Do the newer AF modules have face recognition or not?

<p>I'm very unclear about this and can't seem to find any information that's reliable. I use a D200. One of the biggest annoyances with it is the not so great AF system. It's pretty good, but it often picks not the AF point I was intending. Or suddenly switches AF points on a whim, against my will!</p>

<p>DP review mentions face recognition in live view mode on the D5000? is this only in live view? I also remember vaguely KR mentioning something how his D3 always focused on the faces of people better than his D300. I think I read that a while ago when them came out, I could be mistaken, and so could he. Is it a function of the multi cam 3500 from the D3/D300 that has this "facial recognition", or does it not even exist? I don't think I'd use live view that much. does the facial recognition work in regular shooting on the D5000?</p>

<p>Basically I'm trying to figure if an upgrade would help my situation. Or would I still end up getting focused on the wrong spot, just faster and with more AF points! ?<br>

Is there actually something in these newer AF modules that's telling the processor, "yes those are eyes, focus on them" ?</p>

<p>I'm not sure this answers your question, but one of the things lacking in my D40 is focal points (I only have three). The D200 has 11 and you can choose which one you want to focus on...whether it be face or something else.</p>

<p>I am pretty sure face detection is only in live view, where there is picture information going through the sensor.<br>

while the newer af systems out there are better than the D200, you shouldnt have that much trouble with it except in low light or in fast moving subjects. If the camera is moving the af point on you uncontrollably, you need to figure out what mode it is in and change it. <br>

Single point af with or without focus and recompose is really pretty reliable and safe in most instances. Although it is vastly overstated on the internet, this is a situation where reading the manual will yield much better results than buying a new camera, unless you really read the new camera manual too!</p>

 

<p>I am pretty sure face detection is only in live view, where there is picture information going through the sensor.<br>

while the newer af systems out there are better than the D200, you shouldnt have that much trouble with it except in low light or in fast moving subjects. If the camera is moving the af point on you uncontrollably, you need to figure out what mode it is in and change it. <br>

Single point af with or without focus and recompose is really pretty reliable and safe in most instances. Although it is vastly overstated on the internet, this is a situation where reading the manual will yield much better results than buying a new camera, unless you really read the new camera manual too!</p>

 

<p>It does not have face recognition but the multi cam 3500 is a huge improvement on the D200. (I have both)<br>

Because it locks focus on a moving subject I think some reviewers say it acts like a camera with face recognition hence the confusion.</p>

<p>why not just your spot metering or CW and choose your own AF point? if you are otherwise happy with your camera no need to switch.</p>

<p>I do centre focus and recompose a fair bit. But I find a lot of the time just for taking candid family photos especially, I have to be quick. So it's camera up, frame, snap. And a lot of the time it's "whoops! focused on your knee"</p>

<p>So i'm wondering if the newer AF systems are more apt at handling that type of thing.</p>

<p>AF module of DSLR is nothing but the line sensors combined in different patterns. Line (one-dimensional) sensor won't be able to detect two-dimensional objects like faces. Face detection is only possible with the image (two-dimensional) sensor.</p>

<p>When it picks the AF point you weren't intending: it is your mistake and you don't let the camera deceide which point to choose, but do it yourself.</p>

<p>In the following review</p>

<p>http://nikonglass.blogspot.com/2009/07/nikon-d5000.html</p>

<p>the authur says</p>

<p>"the AF in the D5000 with its face detection technology really rocks"</p>

<p>So i guess it does have face detection.</p>

<p>PK</p>

<p>Face detection mode is part of "live veiw" mode. In this particular thread, we are talking about the "phase(not 'face')-detection" AF module which has unfortunately nothing to do with "live view" that utilizes image sensor.</p>

<p>I have face detection in all my camra's, D700 and D2h and others in the past! I look in the viewfinder, detect the face and put an AF point on it. And it works better als electronic FD, because I can detect the face I want.</p>

<p>Good point, Hans, I was kind of thinking the same thing. Face detection is a nice thing "because we can", but on the other hand, we already always could, using eye, viewfinder and brain. Not exactly a killer feature.</p>

<p>I'm mostly confused that you have focus points suddenly changing on their own. For me (on D300), it's usually because my nose hits the control-pad-button-thing (which you can lock, yes, but I change focus points a lot, rather than focus-recompose, so I never lock it). The only other time they change on their own is when I use the full auto AF mode where the camera figures out what I want in focus - and to me, that mode only makes sense for F/11-wide angle-type of shots, where I want maximum DoF; in all other cases, the focus point is really mine to choose.<br>

So, I guess maybe if you descrive more in depth how you work, it might be possible for somebody here to explain what's causing it to act erratic? I had a D80 for quite some time, nearly the same AF as the D200, and it never acted weird to me.</p>

<p>"facial recognition" is a misnomer; although I can see why it got this label.</p>

<p>The 3500 Multi-cam AF system in Nikon's cameras "appears" to have the ability to recognize a face. This is primarily due to the newer AF system using color discrimination in 51 point dynamic AF. It is amazing how well it works; uncanny might be a better word. Now if you place someone with a white suit in front of a white wall, it won't work well.</p>

