Doing things the hard way. I am not normal

So I got a new computer. Moving from the old computer to the new should take a

couple of hours. Right?. My PS CS3 was moving so slow in the old computer I

felt I had to do something. So I go out and buy a 3 gig, quad processed

computer. I figured I would get a mini hard drive to move my pictures and other

stuff and it would make it easy. I bought one and tried to hook it up. I spent

and hour on the phone and another hour or two screwing with it before the

manufacturer told me to take it back. I did. Changed brands and the second one

moved four thousand pictures in about two hours. Only cost a little over a

hundred bucks. My printer wouldn't print with Vista. Finally found the

download file from Canon. That took a while but it now prints. I probably

spent four or five hours loading software and learning the difference from XP to

Vista. I forgot to load in the scanner. I get a call to sign a contract and

email it. I said no sweat my email is working. I get the scanner loaded on the

new computer, scan the contract, and try to send the damn thing. The new

computer would not send the email out even though I was receiving messages. I

call my ISP. After an hour of screwing around they send me to microsoft. I

wait thirty minutes to talk to somebody and they tell me it is the computer

manufacturers fault. I call them. I did not buy it by mail so after waiting

there I had to call another number and wait some more. The guy who answers says

get on the microsoft site and gave me a download number. He told me that

microsoft should have told me that. After about a three hour hiatus I finally

get the contract out. So much for thorough Beta testing. This is a fairly

expensive computer. I got a Samsung 22" monitor. It has a beautiful screen but

the buttons to control it are a nightmare to operate. Maybe I am a Klutz but I

learned how to fly about twenty five different airplanes as pilot in command but

even after reading the instructions I cannot push the right button. Not to

worry because Samsung has provided software to do it on screen. However, I have

to get special Vista download. That took about three tries but I got it

running. The screen printed quite accurately out of the box but inasmuch as

Samsung provided software I thought I would calibrate anyway. Unbeknownst to me

my red ink cartridge had clogged and popped out of its socket in my Canon

printer. Trying to calibrate not knowing I had no red ink drove me to

distraction as my red kept coming out magenta. After about ten or so small

prints I gave up and went to bed bleary eyed. Just before I fell asleep it

dawned on me that maybe it was the red cartridge. I got up and installed a new

red cartridge and low and behold the red came out red the first time. How could

anyone be so dense as not to figure this out three hours and ten prints earlier.

It seems I have been living full time with this computer for the last three or

four days. However, I just printed a lovely picture of a swan taking off that

is really sharp at thirteen by nineteen. The computer itself is unbelievably

fast and everything runs better. I think, however, a normally gifted person

could have done this in about a tenth the time. The Geek squad wanted two

hundred dollars to do this. It would have been a bargain, except I have sorted

and filed the mess of files I transferred from my old computer and for the first

time in years I know where everything is. So perhaps my skill set for doing

this stuff is deficient as my performance appears to be somewhat below normal.

Gotta love the generation gap.

 

No offense meant.

Okey, to say something constructive. It's a good thing you did it yourself, as to learn a thing or two along the way (apart from getting someone else to do it for you the next time ;) )

Well Dick, those airplanes are easier to fly.;-) I don't like messy with new computers.

Especially PCs. I am not computer illiterate but they are just such a pain. I had a USB hard

drive that went dead on the first day. It took me days of email with the tech support to

convince them that there is nothing to trouble shoot when the hard drive will not turn on

at all.

 

I did make my life a little easier the last couple of years when I changed over to the Intel

Macs.

 

Recently a desktop PC died at my house and I dread fixing it. I will probably have to go

through the same experience as you.

 

My condolences.

Dick, you sure you aren't a closet 'geek'? After all, you seem to have got the better of Vista! :=)

"Gotta love the generation gap. "

 

Sure. The "new" generations changes and fixes things that do not require fixing or changing. New "fixed" and "upgraded" versions of software/devices contain more bugs and quality problems than the old ones anyway, and by definition are not compatible with old software/devices - which forces everyone to "upgrade".

 

The "new" generation also considers it normal that things do not work, after all they all have "microprocessor" and "code" inside them - and we all know that these things are susceptible to bugs. It also helps that the "new" generation do not pay for the new "upgraded" and "fixed" goodies themselves - they have the "old" generation to foot the bill (or they pay by credit card).

