Copyright music on wedding websites

I've been reading posts in this forum on a daily basis for about 6 months

now. I really enjoy seeing your work displayed. However, I have noticed that

some wedding sites have copyright music as part of the slideshows or as a

background. Do you get licenses to use the music? If not, do any of you

worry about copyright infringement? Having dealt with commercial music in

video productions, I really recommend using caution when advertising your

sites with unlicensed music. I would suggest that you purchase a license with

music libraries. There are many out there at reasonable prices. Your

thoughts.

Theft is theft. There is no grey area. When someone "steals" one of our images it is theft. When photographers place copyrighted music without permission on their websites, it is also theft. No excuses - there are plenty of sites to buy royalty-free music.

Look at myspace - I don't think it is theft it is promotion for the artist. I saw a song on a famous photogs site. I liked it so much I bought it on I tunes. I would think an artist would be happy to have the exposure, it is like the radio. I realize that on my space it is not selling something and on a photographers site it might help provide emotion for a sale or booking but I still see it the same way as myspace - it promotes the artist more than anything. They can't download the song for free off your site and you had to buy it to upload on your site anyway. I may be wrong but I have never heard of anyone being hassled over this.

I was wondering if anyone was familiar with classical music. Are pieces from the likes of Vivaldi, Mendelssohn and the like part of the public domain or are there copyright issues with them as well? We really seem to be limited as far as using music goes... I'm not sure that spending around $60 for a 4 minute royalty free song off the internet that sounds like something I did on my Casiotone back in the mid '80's makes for a great presentation. Nor do I think spending thousands of dollars to purchase the right to play a recent song once makes much sense either. My understanding, from what I've read on previous posts on this topic, is that it's nearly impossible to get in touch with the powers that be anyway. Is there quality music out there at a reasonable price that anyone is familiar with?

<i>I would think an artist would be happy to have the exposure, it is like the radio.</i><p>

Radio stations pay licensing fees for the music they play.

Most people don't know the law. I also come across a lot of music online that I'm sure the lawyers would love to listen to ... and then sue.

 

artists like radio exposure, but they like $$ just as much.

 

I think that some photographer's groups are trying to arrange a big deal with music labels to reach some fee per year for use of their artists' music. google it and find out. I think that I read it at the Digital Wedding Forum.

If you paid for the license, you should not have a problem. However, if you don't pay for a license, once you start using music for personal financial gain in a business type venture, you are infringing on the copyright's terms. It doesn't matter whether or not it's just being used a background piece to bring out the emotion. Bottom line is that you are using it as a tool to promote your business without the artist's permission. The key word is "permission".

 

Here's a classic example: wedding videos and slide shows that are given to the bride and groom as part of the wedding package. Many times the couple has a favorite song that they want to play under their photos or videos. By producing this video/slideshow and charging a customer for it, you are infringing on the copyright unless you have a license to do so. You cannot profit directly or indirectly from the music. This is so common that many videographer/photographers think that it's OK but in reality, a law is being broken everytime it's being done.

 

The reason I bring this issue up is because I believe that this is a great forum to share knowledge and to learn. There are a lot of misconceptions about how music can be used to promote one's business. I'd rather pay the $50,$100, or whatever it takes than to be sued. Bottom line, copyright laws are clear. It doesn't just protect photogs from having their work stolen, it protects every artist.

Mike is right - radio stations pay. <p>

 

<i>Are pieces from the likes of Vivaldi, Mendelssohn and the like part of the public domain or are there copyright issues with them as well?</i><p>The intellectual property, i.e., the music itself, is public domain. The performances are not. So you could post sheet music and ask people to sing it, but you can't just use someone's performance and claim it is public domain.<p>

 

It always amazes me how many photographers think they should be able to use copyrighted music to advertise their services but object to other people using their images. Either you agree to respect copyright and enforce your own copyright, or you steal from musicians and allow people to use any of your images for whatever you want.<p>

 

By the way, on myspace, a lot of music has been removed for copyright reasons.

Jeff-

I don't think I have the right to use anyone's copyrighted music; as a matter of fact I'm very much opposed to it. I'm simply trying to find out information...

Paul, it was the poster before you who seems to think it's fine to use other people's music without permission. I was responding to your question in the same post and did not mean to imply that you would do that.

Thank you for the clarification, Jeff. This whole process is frustrating, though. I haven't done too much research into royalty free music, which seems to be my (our) only option, but what I have heard sounds terrible. Are you (or anyone else) familiar with any site that has decent music?

One thing you could try is contacting some local musicians (look in the entertainment listings) and see if they would trade music for photos.