<p>Contrast and/or phase detection + RGB discrimination +many cross point sensors points make for one amazing AF system.</p>

<p>What really rocks about the 3500 system is we often do <strong>not </strong>need to focus and recompose because of this systems ability to (see) the difference between a primary subject and the background. This should not be confused with "Closest Subject" focusing which is much older technology.</p>

<p>I've had my d3 and D 300 for some time now and am blown away by the AF system compared to anything else currently out there.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The D5000 has a face priority AF mode that can detect up to 5 faces in the scene: <a href="http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D5000/preview/">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D5000/preview/</a></p>

<p>Otherwise, the Multi-CAM 3500 used on the D300, D700 and D3 family has basic face-recognation capability in the Auto-Area AF mode.</p>

<p>Why are we doing this discussion? Face detection is something for pHd shooters, not for a real shooter.</p>

<p>Hans, face recognition is a feature Nikon provides and advertises (e.g. in the D5000 press release). Like any other new technology, in the early days it does not necessarily work very well. If you prefer not to use such feature as I don't (I don't find face recognition particularly useful and effective either, at least with the D3, D300, etc.), just don't use it. However, this is a perfectly appropriate topic for this forum, again, because it is a feature Nikon provides and even advertises. In particular, beginners and some casual photographers may find it useful.</p>

<p>When you want to use a D3/300/700 as a pHd camera it is not forbidden, but WHY??????????????????????<br>

I can drive 20mph with a ferrari too, dut do I need a ferrari for that.....................</p>

<p>Hans, again, face recognition is available on consumer cameras such as the D5000 and clearly consumers may find that very useful.</p>

<p>Additionally, the D3 is a popular news camera. When a reporter holds a camera high up to shoot into a crowd (without looking thru the viewfinder), face recognition AF could potentially be very useful, provided if that works well. Just because your application does not need such a feature or you don't understand why it can be useful should not prevent others from discussing it.</p>

<p>As far as the D200 "switching" the focus point "on its own". What AF-Area mode do you have it on? Closest Subject Priority [the big square] and Group Dynamic [the big triangle] are going to pick the focus point for you. This is what they are <em>supposed </em> to do. Single area AF and Dynamic Area AF will allow you to pick the focus point. Your camera's manual will go into more detail on this.<br /> <br /> If you have it set to Single Area or Dynamic area and it is moving the focus point, then you might have a short or a problem with the little joystick button. At that point, if the camera is still under warranty (my D200 is) the I would send it to Nikon to have them take a look at it.<br /> <br /> <br /> Shun,<br /> <br /> I hope they never add Face Recognition to any of the Pro or Semi-Pro bodies. Because if they do, the next step is going to be other auto modes like Sports, Landscape, etc. One of the biggest reasons I purchased a Semi-Pro body was to get rid of the auto dial for the WB/ISO/EXPOSURE MODE dial. If a PJ wants face recognition, then maybe they should buy a D5000. Just my opinion of course.</p>

<p>Keith, I know where you are coming from but I'll never complain if something comes with TOO many features. The more tools the better IMO - if you know how to use them.</p>

<p>Keith, please re-read my earlier posts. The Multi-CAM 3500 AF module has face recognition capability in the Auto Area mode (although I don't think it is working very well). Therefore, all current high-end Nikon DSLRs (D3, D3X, D700, D300, and D300s) already have this feature. Again, if one cannot see the (future) potential of such capability once it is refined, please simply don't use it. I see absolutely no reason that having the face recognition feature will lead to scene modes (e.g. sports, macro, portrait ...) on high-end DSLRs.</p>

<p>Thank you Shun and Pete for the useful information. I see now Shun if I had ready your D700 review a bit more carefully I would have found my answer there in the first place</p>

<p>I really don't see why anyone could NOT want a camera, professional or otherwise, to have facial recognition. Perhaps it's just my style of shooting, (I don't think so) but 99% of the time when a person is taking up a reasonably large part of the frame, they ARE the subject. I want the focus on their face, not their hand or knee or the trees behind them or the front of a beach umbrella with the subjects sitting underneath it.</p>

<p>While I don't have high hopes of getting the D200 any better, maybe I'll fiddle with the different AF modes a bit more.</p>

<p>Lastly, so the Auto Area mode that works as a pseudo "person detector" on the AF 3500, is it the same between the D300, 700, D3 etc. ? I DO remember KR saying it's much better on the D3, but who knows if that's true...and who knows if that statement he wrote is even posted on his website anymore. A more rational, learned opinion would be greatly appreciated.</p>

 

<p>do you soot sports or wildlife? if not then af is probably not required.</p>

<p>The FD feature in auto area AF (big white dot) used by the 3500 engine is the same between the D300, D700 and D3. Its just a bit slower on the D300 as this model does not have the same processing grunt as the d3. Its about the same speed as the D700.</p>