john_mccormack Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 An earlier discussion of the new Contax T3 on the Unmoderated Q&A board got zapped after 24 hours (about the same amount of time it took to deplete the T3 inventory at B&H), so I thought I'd try to continue it here. I'd love to hear some comments from users on their initial reactions to the camera, especially lens quality. <p> Does anyone want to start a user/mailing list group elsewhere? http://www.topica.com has a nice interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrevasse Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 I for one would like to hear as much as possible about the T3 so I can determine whether to accidentally back the car over our other compact cameras. Thanks, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_beiser Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 John, <p> Thanks for getting this thread going, I'm really looking forward to comments from the lucky T3 owners. I have had a T2 for 5 years, and will be eager to hear how the new T3 really compares. I'd prefer we keep this thread going for now, rather than start a mailing list (at least for the time being). <p> Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_lopez3 Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 I'll make the same grouchy comment here as I made on the unmoderated Q&A thread that got zapped. <p> For the price, you'd think they could afford to include a hot shoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrevasse Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Michael, it does include contacts for attachment of a flash bracket for a dedicated flash. Given the small size of the T3, it probably will handle better with the flash attached to a bracket rather than to a hotshoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mccormack Posted April 1, 2001 Author Share Posted April 1, 2001 Hoping that I'm not violating any Photo.net rules, I'm posting a copy of Andrew Schank's impressions of the T3 in this Forum, since the review will be zapped after 24 hrs. in the Non-Archived Forum. <p> Contax T3 review <p> Just got my T3 and wanted to try and clear up some questions that were bouncing around a thread last week. Before I start, I should mention I am not that familiar with previous Contax compacts, so I will not be able to compare this camera to them. <p> This is a very compact 35mm camera, about the size of my old Minox 35 or an Olympus Epic. It is also fairly light, unlike the old Rollei 35's which were about the same size but much heavier. It is smaller than the Yashica T4. The camera feels exceptionally well made. The back closes with a nice tight thud. The finder is contrasty, super sharp and very bright and distorion free. Compared to any other point and shoot I've used, it is in another league. Reminds of the finder on my Minolta CLE. It s a dream for me to have any shutter speed indication in the finder on a P&S. Although it is not a full scale including all of the speeds, it sure is nice to know if you are at 1/30 sec or 1/125. <p> Another new feature for me is a distance readout on top of the camera, which can come in handy if your not sure it locked on the right subject. I love the apertures being on a dial instead of some up and down button. I plan to use the camera on A preffered quite a bit. In answer to some questions, the speeds over 1/500 are only available starting with apertures F8 both on program and Aperture preferred. This is an unfortunate limitation, as the high speed would be more useful at the smaller f stops. Another question was about battery life, and the manual says 12 rolls flash 1/2 of the time. <p> There is no way to remotely fire the shutter for tripod use. I quess you could use the 2 sec. self timer. The camera does have a nice metal tripod socket. It has some serious low light speeds that go to 3 minutes. <p> As far as controlls go, the camera is nicely designed. I have used some of the Rollei P&S cameras, and this one is easier to set exposure compensation, a feature I use a lot. The flash settings are straight forward, although the flash itself is no blinding light, it should do OK to 10 to 15 feet with 400 speed film. They do have a rig for using one of the more powerful flashes from the G system, but it seems to me to wreck the compact design of this camera. <p> The ability to change default settings is a dream for any "advanced" point and shooter. I've already told the flash to not go off unless I tell it too! When you turn the camera off and on, it retains the settings you customized- a big complaint many folks have about some other high end P&S. You can also use filters on this camera with an adapter. <p> I am in the process of shooting a roll, and will be checking for vignetting, sharpness, AF accuracy, etc. I'll report my findings in a week or so. If you have any specific questions, post them here in the next 24 hours before this thread gets the axe, and I'll try to answer them. <p> -- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 01:43 P.M. Eastern <p> Answers Forgot to mention 2 more things. One, this camera focuses to 12 inches, which is very close for this type of camera. I kept moving in and in and kept getting a focus confirmation mark. There are clear marks in the finder for close ups, and the camera tells you when it is in "macro" mode. The other thing was about the delay time from when the shutter is pressed to when the image is recorded. On the standard setting, there is