Contax T3 - User Comments, Discussion

An earlier discussion of the new Contax T3 on the Unmoderated Q&A board got zapped after 24 hours (about the same amount of time it took to deplete the T3 inventory at B&H), so I thought I'd try to continue it here. I'd love to hear some comments from users on their initial reactions to the camera, especially lens quality.

<p>

Does anyone want to start a user/mailing list group elsewhere? http://www.topica.com has a nice interface.

I for one would like to hear as much as possible about the T3 so I

can determine whether to accidentally back the car over our other

compact cameras. Thanks, John.

John,

<p>

Thanks for getting this thread going, I'm really looking forward to

comments from the lucky T3 owners. I have had a T2 for 5 years, and

will be eager to hear how the new T3 really compares. I'd prefer we

keep this thread going for now, rather than start a mailing list (at

least for the time being).

<p>

Paul

I'll make the same grouchy comment here as I made on the unmoderated

Q&A thread that got zapped.

<p>

For the price, you'd think they could afford to include a hot shoe.

Michael, it does include contacts for attachment of a flash bracket

for a dedicated flash. Given the small size of the T3, it probably

will handle better with the flash attached to a bracket rather than

to a hotshoe.

Hoping that I'm not violating any Photo.net rules, I'm posting a copy

of Andrew Schank's impressions of the T3 in this Forum, since the

review will be zapped after 24 hrs. in the Non-Archived Forum.

<p>

Contax T3 review

<p>

Just got my T3 and wanted to try and clear up some questions that

were bouncing around a thread last week. Before I start, I should

mention I am not that familiar with previous Contax compacts, so I

will not be able to compare this camera to them.

<p>

This is a very compact 35mm camera, about the size of my old Minox 35

or an Olympus Epic. It is also fairly light, unlike the old Rollei

35's which were about the same size but much heavier. It is smaller

than the Yashica T4. The camera feels exceptionally well made. The

back closes with a nice tight thud. The finder is contrasty, super

sharp and very bright and distorion free. Compared to any other point

and shoot I've used, it is in another league. Reminds of the finder

on my Minolta CLE. It s a dream for me to have any shutter speed

indication in the finder on a P&S. Although it is not a full scale

including all of the speeds, it sure is nice to know if you are at

1/30 sec or 1/125.

<p>

Another new feature for me is a distance readout on top of the

camera, which can come in handy if your not sure it locked on the

right subject. I love the apertures being on a dial instead of some

up and down button. I plan to use the camera on A preffered quite a

bit. In answer to some questions, the speeds over 1/500 are only

available starting with apertures F8 both on program and Aperture

preferred. This is an unfortunate limitation, as the high speed would

be more useful at the smaller f stops. Another question was about

battery life, and the manual says 12 rolls flash 1/2 of the time.

<p>

There is no way to remotely fire the shutter for tripod use. I quess

you could use the 2 sec. self timer. The camera does have a nice

metal tripod socket. It has some serious low light speeds that go to

3 minutes.

<p>

As far as controlls go, the camera is nicely designed. I have used

some of the Rollei P&S cameras, and this one is easier to set

exposure compensation, a feature I use a lot. The flash settings are

straight forward, although the flash itself is no blinding light, it

should do OK to 10 to 15 feet with 400 speed film. They do have a rig

for using one of the more powerful flashes from the G system, but it

seems to me to wreck the compact design of this camera.

<p>

The ability to change default settings is a dream for any "advanced"

point and shooter. I've already told the flash to not go off unless I

tell it too! When you turn the camera off and on, it retains the

settings you customized- a big complaint many folks have about some

other high end P&S. You can also use filters on this camera with an

adapter.

<p>

I am in the process of shooting a roll, and will be checking for

vignetting, sharpness, AF accuracy, etc. I'll report my findings in a

week or so. If you have any specific questions, post them here in the

next 24 hours before this thread gets the axe, and I'll try to answer

them.