 

Big smile here :>D

 

But seriously - I have already cut an image of my system drive with XP on it - and will just swap it into new comp when the time comes (soon). I do not give a rat's ass about Vista and all new wonders. All I need to do is to run CS3 and process my images. If I am going to contribute to anybody getting richer - it is not going to be Bill Gates for sure.

Whenever I get a new computer (not that often) I plan the event for when I have a week off work. I'd rather start a project like that in the morning instead of the evening after a day at work.

Fredrik. I concede that there is a generation gap and I wrote that piece somewhat tongue in cheek. But letting a computer out with an obvious bug that is common enough to have microsoft issue a fix and then making the customer call four people in order to find out that there is known bug in Windows mail in this particular computer is just sloppy. They could have let me know when I registered the computer. I must confess I was in charge of major navigation systems development at a large government entity. I got along with our technical people by understanding what I didn't know and providing them with practical aviation expertise as they moved their projects along. Our aviation stuff had to function at the level of one in ten to the minus nine reliability and could not actively fail to an unsafe mode. It had to undergo extensive test and evaluation before it was released for exposure to members of the aviation public like yourself. We wanted you to be safe. Aviation ergonomics or human machine interface is developed in cooperation with human interface psychologists so that controls and displays are intuitive to use. Engineers cannot be trusted to make things work intuitively without outside help. That certainly is the case with the manual controls on my new monitor. You have to have the paper directions in front of you in order to operate them and the labels on the little push buttons are so small you can't tell one from the other. Again, I say, it's a great monitor. Let's just say I am used to a better standard of engineering. Leszak. The other thing we had to do in aviation was to work to standardized interfaces and make systems backward compatible so that a large segment of heritage users were not frozen out of accessibility. Vista rendered some of my software incompatible without upgrade and those upgrades have to be sought out and found by the user. Adobe does automatic upgrades for my CS3 and it did work fine with Vista, however.

Dick - you are preaching to the converted...I am aeronautical engineer myself, and I am used to certain quality in engineering. This quality, however, is harder and harder to find - as the ever powerful drive to maximize profits prevails every time. Thus barely qualified people are given the job to design everything - and of course they are paid less.

 

Even less stringent standards and requirements are obviously present in other industries - after all, every bug in Vista or any other piece of software is another dollar in the pockets of Microsoft - as you will need to "upgrade". Makes me really sick to the stomach - but this is the way it is and I do not hope to change it.

Good for you Dick.

 

My 13 year old and I play a game, it's called "I just screwed up the computer now see if you can fix it". So far I'm winning. I figure I'll be a desktop systems genius by the time he graduates high school.

 

Screw your generation gap.

this is why i like apple computers so much

"Sure. The "new" generations changes and fixes things that do not require fixing or changing. New "fixed" and "upgraded" versions of software/devices contain more bugs and quality problems than the old ones anyway, and by definition are not compatible with old software/devices - which forces everyone to "upgrade".

 

The "new" generation also considers it normal that things do not work, after all they all have "microprocessor" and "code" inside them - and we all know that these things are susceptible to bugs. It also helps that the "new" generation do not pay for the new "upgraded" and "fixed" goodies themselves - they have the "old" generation to foot the bill (or they pay by credit card). "

 

What I actually meant was that the younger generation do have somewhat easier to learn all this new technology and adapt with it. And that last part is a pretty big generalization, don't you think ;) I do realize that you are kidding, but I feel like pointing it out anyway since others will probably take it too seriously.

 

"I must confess I was in charge of major navigation systems development at a large government entity. I got along with our technical people by understanding what I didn't know and providing them with practical aviation expertise as they moved their projects along. Our aviation stuff had to function at the level of one in ten to the minus nine reliability and could not actively fail to an unsafe mode. It had to undergo extensive test and evaluation before it was released for exposure to members of the aviation public like yourself. We wanted you to be safe."

 

And this has to do with what when it comes to building and configuring PCs? I've build and installed 4 PCs from scratch (i.e bought the components) in 1 day. So I don't see what you being a ex. major-navigation-systems-development-in-charge-person has anything to do with your ability to install a PC. It's two different areas within computing. It all comes down to learning the hard way. I've been in the same boat as you, 4 or 5 years ago when I started interesting myself in computers. But now I've learn to fix most problems. Just because I've played Flight Simulator X doesn't mean I can fly a Boeing, now does it?