still a noticeable delay , but not as bad as a Yashica T4. But you can change the default setting so the camera will move the lens to the focus point when the shutter button is pressed 1/2 down. To take an image then is almost immediate. I just changed my default setting to this position, as it eliminates the lag time if you are trying to get decisive moment expression, etc. <p> -- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 02:18 P.M. Eastern <p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- <p> Thanks Andrew - sounds very promising so far. Can you set the ISO independently, or do you compensate exposure? You already mentioned that the camera, if switched off will retain the settings, but just to confirm, does it retain exposure compensation too when switched off? Thanks for you review - am looking forward to the rest! <p> -- Andreas Carl, March 31, 2001; 07:20 P.M. Eastern <p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- <p> One of the custom functions (number 3)is to hold exposure compensation for 1 frame only, or until the camera is shut off, or until you reset it (independant of camera being shut on and off). <p> -- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 07:34 P.M. Eastern <p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- <p> looking forward to your impression of the lens <p> -- Graham O'Brien, March 31, 2001; 09:11 P.M. Eastern <p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- <p> I have both a Yashica T4 and a Contax T2, so I am looking forward to the T3. The T2 provide aperture priority if you set the lens opening to anything but 2.8. On 2.8, it goes to auto. Has the T3 changed this? Both the T4 and T2 give me great 11X14 prints, and the T3 is supposed to be even better. <p> -- Phil Stiles, March 31, 2001; 11:10 P.M. Eastern <p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- <p> It has a P setting for Program, or you can set it for any aperture you want from f2.8 to f16 and it will try to choose a shuter speed within its range. <p> -- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 11:37 P.M. Eastern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_michel Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 i love my t3!! in my own tests, the t3 lens bettered my leica 35mm summicron asph in the center at f2.8 to f4 (at 5.6 and above, the leica caught up; corner sharpness is better with the leica all the way through -- but not by much!). the mtf info on the new sonnar (looks more like a tessar variant in the cross section to me!!) 35mm f2.8 available on the cosina japan website (info at initial aperture only) confirms higher center sharpness than any other 35mm lens currently available. the custom features make the camera ideal for candid street photography: you can easily preset focus distance AND set lens to extend to that distance and stay there. shutter release is then immediate. i have used hexar rf for about a year, and shutter release on t3 is MUCH quicker (the hexar rf takes way too long to "think" about exposure). also, the camera is very, very quiet. much more quiet than my m6. finally, the camera is the perfect size -- fits in the palm of the hand nicely (and feels very solid -- just the right heft). if you decide to get a t3, IMHO the following accessories are MANDATORY: (1) leather semi-hard case. i use the bottom half only. it protects the camera against shocks and perspiration from your sweaty hand, makes the t3 much easier and more comfortable to grip, camouflages the camera nicely (how long until contax gives us a special edition t3 in black a la the special edition g2?), and allows the use of a proper neck strap (the case has standard strap lugs on either side, the camera permits use of a handstrap or lanyard only). 2. filter adapter/heliopan lt yellow filter in 30.5/metal contax or rubber heliopan shade. a camera that doesn't accept filters really can't be considered a serious photo tool IMHO. contax makes provision for filters via a bayonet type adapter. this works well. i keep a heliopan MC lt yellow filter mounted all the time (i shoot only t400cn with the camera). the screw in shade gave a nice increase in contrast performance, even in conditions where you wouldn't necessarily worry about flare. the use of a filter and shade also give the lens a little more protection than that afforded by the way coo, but somewhat flimsy "venetian blinds" built into the camera. i should add that the instruction manual says that simultaneous use of filter and shade will cause vignetting. i have shot many rolls with a filter and shade without any problem. as mentioned, however, i use the heiopan filters, not the contax brand (the contax filters do not appear to be MC). the latter may have a thicker mount. there are too many great features on this camera to mention. suffice it to say, the custom settings allow almost unlimited versatility. don't overlook the fact that the flash default settings are adjustable (this is accomplished separately from the custon settings). will my m6/28mm ever see action again. i just don't know. for now, all i carry is the t3 around town, and a t3/rollei or t3/bessa ii combo when i travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mccormack Posted May 7, 2001 Author Share Posted May 7, 2001 FYI - There will be a Contax Day at B&H Photo in New York city on Wednesday, May 9, 2001. A Contax rep. will be on hand in the store and I believe there will be special pricing available for Contax equipment for phone and email buyers