D800 left focus problem, still

<p>I bought a new D800E from a major, well-known camera store in New York just before the holidays. I tested it out (with my 24-70/2.8G lens) and discovered it suffered from the left focus issue. I returned it and it was replaced, no questions asked (the store paid the return shipping; customer service was great). I've just discovered that the second copy also suffers from the problem. The amount of de-focus, when the left sensors are used, is easily seen in the test images, even with only minor magnification. <br /> The serial numbers of the two copies are within 50 of each other, and both are 30103XX.<br /> How many copies do I need to go through before I get a good one? (rhetorical question) I am inclined to try one more copy. If it works, great. If it fails, I'll just get another D700, a camera I have greatly enjoyed; I am in need of a second body for my work. I would have expected that the problematic D800/E copies would have by now been filtered out of the supply chain, but I guess it's impossible to know what batches are impacted. Perhaps both of my copies, even though purchased in the last few weeks, were out of an early-on manufacturing run and they then sat in a holding place for some months; who knows?I realize I could just keep this copy and send it to Nikon service for repair. But, for a camera costing $3,000+ (US), I feel I should not have to go that route. It should work, and I prefer to not have it opened up on the operating table. I'd welcome any thoughts or suggestions. Shall I hope that my third try is charmed (good luck)?<br>

many thanks, Bill</p>

<blockquote>

<p>How many copies do I need to go through before I get a good one?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Only you can answer that question when you get a good one. And only Nikon has the statistics about what percentage of D800 have the left AF issue. Most estimates I have read seem to suggest that maybe 20% have that problem, but I would take that 20% with a small grain of salt. In particular, it has been 10 months since Nikon started shipping the D800. Any glitches in production should have been fixed a long time ago; otherwise, all these returns are going to cost Nikon a lot of money.</p>

<p>However, if the chance of getting one defective D800 is 20% (1/5), two defective ones in a row is 1/25 or 4%, three in a row is 1/125 or < 1% ...</p>

<p>In my case, I got a D800 test sample last March and it was perfect. I bought a D800E in June and it is also perfect. But a sample set of 2 is statistically meaningless.</p>

<p>P.S. If you get two and certainly three defective D800E in a row, may I suggest that you get another experienced photographer check out your new camera, just to confirm your findings?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I realize I could just keep this copy and send it to Nikon service for repair. But, for a camera costing $3,000+ (US), I feel I should not have to go that route.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>While I can understand the sentiment (even though the price doesn't matter, more the fact that it's new), it would most likely just solve the issue. Especially if you can afford to be without a camera for a bit.<br>

Shun's calculation on the likelihood makes sense, but there might be a catch - it seems mainly the first batches were affected, and your store seems to have those on stock.... So, if you really do not want to use repair, I would ask the store if they can please consign you a D800 from a new shipment, and not from their current stock, and ask them to notify you when to come and make the switch.</p>

<p>(+1 on Shun's P.S.)</p>

<p>Discussion about the D800 left AF issue started to appear in late March to early April last year (2012). By the time I ordered my D800E in mid April, I was well aware of the potential issue. It took my local store (in California) almost two full months to get me one, which I received in mid June. My serial number is 3002nnn.</p>

<p>Given that the D800 shortage lasted till June/July last year and the shortage for the E lasted even a little longer, I really don't think any store still has any "early" D800E around, as they were selling them as fast as they could. Assuming that 80% of all D800/D800E have no AF issue, clearly Nikon knows how to make perfect ones. I would like to think that the cause of this left AF issue was fixed by the summer or at least fall in 2012.</p>

<p>The problem with this left AF issue is that it seems to be difficult to pin point. I have seen a few very experienced photographers on this forum; they kept going back and forth reporting that their D800 was free of AF issues, and then it had problems, and then it was actually OK, and it was actually not OK .... So even though you may have been using SLRs for years, it doesn't hurt to ask something else to check out your D800E.</p>

<p>Since the rest of us have no physical access to your camera, there is not much we can do to help.</p>