 

"But letting a computer out with an obvious bug that is common enough to have Microsoft issue a fix and then making the customer call four people in order to find out that there is known bug in Windows mail in this particular computer is just sloppy."

 

The Microsoft do actually have a really good web support. Chances are there's and error log lying around somewhere on your drive which could have helped you. The people on the support line ain't the smartest around. They have a list that they have to go through with general troubleshooting and has access to pretty much the same information that can be found on Microsoft's web support. Don't call them expecting miracles.

 

By the way, most updates are provided by Windows Update. You did run that before calling I assume.

 

"after all, every bug in Vista or any other piece of software is another dollar in the pockets of Microsoft - as you will need to "upgrade"."

 

Que?

 

Upgrades are free. Unless your going from Vista to XP etc.

 

Now, most of you probably think that I believe only in my own and my generations knowledge withing computing and that I'm an arrogant fool. Please realize that's not the case. But I would have to claim that people my age have grown up with computers and the fast development within the technology in another way than the "older generation" have, at least when it comes to PCs.

Fredrik. You are right with your last. I have my grandson program my cell phone. The computer, however, was four days old when I tried to email. I would have expected to get it in working order and not spend two hours on the phone(mostly on hold) trying find someone to help me with a problem. And I would say your computer knowledge is rather unique. After all you had to build four computers to gain it. My background gives me a certain expectation for technical excellence and initial quality that I did not find in a rather expensive piece of equipment either in operation or in human interface. Just to carry the aviation analogy further, the Navy F-18 fighter is far more complex, I think, than my computer. I adapted to the heads up display that I had never seen before and was effectively controlling the airplane after about twenty minutes in the Navy simulator. It was unbelievably intuitive(a word that does not apply to much of the software I use). That simulator flight was not a video game. It is so like the airplane that it obviates the need for a significant, expensive, airborne training hours. That kind of interface can be mightily improved both on cameras and computers. The fault was not with microsoft, it was in the manufacturers operating system interface with Windows Mail as I understand it. The OS simply gagged on outgoing emails until the patch was installed. Just like the flying public, the computer consumer has the expectation of not having to find an arcane error log to solve a problem. After all the the email worked the first time out when I acquired XP. I do not think you an arrogant fool. You are certainly no fool but I think your product expectations may be rather low. Cameras and computers are simply tools and for me; simply a means to achieve an end and not a cause celebre. I want want to screw with them as little as possible. My goal is to use them to produce good pictures that I can frame and show. I love the capability of printing and editing in my own home. It far more preferable than struggliing in a hot, smelly darkroom. You are right about one thing. I always learn something in one of these computer fiascos. My problem is that they happen over a broad variety of issues, at the most inopportune times, and I will never, ever learn it all and be prepared for any eventuality. So I applaud your knowledge. You should go into the business and take advantage of the fallibility of these machines at a hundred dollars an hour. Yes flight simulators are expensive but at the volume computers and software are sold there should be sufficient R&D to do some better human engineering.

Thanks for sharing. And I won't say it. Ok, I will. It's why I have a Mac G5. Bought it and

brought it home to discover they set the 1 password wrong and didn't set the other two.

An hour on the phone with Apple guy, all fixed and it's never hiccuped once.

 

All software has updated or loaded without problems, and nothing has ever crashed except

Safari with reopens without a hitch. I've installed two printers and two scanners without

problems and the software picked them up the first time. I haven't spent one minute since

the initial hour at the system level solving anything.

 

Now the only problem is the mental klutz using it. But at least a Mac doesn't make you

feel stupid, just thoughtless.

Maybe I should have bought a MAC Scott.

"Maybe I should have bought a MAC Scott". I'll second that opinion. My wife was a loyal PC user, but she always wanted a new computer about every year or two. Not because the computer was outdated, but because it would get slower and slower (due to spy and malware) and error messages would become more frequent. When the frustration become too much, she would want a new computer. I would alway suggest a Mac, but she would cite the cost, as bargain PC's can be found for way less than most Macs. So we'd by another PC and repeat the cycle. During all this time, my trusty Mac has been going strong for eight years, with none of the problems her PC's have had. Well, finally I convinced her to get a MacBook after her latest PC become too unbearable to use. Since then, it's been smooth sailing with no computer problems. Some may consider Mac users to be almost cult-like in their loyalty to apple computers, but the reality is that Macs on average just get the job done with far fewer headaches than the average PC.