as well as walk-ins. Check with B&H for details and times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonard_d._schloff Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Have had my T3 for only a short time. Pictures so far look good, but have not projected any (use slides only). I enjoy the flexibility and features mentioned in the preceeding notes. <p> My only negative, so far, is the bright lines (or corners) for framing the image. The corner in the upper right is frequently difficult to see and takes some searching. The bright line for closeups is often the first thing my eye sees also. I actually emailed Contax (sending it attention Blake Edwards). Another person replied, but discussed the lines not appearing at all and suggested sending it in.. With this in mind, I sent the camera to Contax. It came back very quickly, but no specific comment. I think nothing has changed. Does anyone else find the bright lines a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajames Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 The framing lines have a tendancy to fade from view if I haven't centered my eye properly; this provides useful feedback, IMO. The lines also fade from view if they are superimposed over a bright object; I live with it. <p> I too have shot only slides to date. I'm curious about your exposure accuracy in bright outdoor light. I have had numerous overexposed frames, but I have yet to test it in a rigorous fashion - I might have overcompensated in some of these situations. I have heard from another user who c/o overexposure with slides in unshaded sunlight. Until I spend the time to experiment I shouldn't comment further. <p> Overall I am very pleased with the camera. It is soooo compact that I never hesitate to take it along. The lens is very capable; the classic Contax/Zeiss color rendetion and contrast is there, as is the sharpness that we all expected from the marketing hype. I just received some shots from the summit of St. Helens in which I see a bit of fall off (~1/3 of a stop or less). <p> I've considered buying the case and adapter for hood and filters but the slim design of the case that is included with the camera is awfully nice. Flare has not been a problem so far, and for me, fiddling with filter on this camera defeats the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_zelyony1 Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 To Leonard: I do not own one, but saw at least 4 of them ( at B&H, J&R, Adorama ) and all of them had the same problem with upper right corner, so I do not think it's a sample variation. This worries me a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_michel Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 as for over-exposure, i found that i was using way too much compensation in most situations. the meter appears to be more center weighted than the t2 and may other p&s cameras i have used. the pattern seems (through experimentation) very much like the one in my m6 ttl (which itself has more center weighting than the m6 "classic"). as for the filter and shade, they don't change the profile of the camera much, offer good physical protection, guard against flare (you only see it in extreme cases; flare generally just robs apparent sharpness by reducing overall microcontrast -- ALWAYS USE A SHADE WITH ANY HIGH QUALITY LENS imho), offer nice creative potential (in the case of filters -- heliopan makes a full range in 30.5), and look SUPER COOL! finally, as for the leather semi-hard case, it is much better than the pouch. it has proper strap lugs for carrying the camera around the neck, protects it while allowing you to keep it at the ready (i only use the base of the case), and keeps sweat off the camera if you carry it in your palm for candid street shots. i love this little camera. my only complaint is that they don't make it in a 28mm (or better still 24mm or 21mm) version. i also wish they had set it up so that when the AFL button is used (especially when the camera is programmed so that the AFL button sets exposure as well), you could pre-extend the lens without touching the button (as you can in MF mode). oh well, a trifling matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_michel Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 almost forgot: what's all this jibber-jabber about the no-see-um bright lines????? in the first place, the bright lines are so close to the edge of the finder as to be well nigh irrelevant. second, the bright lines (as in all cameras that use them) do not actually delineate the edge of the actual ultimate image. they encompass probably 85% of the image. you should not be using them as true framelines for careful composition. finally, since the camera (for obvious reasons) only has one set of brightlines, any user will learn in a short time how to frame an image without resort to the bright lines in any event. in point of fact, the hard glass finder in the t3 is AMAZINGLY good considering the cost of the camera. it is VERY bright and distortion free. the fact that it has any bright lines at all is just icing on the cake considering the price of the camera. do you expect leica quality for one-fifth the cost of an m6 & summicron combo? the display in the finder also is amazingly good -- at any price. what is all this "it worries me a lot" stuff. who could possibly complain about what contax has provided for a little more than six-hundred bucks? that's half the cost of a decent rangefinder lens (and no leica lens