<p>

-- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 01:43 P.M. Eastern

<p>

Answers

Forgot to mention 2 more things. One, this camera focuses to 12

inches, which is very close for this type of camera. I kept moving in

and in and kept getting a focus confirmation mark. There are clear

marks in the finder for close ups, and the camera tells you when it

is in "macro" mode. The other thing was about the delay time from

when the shutter is pressed to when the image is recorded. On the

standard setting, there is still a noticeable delay , but not as bad

as a Yashica T4. But you can change the default setting so the camera

will move the lens to the focus point when the shutter button is

pressed 1/2 down. To take an image then is almost immediate. I just

changed my default setting to this position, as it eliminates the lag

time if you are trying to get decisive moment expression, etc.

<p>

-- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 02:18 P.M. Eastern

<p>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

<p>

Thanks Andrew - sounds very promising so far. Can you set the ISO

independently, or do you compensate exposure? You already mentioned

that the camera, if switched off will retain the settings, but just

to confirm, does it retain exposure compensation too when switched

off? Thanks for you review - am looking forward to the rest!

<p>

-- Andreas Carl, March 31, 2001; 07:20 P.M. Eastern

<p>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

<p>

One of the custom functions (number 3)is to hold exposure

compensation for 1 frame only, or until the camera is shut off, or

until you reset it (independant of camera being shut on and off).

<p>

-- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 07:34 P.M. Eastern

<p>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

<p>

looking forward to your impression of the lens

<p>

-- Graham O'Brien, March 31, 2001; 09:11 P.M. Eastern

<p>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

<p>

I have both a Yashica T4 and a Contax T2, so I am looking forward to

the T3. The T2 provide aperture priority if you set the lens opening

to anything but 2.8. On 2.8, it goes to auto. Has the T3 changed

this? Both the T4 and T2 give me great 11X14 prints, and the T3 is

supposed to be even better.

<p>

-- Phil Stiles, March 31, 2001; 11:10 P.M. Eastern

<p>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

<p>

It has a P setting for Program, or you can set it for any aperture

you want from f2.8 to f16 and it will try to choose a shuter speed

within its range.

<p>

-- andrew schank, March 31, 2001; 11:37 P.M. Eastern

i love my t3!! in my own tests, the t3 lens bettered my leica 35mm

summicron asph in the center at f2.8 to f4 (at 5.6 and above, the

leica caught up; corner sharpness is better with the leica all the way

through -- but not by much!). the mtf info on the new sonnar (looks

more like a tessar variant in the cross section to me!!) 35mm f2.8

available on the cosina japan website (info at initial aperture only)

confirms higher center sharpness than any other 35mm lens currently

available. the custom features make the camera ideal for candid

street photography: you can easily preset focus distance AND set lens

to extend to that distance and stay there. shutter release is then

immediate. i have used hexar rf for about a year, and shutter release

on t3 is MUCH quicker (the hexar rf takes way too long to "think"

about exposure). also, the camera is very, very quiet. much more

quiet than my m6. finally, the camera is the perfect size -- fits in

the palm of the hand nicely (and feels very solid -- just the right

heft). if you decide to get a t3, IMHO the following accessories are

MANDATORY: (1) leather semi-hard case. i use the bottom half only.

it protects the camera against shocks and perspiration from your

sweaty hand, makes the t3 much easier and more comfortable to grip,

camouflages the camera nicely (how long until contax gives us a

special edition t3 in black a la the special edition g2?), and allows

the use of a proper neck strap (the case has standard strap lugs on

either side, the camera permits use of a handstrap or lanyard only).

2. filter adapter/heliopan lt yellow filter in 30.5/metal contax or

rubber heliopan shade. a camera that doesn't accept filters really

can't be considered a serious photo tool IMHO. contax makes provision

for filters via a bayonet type adapter. this works well. i keep a

heliopan MC lt yellow filter mounted all the time (i shoot only t400cn

with the camera). the screw in shade gave a nice increase in contrast

performance, even in conditions where you wouldn't necessarily worry

about flare. the use of a filter and shade also give the lens a

little more protection than that afforded by the way coo, but somewhat

flimsy "venetian blinds" built into the camera. i should add that the

instruction manual says that simultaneous use of filter and shade will

cause vignetting. i have shot many rolls with a filter and shade

without any problem. as mentioned, however, i use the heiopan

filters, not the contax brand (the contax filters do not appear to be

MC). the latter may have a thicker mount. there are too many great

features on this camera to mention. suffice it to say, the custom

settings allow almost unlimited versatility. don't overlook the fact

that the flash default settings are adjustable (this is accomplished

separately from the custon settings). will my m6/28mm ever see action

again. i just don't know. for now, all i carry is the t3 around

town, and a t3/rollei or t3/bessa ii combo when i travel.