Using commercial music on your BUSINESS website is Copyright Infringements. Period. If

the artist or record company wanted to they could come after you, but at least for now,

wedding photographers are probably small fish... although with more and more copyrights

being infringed upon, I wouldn't be surprised if we started hearing about people getting

popped for this... and it would be a LARGE fee to have to pay.<p>

The difference between MySpace is that the large majority of people putting music up

there are not doing it to sell anything. They are personal little 'sites'.... your Photography

website is for for a commercial business where you are selling something... When you buy

a CD or MP3 you are buying it for "personal use only" ... that's it. period. You can't use it

to help sell your services/products or use them in DVD's or slideshows that you sell. Just

like companies can't use copyrighted music in television commercials or movies without

paying a licencing fee for it.<p>

It's pretty clear cut... Just don't steal other people's creative works. <p>

There are plenty of resources for royalty free music. Some sites are even starting to offer

special pricing on contemporay artist's music.

It really grates with me when I view some of the websites on here where you have used

copyrighted music and then the same people make a big deal about the copyright of your

photos being used by your clients in ways you didnt authorise!

 

No names but I've noticed this several times! Websites that play music are just as annoying as

popup adverts, why bother.

Thank you for the input Jeff. There are a few small recording studios here; that sounds like a good place to start. Thank you for your input as well, Ni. Do you have any specific links to the sites you think have decent music? I haven't had much luck...

 

NTBD - I'm not necessarily looking for background music for my site but rather music I can put on clients slideshow DVD's.

Can you give suggestions on websites that offer good prices for royalty free songs. I agree with Paul I need something for dvd's.

www.ibaudio.com

www.musicbaker.com

www.sounddogs.com

www.audiolicense.com

www.freeplaymusic.com

Independent recording studios are a great place to start. There are a MULTITUDE of great songs out there where the artist would love the extra exposure we can give them. The secret is, the artist has to own the copyright, not some label. Labels are expensive to impossible to deal with. The thing DWF was trying to put together fell apart because the recording industry doesn't want to be associated with us wedding photographers, and even though we'd pay, it's not enough for them to care about. Great music is available. Sometimes it's a pain in the butt to get, but I've been surprised at the music I've secured permission for, without paying a dime. Another place to look for independent musicians is local and university concerts, myspace, public radio, music stores (the ones that sell instruments) because they are often in touch with local talent. When you find some music you want to pursue, explain to the artist how you want to use the music, and be sure to promise them full credit on your site and/or slideshow.

One place I really like is stock20.com Each track is $7.00.

If the customer can't download the song, but can only listen to it while they are viewing

your online presentation, how is it different from having mood music playing in your

studio while meeting with clients? Is that illegal too?

 

Just wondering.

 

As for slideshows, if you're making money off of the song, I agree. But...If the DVD/

Slideshow is just for the use of the B&G and they already own the music in the form of a

CD, aren't you just repackaging something they already own? They could listen to the

music on their stereo while watching their slideshow anyway, you're just making it more

convenient.

 

There are services that load people's CD's onto their ipods, if they charge money are they

breaking the law? If not, how is that different?

 

Seems to me it wouldn't be illegal to charge for the service of blending or packaging

things that people already own the rights to enjoy...so that they may enjoy them in a new

and different way.

 

I've tried numerous searches on this, but the results are so diluted/polluted with ads for

royalty-free music that it's hard to find much information about the actual laws.

Hi Regas: It is my understanding that you aren't suppose to even play music in your studio without a license of some sort. There is more info at the PPA about that.

<i>There are services that load people's CD's onto their ipods, if they charge money are they breaking the law? If not, how is that different?</i><p>The purchaser of the music is allowed to make copies for personal use, whether they do it themselves or outsource it. Whoever makes the ipod files cannot do it without the owner's copy.<p><i>I've tried numerous searches on this, but the results are so diluted/polluted with ads for royalty-free music that it's hard to find much information about the actual laws.</i><p>Try the ASCAP, BMI and RIAA sites.<p><i>If the customer can't download the song, but can only listen to it while they are viewing your online presentation, how is it different from having mood music playing in your studio while meeting with clients? Is that illegal too?</i><p>Completely different. There has been no reproduction and distribution in the latter case.<p>

 

BTW, I'm not in favor of the current enforcement of these laws, since most of them benefit the music companies instead of the performers. However, there are a number of changes in the music industry due to digital music and the internet, and that may mean that the artists eventually get what they should, which is something photographers should respect.

Connie,

Thanks, I always wondered about that.

 

Jeff,

 

<I>The purchaser of the music is allowed to make copies for personal use, whether they

do it themselves or outsource it. Whoever makes the ipod files cannot do it without the

owner's copy</I>

 

I was thinking of the instance where the bride and groom hand you a CD of their wedding

music and you add it to the DVD/Slideshow. Or give you the original CD.

 

Obviously if they did not have the right to enjoy the music by purchasing a CD or buying it

online, then providing it to them would be a violation of whichever laws apply.

 

Thanks for the other explanations too.

 

Thanks for the links too. When I looked at the BMI and RIAA sites before, I couldn't find

much information specific to this, but it looks like they've added some things so I'll check

them out again.

Thanks to all for some great links and input; I appreciate it!

 

A big thanks especially to you, Jo, for introducing me to Stock20.com! The music there imo is great! And for just $7 per song... wow!

This guy will give you access to his music...http://ghostnotes.blogspot.com/