focuses to ten inches like the t3 "sonnar"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mccormack Posted May 17, 2001 Author Share Posted May 17, 2001 Roger, <p> Thanks for your insightful comments on the T3. This thread is getting more informative as time and usage increase. <p> I agree with your point about the bright lines. Seems to be non-issue with this camera that only has a field of view of 85%. <p> I've read of one other (experienced) Contax user complaining that his T3 over exposed. Don't know whether he sent it in for repair or not. <p> Minor point: close focusing distance is stated to be .35m (13.8 inches) according to http://www.kyocera.co.jp/news/2001/0102/0001-e.asp This is about the same as the GR1 close focusing and MUCH better than the Minilux. <p> Care to comment on the T3s optical quality compared to your Leica glass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_zelyony1 Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Well, for $700( a used Nikon 8008+35/f2+50/f1.8+flash) I'd like to be confident that what I see is what I get. Even if the bright frame covers only 90% (not 85%) of the frame, that is what gets printed in the lab, unless you custom order full frame prints, and that's what seen in the frame mounted slide. For almost half of that price Ricoh GR1 sports electronically controlled bright frame which has three preset frame settings for different distances and dispays 9 shutter speeds in 1/2 stops. For 2/3 of the price Konica Hexar has a fully compensated bright line frame. <p> Are you saying that I should disregard the bright line at all and gestimate what I see? How do I compensate for parallax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_michel Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 i guess it all depends on how you use your t3. mine was aquired strictly for impromptu portraits and candid street photography. if i was going to spend a lot of time framing landscape/architectural shots, did not do my own printing (or used trannie film), or planned to do all my photography with the t3, i guess i would want a reliable set of parallax correcting brightlines. even then, however, in view of how close the lines are to the edge of the finder (which may be the basis for a more significant gripe) and the general unreliability of brightlines as a critical framing aid, i still don't think the hard to see (but certainly visible) brightlines could be a serious issue. the hexar was a great -- but very big -- camera. unfortunately, it lacks most of the nice custom functions of the t3, is not as well built, and without getting into a lot of detail (i'm sue you know the details anyway) is much more limited in terms of shutter speeds and apertures than the t3 (which has TRUE 2.8 widest aperture and a TRUE 1/500 top speed + a limited range 1/1200). the GR1s is also a great camera, but is not built well, has a VERY poor viewfinder, lacks most of the t3's custom features, and has poor customer support in the us. i should add that both the hexar and the GR are also MUCH MUCH slower to fire than the t3. i got rid of my hexar RF on ebay because it took too long to fire. the old hexar and the GR are even worse. the t3 is the first point and shoot that is quick enough to satisfy me. i just can't use a camera that won't fire the instant you hit the release. anyway, i guess the bottom line -- and the main point i was trying to make -- is that i don't think that for the purposes most people are going to deploy a t3 that brightline is very important. i also think that for the money, the camera overall is a helluva bargain. put mosy bluntly, there is no feature on the camera that i would delete to reaalocate resources to improve the brightlines. happy snappin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_michel Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 p.s. for the love of mike, always use a shade!! you don't know what you're missin'. p.p.s. if you like the t3, you'll love the minerva pythagore ii wristwatch -- buy 'em both the same day, you'll be in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mccormack Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 Well, I mortgaged the farm and bought a T3 yesterday. I'm very pleased with the design; Contax did an excellent job on the custom functions (7 very good options); manual focusing (actually two types, scale focusing and AF lock with the separate AFL button); excellent viewfinder (the bright lines issue is a non-issue, IMO); Two self- timer options (2 second and 10 second delay); facility for adding an optional lens hood, filters (filters require an adaptor ring) and a dedicated flash bracket for using TLA-200 flash only. <p> Minor quibble: The viewfinder does not display exact shutter speeds, only six "ranges" plus overexposure and long-time (LT). <p> ---->>>>NOTE TO T3 OWNERS: <<<<<---- When you turn your T3 on or off, does the motor make a sort of stuttering/twittering sound? Mine sounds like a bird chirping. I didn't notice this in the two different samples I played with in camera stores. Maybe the ambient noise in the store masked it. <p> Will report on optical quality as soon as I get some pictures developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajames Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 John, Mine chirps - isn't it just the motor retracting the lens? <p> I consider $180 for a lens hood ($40 for the adapter, $30 for the hood, and $100 for the case to accommodate the hood) a bit much, especially