Deductive Minds Wanted - CF card issue

<p>Hopefully this will be easily answered by someone and I can get a little piece of mind. Here are the details:<br>

1. Middle of a portrait session (had already shot approx 45 images) with <strong>40D</strong> (current firmware) & 2x off-camera flash. Fresh batteries, non-tethered, all going well.<br>

2. <strong>Lexar Pro 400x</strong>, 8GB CF (UDMA) - was already 1/4 full however has been formatted (always in camera) within the last week. Just some earlier photo's sitting on there.<br>

3. Put the camera down for five minutes to adjust light stands (so it went to sleep), when I tried to resume shooting (I 'wake it up' with the shutter button) a message flashed on the back saying something in the ways of <strong>"THE CURRENT CF CARD IS NOT FORMATTED"</strong> and to please format the card. NO error message #.<br>

4. After a small aneurism, I turned the camera off, checked all connections/batteries/CF slot pins etc, turned it back on and the same message appeared. Did this all a second time and everything came back to life magically as if nothing had happened.</p>

<p>All gear has been well maintained, clean dry and the like. I managed to retrieve all photo's with no corruption and even shot a few more test frames to check (no issues). Has anyone experienced the same issue? and, Is this the beginning of the end for either my CF card or the camera?</p>

<p>Your input is greatly appreciated.<br>

Regards, James</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Glad you were able to recover your shots. If you're as paranoid as I am, I'd say it's time to get a new CF card. In any case, since you do have all your shots, why not format the card and do some non-critical test shooting and see what happens. For anything important, though, I think a new car is the answer...</p>

<p>I think your card is going. When you store a picture on a card, it writes the picture to the card and writes a little entry in a special place of the chip that's really small and just tells your camera/computer about that picture and where it is on the card itself. That prevents your camera having to search the entire card to find out how much space is left and how many pictures are on it. If it had to, you'd have to wait a few minutes for it to investigate the chip each time you turned on the camera. When you format the card, you're really only erasing the little section and not the image itself (that's why if you accidentally format the card you can easily get the images back as long as you don't use it).</p>

<p>When you turn on the camera (or wake it up) it reads that small section to determine how many pictures are on it, space, etc. and if it can't read it thinks the card isn't formatted. That part is critical to the storing of images, and I'm pretty certain is the beginning of the end for your CF. It's one of those things that starts to happen more, and more often and one day just won't work. You don't know if that day will be today, or next year, but get a new card. It's very unlikely your camera.</p>

<p>Thanks William, I'm approving that purchase through the "boss" now. I just also want that peace of mind that it won't happen to another card if there is indeed an issue with the camera.</p>

<p>Matt, you seem to know allot more about the CF file structure than I do; thank you for the response. This kind of worries me as the card in question is only two years old (and honestly not too heavily used). Bad luck I guess.</p>

<p>Maybe something went wrong in the last formatting of the card?</p>

<p>Or maybe something is wrong with the camera's going idle/wake up function?</p>

<p>Did you do any firmware upgrade prior to this?</p>

<p>I find it hard to believe that something is wrong with the CF card. They can be used for years of extensive shooting, and they keep delivering. At least those of well known brands.</p>

I don't know Ann, I've had a couple of

cards go bad in the middle of an

assignment. Two went bad within a

couple of days after maybe a year of

service while two others purchased at

the same time are rocking right along.

I've always considered the card as the

weak link for no particular reason even

though I have several that are 3 or

more years old and work every time.

 

Rick H.

<p>Rick, I don't know what cards you have, but there have been some problems with counterfeit SanDisk CF cards out there from third-party sources like eBay...</p>

<p>The card was last formatted last week, normal conditions, no problems and I had shot with it since as I mentioned. I have two 40D's and so far (knock on wood) there has been no problem 'waking' them up. Also Ann, the last firmware update for the 40D was some time last year or so, ergo it is supposed to be good. </p>

<p>I agree, CF cards should be good for year upon year of faithful service however the key word to that is <em>should</em>. My experience has been similar to Ricks wherein I had one card glitch within 6 months.</p>

<p>"Matt, you seem to know allot more about the CF file structure than I do"<br>

<br>

It's just the old windows FAT32 file system, there's tons of information about it available on the web, for those who are curious.<br>

<br>

"I find it hard to believe that something is wrong with the CF card."<br>

<br />They do fail, unfortunately often at crucial times. Last time it happened to me was when I photographed a friend's beautiful but terminally ill long-haired white cat for her. Card died, photos lost, then ... cat died. Oops. Major bummer.<br>

