does High Speed Sync diminish the life of a speedlight

<p>I'm looking to do an outdoor portrait project with the new Godox/Neewer 850 speedlights using their HSS function with my Canon 60D and/or EOS M.<br>

I need to kill lots of ambient light with high shutter speeds.<br>

It seems that the continuous pulsing used by the flash to achieve HSS would prematurely shorten the life of the speedlight compared to just regular single pops.<br />Does anybody have any input on this? <br>

Thanks,</p>

Don't know the answer but another way of looking

at it is, what is more important to you: getting the

shots you want or making the gear last as long as

possible?

<p>Thanks Brian,<br>

It's a budgeting issue. If I'm going to wear out the units faster than usual, I want to know that beforehand so I can purchase accordingly.</p>

<p>I have no idea but the flash will turn off when it overheats. If that happens often it's a sign you're putting too much stress on it.<br>

BTW, I have never heard that HSS can shorten the flash's life.</p>

<p>Hi Bob,<br>

HSS is actually not the full power flash but longer bursts. It will damage the flash in the long run, but how often are you going to be using the HSS function? Go for it.</p>

<p>I think it may shorten the life of the flash tube, but not the flash itself. Can the flash tube be replaced on the flash you are looking at?</p>

<p>I know that they can be replaced on Canon and Nikon speedlights and are also available for those that can do it themselves at low cost, $10 or so.</p>

<p>That's a great question Pete. I'll have to Google around and see if the tubes are replaceable.The speedlight itself is pretty cheap, around $107 US so it's not the biggest calamity if I have to replace it sooner than I'd like but replacing tubes would be great.<br>

And Starvy, for this project, I would be using HSS exclusively on any given day.<br>

Thanks,</p>

How close will the lights be to the subject? Unless you are working with the speedlights close to the subject you might find

yourself needing multiple speedlights to overcome "lots of ambient light" if by that you mean daylight.

The quick succession of

flashes produced in FP flash

mode probably puts no more

strain on the tube or

circuitry than the multiple

pre-flashes used for TTL

exposure control and slaving

other flashes.

 

And if you're worried you can

use almost any old flash for

FP exposure. Just as long as

you have an FP/HSS compatible

flash fitted to the camera's

hotshoe. Search for FP or HSS

threads in this forum to see

how it's done.

BTW. Using FP synch and a

high shutter speed gains you

nothing in terms of ambient

to flash ratio. The flash

either has enough power to

compete with the ambient

light, or it doesn't. Using

FP synch won't increase the

power of your flash.

"BTW. Using FP synch and a high shutter speed gains you nothing in terms of ambient to flash ratio. The flash either has

enough power to compete with the ambient light, or it doesn't. Using FP synch won't increase the power of your flash."

 

No it won't . But if it is either powerful enough in FP /HSS /Hypersync mode and if it is close enough to the subject if

definitely can overpower daylight.

<p>I don't know, but would doubt HSS has much effect on the flash tube life.<br>

It does have to fire for the full shutter speed duration instead of a much shorter brief pulse, but it operates at most at about 20% power level to be able to do that. </p>

<p>I'm going to be very close. Close enough to hand-hold the speedlight with my subject only a few fee away. I would be shooting at very low power levels (if shooting regular, without the HSS). I've seen the effect accomplished with leaf shutter cameras where a shutter speed of 1/1000 or so is used to drop the ambient around three stops, maybe more, and the flash is used just for the subject. And I won't be trying to kill bright sunlight, more like open shade.</p>

<p>I'm speaking Nikon, and assuming most is the same.</p>

<p>I think you will be towards higher power (higher for HSS, which is low). A few feet is fairly far for HSS. :) Fill flash only needs about 1/4 the power of a main flash (to be one stop down), and in bright sun, HSS has about ten feet range (as fill). Joe McNally has promoted HSS for fill in sunlight, but he uses about four larger flashes ganged in tandem. :)</p>

<p>HSS is continuous light, like sunlight is continuous light. HSS acts more like a desk lamp, it does not act like flash. The thing to know about continuous is that Equivalent Exposure works again, both for ambient light and for HSS flash. The manual probably gives Guide Number for 1/500 second HSS, but again, the thing to know is that (for HSS) the same GN is good for any equivalent exposure. High shutter speed greatly reduces both ambient and HSS exposure, but for both, we open aperture to compensate (equivalent exposures).<br>

But I doubt long life of flashtube will be a concern.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"I've seen the effect accomplished with leaf shutter cameras where a shutter speed of 1/1000 or so is used to drop the ambient around three stops, maybe more, and the flash is used just for the subject."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The point is, unless you need a high shutter speed to get a wide aperture, that the ambient light isn't actually "dropped" by using FP synch. Say your flash exposure at normal X-synch (~1/250th) needs an aperture of f/11, and the open shade needs f/5.6. This puts your flash two stops above the ambient. Now you increase your shutter speed to 1/500th and go into the realm of FP synch. You'll now find that the flash needs an aperture of f/8, because it outputs the same total amount of light, and the ambient needs f/4 - same two stop difference. Increasing the shutter speed to 1/1000th still gets you nowhere, because now the flash needs an aperture of f/5.6 and the ambient needs f/2.8. Hummm, that's still two stops difference!</p>