<p>Shun, <br>

I ended up checking if the left is as good as right :)<br>

My feeling is that the center point is the sharpest, followed by right and then the left. Left most point on my camera is not exactly fuzzy or anything, but it is a bit soft compared to the center point. I suppose it is the way it is supposed to be...<br>

Not being fussy about it, don't care much...i think if its only the outer most left sensors, then maybe it is a good idea to stick to D21 or something so that you don't even use them...<br>

I am not even one bit concerned about this though...</p>

<p>On the Multi-CAM 3500 AF module (on the D3, D4, D300, D700, and D800 and their variations), the center three columns of 5 AF points (for a total of 15) are cross type, so naturally they are the most accurate and perform best under dim light and low contrast. The remaining 36 line type AF points don't work as well.</p>

<p>As far as I know, Nikon can tune each one of the 51 AF points individually. Therefore, if there are issues, they should be able to recaliberate it. In reality, there are some reports that a few D800 have gone back to Nikon several times to get this issue fixed.</p>

<p>Hi to the OP. Did you get it fixed or what? I had 3 bodes all with the issue and the 3rd one Nikon UK had two goes of sorting it and both times made a right royal mess of it - ie they made it worse in every other AF pont. I returned it and haven't bought another since. That was in December. I was really really disappointed with my Nikon experience having been a Canon user for a while before. As it is I'm very likely to go back to Canon on my next camera purchase, but it won't be for a few months yet.</p>

<p>William</p>

<p>Bit of an old thread, but I think if I got one that seemed to have a focus problem I'd send it in. You'd end up with a camera that's been professionally calibrated and triple-checked, probably better than normal factory spec.</p>

<p>My D800 has this problem but I have delayed getting it fixed because I have read that Nikon was having problems performing repairs. Typically, to make the left sensor better, the center sensor was made worse. Does anyone on this forum know if Nikon Hollywood is capable of performing the repair properly?</p>

<p>If my experience is anything to go by they don't have an answer. They might now but as they repeatedly claimed to have fixed mine when it clearly was faulty, we never will know if or when this issue has been or will be resolved. Shame.<br>

I'd not recommend sending one for repair. There are lts of reports of repairs going wrong or doing nothing all over the internet.<br>

William</p>

<p>My reply most likely won't be useful to OP, but maybe it would help someone else.</p>

<p>I got my first D800 in late May 2012. Didn't know about the focusing issue, was traveling and finally did some testing in September only to find my unit suffering from the issue. Sent it in for 'repairs' 3 times, with each time making the camera worse and worse. Finally managed to get ahold of a customer service manager for my country and at first was told that my samples and testing was inconclusive. Eventually they did test my camera and right away told me that they will replace it. So I got a replacement late January 2013 - it took about 3 months to get that issue resolved with a lot of persistence on my part.</p>

<p>After I got the new unit I went for a trip and then was away from the camera to do any testing or check the pictures. Came back, checked out the pictures from my trip and realized that this copy also misfocuses (so that's 2 out of 2 bodies so far). Just did actual testing - my center sensor is decent, my left and right are quite bad - did this with 3 lenses - 50mm 1.8, 50mm 1.4, 24mm 1.4. Didn't bother with 70-200@2.8 even though my original camera exhibited the issue even with that lens. I have also tried to use FoCal to see if I can fine tune the lenses but the values for these 3 sensors were very different from one another to compromise.</p>

<p>So my advice would be - if you get a bad copy, don't bother sending it in for a check/fix. Either replace or return and get a different camera. Unlike some people who say that your camera will be better than from the factory and 'triple checked', my experience shows that the camera comes back in a worse condition. I believe that focusing is an integral part of a camera, and a semi-pro camera for $3K should be able to focus in a daylight on a clear target (and I'm not even talking about 'real life' shots in which I get fuzzy portraits over and over again).</p>

<p>Based on my experience and seeing that people still get the issue I wonder if it is at all possible that this new focusing system is reliable. Doesn't seem all that good to me so far.</p>