<br>

Cards are cheap, I'd buy a new one, and see if the failure persists. If not, I'd toss the old one.<br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I had one card glitch within 6 months</p>

</blockquote>

<p>With the same camera or the other 40D?<br>

<br /> You used this CF card: <strong>Lexar Pro 400x</strong>, 8GB CF (UDMA)<br /> <br /> I would check what the manual says about card compatibility. Maybe this card is too new and too fast for the 40D to handle properly. Or you could check it out with Canon.</p>

<p>According to friend of mine who works in the electronics industry, a memory card (or any sort of flash memory) should last about 100,000 read/write cycles. But, here's the catch, that based on probabilities. They can fail far sooner or far later. He says it just as likely to fail in 1 year as it is to last 10.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Maybe this card is too new and too fast for the 40D to handle properly</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

There is no such thing as "too fast." UDMA cards are completely backwards-compatible and cannot be "too fast" for a camera. There could be other problems but it will never be "too fast." This is easy to learn about in about thirty seconds on the web.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>With the same camera or the other 40D?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Different card, different camera Ann. I did check the compatibility prior to purchase and saw no warnings that there would be a problem (and it has been my go-to brand for the bulk of my cards over the last 3 years). The 400x is far from the cutting edge in UDMA so I'm not demanding much from it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>just as likely to fail in 1 year as it is to last 10</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Wow. Pinpoint reliability ;)</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p> here's the catch, that based on probabilities. They can fail far sooner or far later. He says it just as likely to fail in 1 year as it is to last 10</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

There is no understanding of probability in that statement. It's dead wrong without actual sample data and distributions.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>UDMA cards are completely backwards-compatible and cannot be "too fast" for a camera.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I find that statement hard to believe, Jeff.</p>

<p>Do you have a link that confirms that there will be no compatiblity issues for any cameras when using a UDMA CF card?</p>

 

That's part of the UDMA standard, Ann.

They'll dumb down for older hosts, and

give up some performance. The host

device will have no problem even if it

can't exploit all of the UDMA card's

features. As Jeff says, that info is a

mouse click away.

 

I've had very good luck with cards of all

types, and out of hundreds in different

roles, did have one CF card fail about a

year into its life. It happens sometimes.

<blockquote>

<p>I find that statement hard to believe, Jeff.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

Well go do the research on the way things operate. You can start with the UDMA standard that Matt recommends. I know it's easier to stick one's head in the sand than to spend time understanding the technical details but try to take the time to do it before spouting nonsense. </p>

<p>Where is the link?</p>

<p>Is your browser missing google? Since it appears to be, here are the relevant standards:</p>

<p>http://www.t13.org/documents/UploadedDocuments/project/d1321r3-ATA-ATAPI-5.pdf</p>

<p>http://hddguru.com/download/documentation/ATA-ATAPI-standard-6/ATA-ATAPI-6.pdf</p>

<p>I don't have a pdf reader on this computer.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Where is the link?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Where's the initiative, the genuine curiosity, and the manners? Come on, now, Ann. Nobody has the energy to be pulling some sort of UDMA Standard practical joke on you, right? Yeesh. <br /><br />Just Google this phrase:<br /><br /><em>udma card backwards compatible</em><br /><br />so that you can see not only links to various white papers/docs from both card and host device manufacturers, but also lots of general discussion on the subject. After an exhaustive review of all that, you'll see that you already got succinct, correct information directly above in this thread. No tricks, nothing suspicious, nothing "hard to believe." The people who created the standard had a strong interest in not pissing off millions of end users, so the standard incorporates legacy host compatibility, full stop. And the people providing that info here have a vested interest in laying out those simple facts in plain language, as already done.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I don't have a pdf reader on this computer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

Then get one.</p>

<p>Never mind. What a lot of fuss guys can make....</p>

<p>"What a lot of fuss guys can make...."<br>

<br>

You're the one making a statement equivalent to saying the earth is flat. Being female doesn't get you off the hook for unfounded statements of personal incredulity in response to someone knowledgeable posting a simple fact.<br>

<br>

Seems to be a pattern with you, followed by pulling out the "guys" card. I know technically educated women who would be far harsher, because they've spent their professional careers trying to fight the stereotyped image of women that you're reinforcing here ...<br>

</p>