D70: need better low light AF+ IQ

<p>Hi all,<br>

Have a D70 since '04 and lately set off more seriously with buying some primes (20, 50, 85), SB600, tripod and taking fotoclass.<br>

Discovering my shooting style bit by bit I start finding myself restricted by the slow/hunting/less accurate AF of my camera in certain low light situations where I have little/ no control over the light or can't/don't want to use flash (i.e. bandgigs in small pubs, candids of kids indoors, or candids at social events like parties at home), as well as the low image quality at ISO1600 compared to base ISO in good light (still love the camera for that).<br>

So I decided to save up for a D700. Not because I absolutely NEED FF, but because I WANT and am willing to pay for that beautiful camera and feel sure it will bring me joy for the next 5 to 10 years. So I don't want to debate that here. But unfortunately it looks that I will not be able to get the money as soon as I hoped (might take another year).<br>

So now I'm back to contemplating a cheaper DX option like the D90 or D300s. As a solution until I can buy the D700, or who knows I will like them so good that I don't feel the need for the D700 anymore. But for now I want better AF-performance and image quality at ISO 1600 or higher.<br>

With fast lenses, handheld in low light, with somewhat moving subjects will the AF of the D90 be a big step up from the D70 or do I need the state of the art AF of the D300s?<br>

And would the IQ of a D90/D300s at ISO1600 be good, say as goodish as ISO400 with the D70?<br>

Thanx for your replies!</p>

 

<p>With 2.8 and better lenses I could AF on a D300 till it was absolutely necessary to use the flash.<br>

This one is made with a little fill in flash at 2000 iso it is 50% of the original seize.<br>

<a href="http://82.176.238.130/BF/BF09/RotR%20FredX%202009%20Friday/FJE/FJE%2003.jpg">http://82.176.238.130/BF/BF09/RotR%20FredX%202009%20Friday/FJE/FJE%2003.jpg</a></p>

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<p><br /> And would the IQ of a D90/D300s at ISO1600 be good, say as goodish as ISO400 with the D70?</p>

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<p>I would say, roughly, that d70 ISO 400 = d90 ISO 800 = d700 ISO 1600.</p>

<p>Waiting for a 700 might be a good idea. Looks like it might come with the 24mp sensor in a soon and so be an even more increadable thing.<br>

I am using my D70 more because the D300 is just too heavy to carry around. It really can still do great work. I used my D70s with my 16-85 VR lens for non critical shooting on a job recently and it ended up shooting 60% of the shots - tables, dancing, etc. My 300 had the 105 VR doing portraits etc.<br>

My suggesting for now is look at the D90. It is the same camera as the D70 with a lot of improvements. Then when you got the cash get the D700s or D800 when they come out.</p>

<p>Ray, I say this as someone having both the D70 and D300 (both non "s" versions). The D300, up to ISO 800 to 1600, can be used without any hesitation. I personally like ISO 1600 better than the D70's ISO 400, simply because the characteristics of the noise are far better on the D300, in that chroma noise is far less on the D300 and it cleans up better than the D70 images with noise reduction software. The D300's AF is definitely a step up from the D90, otherwise, I too would have gotten the D90 over the D300 to replace my D70. In addition, the D300's built in motor for non-AF-S lenses is more powerful. However, you need to consider what you need the more capable AF for. If you are shooting low-speed, low-contrast subjects in low light, which indoor people shots for the most part are, you might be better served by lenses with bigger max-aperture than by the D300 over D90.</p>

<p>Your lenses will work very differently on a D700 than on your D70 due to the different formats. Hopefully that is what you want.</p>

<p>But accurate AF is far more important than format or more pixels. 24M of out-of-focus pixels is pretty much meaningless. I think you are better off getting something like a D300 or D300S. Used D300 bodies in good condition should be around $1000 in these days.</p>

<p>the D90 will surely answer your needs. i upgraded from a D200/D70s combo to two D90s as my combo for work.</p>

<p>but in line with shun's post re: prices of used D300, you might want to consider that.brand new D90 body will cost somewhere around $800. for $200 plus more you can get a used D300, i think.</p>

<p>I shoot with a D300 all the time at 2400 + iso and have no problems - I apply a quick noise reduction flilter in post and the images are fine. The key is to get the exposure right - even slightly under exposued images will magnify the noise.</p>

<p>D300 is definitely a cheaper alternative - and if you don't require full frame - may be the way to go.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>i'd also consider getting a d5000 which is almost as good for low-light work as a d300/d90 (same sensor). pair that with a sigma 30/1.4 or a nikon 35/1.8 and you have an effective, compact high ISO kit for not too much extra dough. should you decide to sell down the line, both of those lenses will hold most of their value (reason i didnt recommend the 35/2 is a) its an older, pre-digital design and more prone to flare; b) f/2 sometimes isnt fast enough for low-light work and the 35 doest have a rep for being terribly sharp wide-open; and c) you wont need the 35/2 until you have a d700).</p>

<p>of course, a d90 will AF with non AF-S/HSM primes, so that might be a consideration. and for no-flash event photography, the d300's superior AF is nice to have. but if you're trying to save for a d700 and just need a stopgap, the d5000 is easier on the pocketbook.</p>

<p>last night i shot an event using the d300 and sigma 30 at ISOs ranging from 800-2500. results were pretty good, even with narrow DoF...</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p>The IQ of the D90 and the D300 is about the same. I have a D90 and used to use a D50 which was similar to the D70 in IQ and noise (I believe the D50 was a little better in noise control than the D70). The noise control of the D90 is far better than that of the D50 especially at the higher ISO's. The noise control of the D300 is no better than the D90. The advantage of the D300 would be in focusing, although the D90 focuses very fast. On the other hand, the D90 saves a lot of money that you could put toward a future camera. It's also closer in size, weight, and feel to the D70 which you like and are used to.</p>

<p>I would try the D90 and if the focusing meets your needs, I would get it since the IQ and noise control are similar for the D90 and D300.</p>

<p>First, thank you all for the responses. I feel I don't have to worry about noise/low light IQ with either a D90 or a D300s. When it comes down to price a new D90 (just over 800USD) is half that of a new D300s here in the Netherlands, so that's tempting.<br /> But I'm still wondering what the noticable difference in AF performance would be. Can anyone explain the differences between the multiCAM1000 vs 3500 systems in reality? What's with cross-type/line type AF points and how would that work out i.e. for shooting bands in small pubs?<br /> Until now with my D70 I only use a single AF-point (centre) and try to aim for the eyes and then recompose...which of course is difficult with slow shutterspeeds... How are the multiCAM1000/3500 systems better in that respect or should I better make use of their other AF modes, using more AF points?</p>

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<p>What's with cross-type/line type AF points and how would that work out i.e. for shooting bands in small pubs?</p>

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<p>actually, the differences are fairly significant. i also have a d80 which has a CAM1000 AF system. besides having less AF points and cross-sensors, it's simply not as sophisticated in terms of tracking, which helps when panning to catch moving subjects. this really comes into play when using apertures smaller than 2.8 at shutter speeds under 1/100s (which you sometimes have to do to keep the ISO reasonable)</p>

<p>however, if you are shooting pub shots of live bands which dont do an excessive amount of movement onstage, you might be fine with the d90 and your fast primes. ultimately it comes down to technique and learning how to utilize the best settings for your shooting environment. the more you shoot in that environment, the more second nature it becomes.</p><div></div>

<p>With Noise Ninja, the D70 does very nicely at 1600 ISO.</p>