<p>I guess I have the record. Many have gone through 2 or 4 bodies of Nikon D800E without finding one without the AF left focusing problem. I have gone through 7 so far and next week will receive the 8. I will test it and I am almost sure it will be defective too. That will be my last. I got no more time to waste with Nikon. It is a shame.</p>

<p>That's ridiculous. Are you buying these all from one buyer who only ever got one shipment in or something? I'm sure that Nikon hasn't shipped any with the problem in the last 6 months.</p>

<p>Andy, take it easy. That is Carlos Espinoza's very first post to photo.net forums.</p>

<p>Since a little more than a year ago, I have used extensively four brand new out of the box Nikon DSLRs with the Multi-CAM 3500 AF module:</p>

<ul>

<li>A D800 test sample</li>

<li>My own D800E</li>

<li>A D7100 test sample</li>

<li>My own D7100</li>

</ul>

<p>Additionally, I used a D600 with the Multi-CAM 4800 for my review.</p>

<p>In each case, I have used the camera for at least a month with over 1000 captures. I have yet to run into one DSLR that has any AF issue.</p>

<p>Sorry, that did come out wrong.</p>

<p>No worries guys, I am not taking personal offense for any comments. Honestly, I agree. It sounds just ridiculous but it is true. I bought them from different dealers in a period of 12 months. I tested the cameras under controlled conditions and using different targets and fast lenses along with my other Nikon bodies (D300, D3s). In every test I conducted, my other Nikons came out with flying colors. The D800E always failed with the left point focus whereas the center and right points were sharp and match the LV test. In each case I called Nikon in Melville only to hear stupid excuses like "we have never had any D800E return so far" or "we never heard any focusing issue with the D800E". In each case I was given the option to send the camera in for calibration absorbing myself the cost of shipping the camera to Melville. I never opted for that option because to me, purchasing a 3.000 camera just to send it in for adjustment paying shipping charges is inexcusable. Why should I pay for Nikon's fault?. I am not talking about one camera, I am talking about 7 cameras. By the way, I am not a novice. I started out with the Canon AE1 in the early 80's if anyone here knows that old model. So I am not a newbie. Andy, your assumption that Nikon has not shipped any faulty D800 should be true, but I thing that what happens is that most dealers (IMO) are stuck with a lot of old bodies. The serial numbers I tried are in the range of 30120xx. Some people are talking about bodies in the range of 305xxxx, I have never seen any like this in NY. In addition of testing the bodies I described, I have visited dealers and I have never seen numbers other than the 301. If anyone of you can point a dealer that sells cameras in this serial number (305), please share it with me.</p>

<p>One thing that kind of support my assumption that dealers are stuck with old bodies is the fact that only Adorama and B&H are now giving away free stuff with the D800E. I may be wrong but I cannot help to think about it.</p>

<p>What I read was that you really want one that's later than 3055000, but I don't know if that's correct (the source I saw it at has a dodgy history when it comes to anything related to Nikon production) so take some grains of salt with it. I have a D800 with a 302xxxx sn that's perfect, but I bought it as a refurb so I can't say it didn't have a problem that got caught and corrected.</p>

<p>(Heck, the initial shutter count being what it was, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if it had initially had the problem, failed the testing, been fixed, and then sold as a refurb because it had been pulled from the line. My understanding is any camera that gets pulled from the normal production line and is later sold will be a refurb.)</p>

<p>Are you on Long Island? Can you go into Manhattan and buy one in person from one of the big stores, and not leave with it until you try it?</p>

<p>Interesting to read these new posts by Carlos. Sorry to hear about your experience, but I am not surprised. I have had issues with my D800 that I got last May. I didn't know about the focusing issue until the fall and then I had sent my camera in 4 times, getting it back worse every time. Eventually Nikon offered to replace with a brand new unit. As a replacement I got a D800E, which also came faulty. Direct from Nikon, mind you, and not any retailer who could be stuck with old stock. That was in late February. The camera had issues with focusing, so I had to send it back in. I got it few weeks later but was leaving the country so did a very basic test with a single lens that exposed the issue before - the focusing seemed to be better. I am back now and am going to test the camera thoroughly with few lenses, but I don't hold my breath. In general this camera seems to be missing focus A LOT, which is not acceptable in my mind, since focusing is sort of an essential part of a camera.<br>

