes is that the vast majority of journalism (western and middle-eastern both in the case of Iraq) isn't political at all, being instead merely sensationalism masquerading as objectivity and pacifism masquerading as common sense - all in order to sell papers and further careers.</i> <p> Ah... so easy to be the armchair critic isn't it. Get out and shoot some news or editorial and lets see how far you can change things. So now the rest of us should just pack it in and piss off because you have some gripe with the way it's done. It's not perfect but that doesn't mean that all people involved in it are insensitive assholes. Boy that's rich.<p> <i>And the journalists themselves have been so coopted that even they can't even recognize that in their quests for their Pulitzer-shaped Grails of "Truth." (The Truth of Capitalist ideology of course.) Journalists aren't political: they are merely the lice on the body politic - and they are drawn to violence like the flies that lay their eggs on the dead.</i> <p> You gotta be kidding here. Come on. What are you privy to some source of news and information that the rest of us aren't?! Somehow you are above it all. Nice position. Tell the rest of us how to get there. Obviously you have never had much to do with shooting news or reportage or if you have you have completely lost track of reality. Out of all the PJ's I know most of them couldn't give a rat's ass about a Pulitzer - most of them do it because of a deep sense of injustice in the way the news is shown/reported/shot. So instead of recognizing that you'd rather paint them with the same brush as a bunch of self centered, war mongering idiots that the current admin. is. Cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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