when the lens DOESN'T need a hood (in part, because it's already shaded!). It amounts to nothing but worthless camera jewelry - kind of like spending a grand on a watch that doesn't have a date function. But $185 bucks for a protective UV filter - now there's money well spent! <p> To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_stewart1 Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 I'd also very much like to hear an unbiased assessment of the image quality produced by the system. I don't expect elaborate laboratory testing, but an honest subjective appraisal would be welcome, particularly if it were by comparison to well-known point and shoots, such as the T4, which has sort of become the standard - for value, if nothing else. The problem I've encountered is buying cameras on the basis of web reviews and testimonials. Sometimes, you suspect the reviewers are "shills" for the manufacturers, but more often, I suspect they see their results through the rose-colored glasses of someone who has just dropped hundreds of dollars on something, and needs to justify it in his/her own mind: an unconscious bias in other words. I'm sorely tempted to buy this camera, because of a Zeiss preference and because it would be nice to have something a little more rugged and sophisticated than the T4 - which is great for value and portability, delivering results that, though definitely a cut below my Contax SLR lenses, are very nice for informal, spontaneous work - but suffers from shutter lag, having to cycle through flash options to turn the flash off, etc. But I'm still looking for a fair and convincing appraisal of the T3, and unwilling to buy one until I've heard it. Also, does anybody else wish they would make more of these cameras with a black finish? I don't like toting a gleaming seven-hundred-dollar object around public, nor trying to operate discretely unposed shots with same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msitaraman Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 In particular, any feedback on shutter lag, and shutter lag with prefocusing/Ae lock would be useful. Also, comments on speed of use in actual spontaneous situations, and speed of repeat shots and shutter lag in follow up shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mccormack Posted May 21, 2001 Author Share Posted May 21, 2001 A few T3 user images are starting to show up on the web. Of course it's hard to tell much about the quality of the images that are posted on the web, but try here: <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"> <meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"> <title>New Page 1</title> </head> <body> <p><a href="http://www.dentontaylor.com/tests/t3.htm"><font size="2" color="#0000FF">Denton Taylor's Gallery <br> Test images by Andrew Schank<br> </font></a></p> </body> </html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mccormack Posted May 21, 2001 Author Share Posted May 21, 2001 Regarding shutter lag, I think the design of the T3 has coped with this problem better than any design I've seen on a P&S, including the guessomatic focusing of the Minox. Shutter lag can be dealt with in several ways on the T3: <p> 1. Custom Function 2 lets you set the lens so that lens extension is performed when you press the shutter 1/2 way down. This locks focus and extends the lens making shutter release time almost instant. Or, you can set CF 2 to extend the lens when the shutter is fully pressed (less desirable for short shutter lag/quick releases but still pretty fast, in my opinion); <p> 2. You can set the camera in Manual Focus mode (MF). In MF the lens extends, the MF setting is displayed, in meters or fraction therof, and the setting and the lens stays extended until you release the shutter. MF is retained until the user resets the mode to AF or Infinity or some other mode. You can also set CF 7 to hold the MF setting until either the camera is turned off or until the MF setting is reset. In the latter setting, the MF will remain set even after the camera is turned off; <p> 3. You can quickly lock the distance (and extend the lens) with the AF lock button (AFL). CF 5 lets you customize whether you want focus lock only or focus lock and AE lock when using AFL button. CF 6 lets you customize whether you want AFL to lock the distance for one shot only or until the camera is turned off. <p> By the way, using the above combinations along with exposure compensation settings (+/- 2 EV in 1/3 or 1/2 increments) and a memorized/retained flash setting, makes the T3 pretty nimble. For example, you could customize the T3 to power up with default settings like MF at 2 meters, Flash to OFF, Exposure Compensation to +1, film leader out, etc. You could shoot all day with these settings if necessary, say while climbing or XC skiing. <p> PS. There's no mindless "Auto Power Off" on the T3, so need to worry about it turning itself off just when you want to take a shot. <p> PPS. I am not a Contax shill (The T3 is my first Contax camera.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_stewart1 Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 Info very helpful, as usual, John. Thanks.Chas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msitaraman Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 Thanks John for your detailed and precise information. Looks like a real winner of a high end P&S camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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