<p>It doesn't matter how you juggle the ratio between flash and ambient, using FP synch won't change it. The limit will still be how powerful your flash is and how far distant it is from the subject.</p>

<p>I hope I'm allowed to link to a post on another webite.<br />Maybe I'm just confused but look at this photo: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1209248<br>

From what I THOUGHT I understood, the high shutter speed allowed the overall scene to be underexposed while the flash can light the subject as desired. That is why I thought there were two separate exposures to be made - one for the overall scene (underexposed to the desired degree with a higher shutter speed) and the other by adjusting the power of the speedlight. I see these examples often when photogs describe how the X100's allow this because they can sync at very high speeds. So for instance, I have my subject in the open shade. But I want to lower the overall light values of the scene. I want to leave my aperture around f2.8 or f4 for depth of field reasons. If shorten the shutter duration to, say 1/1000 of a second, I get a nice dark overall scene, underexposed from a normal exposure. Now I light my subject with the flash adjusting the power until I get the value on the subject that is 'normal', exposed correctly. Given my example, isn't that the correct evaluation of the process to get the look I want?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I think you're generally correct, but are overlooking that the Fuji 100s is a big difference. It's special shutter can sync regular flash at (I think) 1/4000 second. The DSLR cannot.<br /> <br /> So that Fuji is not doing HSS at all, it is using regular flash mode. DSLR cannot.<br /> <br /> <strong>Regular speedlight flash</strong> - amazingly fast duration at lower power levels (called speedlights), and so flash exposure is not affected by shutter speed (flash is faster than the shutter). And full power is available.</p>

<p><br /> <strong>HSS flash</strong> - runs about 20% power anyway, and is continuous light (like the sun), so fast shutter speeds simply decimate its exposure (like the sun). You can open the aperture (equivalent exposure), but that helps the ambient just as much.<br /> <br /> You want to use fast shutter to reduce the ambient, but fast shutter also reduces the continuous HSS flash BY <strong>THE SAME AMOUNT</strong>. No gain for your purpose, unless you can turn the HSS power up (get a few HSS flashes ganged together (8 equal flashes is 3 stops more). HSS is NOT at all like regular flash. Continuous light is continuous light.<br /> <br /> The plan could work with regular flash (except for fastest shutter speed) because shutter speed does NOT reduce the regular flash exposure - because the speedlight flash is typically faster than the shutter.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Good explanation Wayne.<br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I think you're generally correct, but are overlooking that the Fuji 100s is a big difference. It's special shutter can sync regular flash at (I think) 1/4000 second. The DSLR cannot.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That "special shutter" is a Leaf Shutter. It can sync up to 1/4000 using the built-in flash or an on-camera speed-light.<br>

<br>

http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php/topic/8857-flash-sync-speed-for-x-100-s/<br>

</p>

 

 

<blockquote>

<p >It doesn't matter how you juggle the ratio between flash and ambient, using FP synch won't change it. The limit will still be how powerful your flash is and how far distant it is from the subject.</p>

</blockquote>

 

 

 

<p>There in lies the rub. Generally, built-ins and on-camera speed lights are pretty weak for out-door work (depending on the ambient conditions and distance to subject).<br>

<br>

When you move to more powerful lighting solutions, the flash duration at various power levels has to be taken into consideration … and if you then use a radio trigger, the max sync speed of the trigger device has to be understood … typically, many are 1/500 for leaf-shutter cameras, or in the case of Profoto AIR 1/1000 in speed mode. <br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>DSLR cannot.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> That may be changing … TTL off-camera strobes with HSS are the next wave … the difference being that the HSS output from a 500 W/s strobe is a lot more than HSS with a 70 W/s speed-light. <br>

<br>

- Marc<br>

</p>

<p>Here is a post from another blog about using the Godox 850 speedlight that has caught my eye because of its HSS capabilities - http://michaelmowbray.com/2014/05/09/godoxneewer-850-the-perfect-studio-speedlight/<br>

In the photo of the young woman he's using a fill light that I would do without. I want a more dramatic lighting and I'll take the shadows.<br />The photog was able to sync at 1/1,600 of a sec. with the flash at 1/2 power.<br>

Anyway, this was the flash and style of street portrait that made me raise the question in the first place.<br />And again, distance of the flash to the subject is going to be VERY close.</p>

<p>1/1600 at 1/2 power, but at f/1.8, and ISO or distance was not mentioned. So we don't know a lot.<br /> <br /> Not sure what you are expecting, but I think the flash is special only because of the battery... its type and capacity and recycle speed. Sounds good, but that in itself will not affect HSS exposure.</p>

<p>Guide Number 58 (meters) is surely at maximum zoom, and so it is a large speedlight (like many others are large... Nikon SB-800 is same GN, they just don't advertise it only at the 105mm zoom maximum value). And the price is right, but these are regular flash GN, not about HSS.</p>