Dick,

 

I think your past experience shows some of the difference in how companies/organizations look at equipment documentation.

 

Way back in 1968-1972 I was an avionics technician in the US Air Force specializing in navigational aids equipment. We had excellent training and they provided complete documentation.

 

I remember in 1980 buying my Apple II computer. The documentation was so complete, one could build a clone of that computer.

 

Now it seems that companies don't bother. Why doesn't Microsoft provide online, the same material they give their trouble desk personnel? Then if one has the technical savvy they can fix the problem themself.

 

Why doesn't Microsoft or other companies provide a do-it-yourself upgrade manual on-line?

 

You could state what components you want to use and it would say if they were compatible. It would also download all the updated drivers.

 

As it is now, You have to do this yourself. It takes a lot of planning and knowledge. It is probably why I won't go to Vista for my next computer. I would rather build my next computer with XP Pro with SP3.

"You are certainly no fool but I think your product expectations may be rather low."

 

Or maybe yours are too high. But I can see where you are coming from. When buying a new product one does expect it to work properly without a fuss. Who would want to buy a product that doesn't work (fly an airplane that can't take off). But I'm also "used" to fixing these sort of thing, therefor I don't really make a big deal out of it when things don't go my way. Same as you can adapt to a new airplane HUDs, I can adapt to new software when it comes to computers.

 

It's a matter of experience. Period.

By my count, two of your problems were from hardware and three from Vista; both hardware problems were easily and quickly resolved once you realized what they were, the Vista ones not so quickly and easily. The bottom line seems to me to be, stick with XP and avoid Vista.

Well some of the explanation for scanty documentation is product liability. I know from my work experience that the lawyers are into everything. The other explanation is that software changes so much the expense of formulating and delivering such is prohibitive. Fredrik, flying that HUD requires basic flying skills but the human factors engineers who designed that did a spectacular job with it and made it easy. I have used Flight Management systems that weren't near as intuitive and required training to master. There are two categories of user with cameras and computers IMO. The nerds(I am not accusing your of being one, only you know) and the unwashed. The unwashed)are those who use computers and cameras as tools to accomplish specific tasks like accounting or picture taking and printing while the nerds take great pleasure in the equipment itself and that becomes an end in itself. The unwashed far outnumber the nerds who take pleasure into diving into the frightening realm of ones and zeroes.I did take a year of computer science a long time ago. All of what I learned is obolete. Anybody want a fortran program?. My hobby is not constructing computers. The user interface should be designed for the unwashed. Why do you suppose you have to wait for long on everyone help line? Because people have lots of problems with their interface with equipment. This has been a good discussion and maybe one day, just through unwanted exposure, I may become a semi-nerd. To each is own. I hate helplines. I have had so many conversations stemming from India that I am becoming acculturated. My best to you. I have enjoyed the dialog. There some very nice people on the other end in Indea. Sometimes I wish I could understand them better and that they knew a bit more, however. Have some pity for the unwashed. Good luck Fredrik

"The nerds(I am not accusing your of being one, only you know)"

 

Being a nerd is a good thing imo. It is of course a matter of definition, but in my world a nerd is someone who takes great interest in something, so be it sports, flying or computing. So yes, I'm a nerd, but no offense taken.

mac, schmack. kidding. sort of.

 

my server runs XP; my laptop is Vista. Once I got over the cost of upgrading software, printers, etc., I have almost forgotten how to fix XP. Funny - my mother, wife, son, and mother-in-law all also play the 'I screwed it up for the 3rd time this week, now you fix it' game.

 

Except my son (13) is a Teachers Assistant in school teaching Excel, Publisher and stuff

Mac can fail too. They just don't make them like they use to. When they fail, they fail

hard. Backup, Backup, Backup. It is the only way to survive. The files are getting so big

now adays, thank goodness storgage prices are falling.

 

Check me out sometime. Our website is:

 

www.sun-shots.com

 

We backup everything, and sometimes that can still fail.

 

Ryan

Hey Dick, I enjoyed your mild-mannered rant. I'm currently doing the same thing, although I haven't plugged the printer in yet!

 

Cheers, Nige