<br />All in all - extremely disappointed with Nikon. And not for the faulty design (I'm sure it's something very serious since they cannot seem to resolve it), but for the way they handle (or don't handle at all!) the situation. They behave like a misbehaving 8 year old. Very upsetting.</p>

<p>After my first posting here I tried 2 more D800E. They had the same problem. That makes a total of 9 bodies. I was reluctant to try any more cameras but the dealer where I always purchase my photo stuff, asked me to try one more time. Long story short. I gave up on the D800E. So in the end I tried the D7100. My god!, what a difference!. What a sharp little camera that is! None of my lenses need AF fine tuning. Excellent noise control!. And best of all for a fraction of the price I was willing to pay for the D800E. Sure, it does not compare to the build of my D300 nor it has the pro level I always want. It also lacks some of the features of the D4, and D800E, but honestly, after the nightmare I went through with the D800E. I don't care!! I don't care about the limited buffer and the consumer build of this one. In the end, image quality is what we always aim for. This is a keeper at the first try and I will enjoy it until the D400 is released or until the D800E is finally fixed. Thanks for your understanding and comments to my postings.</p>

<p>It's a shame but I'm not surprised. I had 3 all the same before I decided this camera wasn't for me, and I know of one pro who had tried several most, but not all of which had the issue. He told me that he'd since tried ( not bought ) several bodies and the majority had this problem or some other AF issue. </p>

<p>I'm actually surprised that so many people seem happy with theirs and that Nikon can't make the problem go away for the rest of us.</p>

<p>This is all pretty bizarre. I have one and I've tried a few others and never been able to find a problem, some other people can't find one that doesn't have it.</p>

<p>I guess I must have good D800 luck. For $100 plus transportation and per diem I will accompany any of you guys to a store and pick out a D800.</p>

<p>I don't think anybody outside of Nikon has accurate statistics about what percentage of D800/D800E has this left AF problem, but even some of Nikon's strongest critics on this particular issue such as Thom Hogan, Bjron Rorslett, etc. are talking about maybe 20% have problems. And that was last year. I am quite sure that Nikon has finally figured out the issue or it would be costing them a lot of money fixing many many D800 under warranty over a long period of time.</p>

<p>For example, the chance of getting four defective ones in a row would be: 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.0016 or 0.16%</p>

<p>You can assume a higher 30% rate and do that math yourself. But in my case, I only used two and both are fine. I even discussed this topic in photo.net's D800 review: http://www.photo.net/reviews/nikon-d800-review<br>

It was already a hot topic on the web when I ordered my D800E in mid April, 2012. The D800E was in extreme short supply back then and it took my local store 2 months to get me one. When I finally got my D800E in mid June, 2012, I tested its AF like crazy. I have been using that camera for a full year now. The main issue I have with it are a few corrupted RAW files; fortunately, dual memory cards save the day.</p>

<p>I just want to clarify Andy's posting. He seems to talk about the D800, not the D800E. I am talking about the D800E. After talking to Adorama, B&H and 17 Street Photo sales reps. They helped me understand that the issue, although never publicly acknowleged by Nikon has been addressed. However when it comes to the D800E, due to the fact that in comparison the number of D800E produced is very small compared to the D800, the stock currently in the stores has the issue and will be slowly phased out as more photographers buy the camera and the issue is finally fixed. It makes sense. No wonder after so many bodies I tried, I never saw anything above 301xxxx.</p>

<p>Sorry, I thought we were talking about both, from the thread title. If your experience is limited to D800E's, this is more understandable and I can see where it would get annoying fast. For all I know stores still have D800Es in the back room that they received a year ago, and you can't go by the "D800's with SN at least..." because the D800E SNs don't line up. Maybe the only workaround, short of waiting for the current batch to sell out and Nikon to replenish the stock, is to get one that has the problem and demand that Nikon fix it?</p>