<p>We need a user manual with a GN chart, but ..</p>

<p>Other HSS units typically (roughly) have a HSS GN about 1/3 of regular mode GN, specified at 1/500 second.</p>

<p>For HSS, any equivalent exposure would have the same GN.</p>

<p>Zoom 24mm GN is generally about half of 105mm zoom GN.</p>

<p>With these very vague generalizations, 58/2 = GN 29/95 (meters/feet) at 24mm.<br /> 1/3 of that for HSS is about GN 10/32 (meters/feet).</p>

<p>So GN 32 at 6 feet is f/5.3 at 1/500 second, ISO 100, 24mm, direct flash.</p>

<p>Or one equivalent exposure is f/2.6 at 1/2000 second (two stops is fstop / 2, shutter denominator x 4)<br /> Would not bet on my precision, but possibly halfway ballpark, and it sounds doable if close.</p>

<p>But aperture, shutter speed, or ISO will all affect ambient the same as HSS flash. In camera P mode in sunlight, we can spin the equivalent combinations up or down without affecting either ambient or HSS flash exposure.</p>

<p>This is because both are continuous light. As far as the shutter is concerned, the HSS light was there when it opened, and was there when it closed. To the shutter, it is same as daylight was always there...continuous. HSS reacts very differently than regular speedlight mode.</p>

<p>Even using a leaf shutter doesn't buy you much extra flash-to-ambient ratio. Below is a graph of light output over time for a typical hotshoe style flash (i.e. speedlite or speedlight). You'll see that it takes a short but finite time for the flash to reach its maximum output, after which it decays relatively slowly.</p>

<p>A leaf shutter at 1/1000th of a second will capture around 50% of the useful light output, so you're already down a stop on the exposure required at 1/250th second (4 ms). At 1/4000th of a second the flash hardly has time to reach its peak output, and even if it did, the shutter would only allow a small slice of the useable light output through.</p>

<p>All-in-all, the advantages of using flash with a high shutter speed are grossly overrated and overstated.</p>

<p>BTW. In those shots by Michael Mobray, he's using FP synch to enable a wide aperture to be used, and not to overpower the daylight. If you notice, the daylight is sunset/twilight in two examples and dull/overcast in the other. None of them would look much different - apart from the depth-of-field - if normal X-synch and a smaller aperture had been used.</p>

<p>I also don't see any reason why the (frankly ugly) lighting of the woman and dog shot couldn't have been duplicated at a slower shutter speed. An ND filter would knock the daylight exposure down just as effectively as using a high shutter speed.</p><div></div>

"I also don't see any reason why the (frankly ugly) lighting of the woman and dog shot couldn't have been duplicated at a

slower shutter speed. An ND filter would knock the daylight exposure down just as effectively as using a high shutter

speed."

 

That's why people have opinions: so they can find things to disagree about. (-;

 

For fashion light I think it's perfectly fine, if you like that raw look. The background however is crap. Why is it crap (imo of course)? Because it's distracting and doesn't a single thing to the photograph. It's just visual garbage.

<blockquote>

<p>I also don't see any reason why the (frankly ugly) lighting of the woman and dog shot couldn't have been duplicated at a slower shutter speed. An ND filter would knock the daylight exposure down just as effectively as using a high shutter speed.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> Regardless of your opinion of the shot, wouldn't a ND filter also effect the flash exposure requiring more light on the subject? (which is okay IF you have more light).<br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Even using a leaf shutter doesn't buy you much extra flash-to-ambient ratio.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> That depends on what leaf-shutter camera you are using. Focal Plane Medium Format cameras are typically 1/125 sync … where a leaf shutter MF camera can be 1/500 or 1/1000 sync (and in one case 1/1600). <br>

<br>

Despite charts to the contrary, practically speaking that can be the difference between a white blown sky or blue sky and clouds.<br>

<br>

In the example below, where I knew I would be force into a difficult lighting situation before hand, I brought a 600 W/s pack set to full power with a magnum modifier, and combined it with an on-camera speed-light set to max zoom and manual full power aimed straight at the distant back-lit subjects. In reality, I needed at least 1200 W/s, but made due. Back-up shots with a focal plane camera set to 1/200 max sync resulted in a blown sky except in the far left side. This was printed 12" X 18" in a wedding album, and each face was clear and identifiable. <br>

<br>

IMO, and direct experience, Leaf Shutters work better than you "grossly" dismiss and "understate" … they have saved me in many cases where the time of day and place the client wants to shoot is out of my control. </p><div></div>

<p>In this case, I used on-camera HSS because I was close enough to fill the back-lit subject while knocking down the background 2 stops and avoiding blown highlight areas from a hot sun high camera left.</p><div></div>

<p>One other aspect of using a Leaf Shutter camera is that IF there is a trail off of lighting as shown in the chart above, the effect is one of vignetting because of the way a leaf-shutter works.</p>

<p>Vignetting of that uniform type is often either pleasant looking pictorially, or exceedingly easy to adjust in post using well developed lens vignetting tools found in virtually every photo editing program available. </p>

<p>In this case there was some minor Leaf-Shutter vignetting @ 1/1000, which I then enhanced even more … </p>

<div></div>