FYI - There will be a Contax Day at B&H Photo in New York city on

Wednesday, May 9, 2001. A Contax rep. will be on hand in the store and

I believe there will be special pricing available for Contax equipment

for phone and email buyers as well as walk-ins. Check with B&H for

details and times.

Have had my T3 for only a short time. Pictures so far look good, but

have not projected any (use slides only). I enjoy the flexibility and

features mentioned in the preceeding notes.

<p>

My only negative, so far, is the bright lines (or corners) for framing

the image. The corner in the upper right is frequently difficult to

see and takes some searching. The bright line for closeups is often

the first thing my eye sees also. I actually emailed Contax (sending

it attention Blake Edwards). Another person replied, but discussed the

lines not appearing at all and suggested sending it in.. With this in

mind, I sent the camera to Contax. It came back very quickly, but no

specific comment. I think nothing has changed. Does anyone else find

the bright lines a problem?

The framing lines have a tendancy to fade from view if I haven't centered

my eye properly; this provides useful feedback, IMO. The lines also fade

from view if they are superimposed over a bright object; I live with it.

<p>

I too have shot only slides to date. I'm curious about your exposure

accuracy in bright outdoor light. I have had numerous overexposed

frames, but I have yet to test it in a rigorous fashion - I might have

overcompensated in some of these situations. I have heard from another

user who c/o overexposure with slides in unshaded sunlight. Until I spend

the time to experiment I shouldn't comment further.

<p>

Overall I am very pleased with the camera. It is soooo compact that I

never hesitate to take it along. The lens is very capable; the classic

Contax/Zeiss color rendetion and contrast is there, as is the sharpness

that we all expected from the marketing hype. I just received some shots

from the summit of St. Helens in which I see a bit of fall off (~1/3 of a

stop or less).

<p>

I've considered buying the case and adapter for hood and filters but the

slim design of the case that is included with the camera is awfully nice.

Flare has not been a problem so far, and for me, fiddling with filter on this

camera defeats the purpose.

To Leonard:

I do not own one, but saw at least 4 of them ( at B&H, J&R, Adorama )

and all of them had the same problem with upper right corner, so I do

not think it's a sample variation. This worries me a lot.

as for over-exposure, i found that i was using way too much

compensation in most situations. the meter appears to be more center

weighted than the t2 and may other p&s cameras i have used. the

pattern seems (through experimentation) very much like the one in my

m6 ttl (which itself has more center weighting than the m6 "classic").

as for the filter and shade, they don't change the profile of the

camera much, offer good physical protection, guard against flare (you

only see it in extreme cases; flare generally just robs apparent

sharpness by reducing overall microcontrast -- ALWAYS USE A SHADE WITH

ANY HIGH QUALITY LENS imho), offer nice creative potential (in the

case of filters -- heliopan makes a full range in 30.5), and look

SUPER COOL! finally, as for the leather semi-hard case, it is much

better than the pouch. it has proper strap lugs for carrying the

camera around the neck, protects it while allowing you to keep it at

the ready (i only use the base of the case), and keeps sweat off the

camera if you carry it in your palm for candid street shots. i love

this little camera. my only complaint is that they don't make it in a

28mm (or better still 24mm or 21mm) version. i also wish they had set

it up so that when the AFL button is used (especially when the camera

is programmed so that the AFL button sets exposure as well), you could

pre-extend the lens without touching the button (as you can in MF

mode). oh well, a trifling matter.

almost forgot: what's all this jibber-jabber about the no-see-um

bright lines????? in the first place, the bright lines are so close

to the edge of the finder as to be well nigh irrelevant. second, the

bright lines (as in all cameras that use them) do not actually

delineate the edge of the actual ultimate image. they encompass

probably 85% of the image. you should not be using them as true

framelines for careful composition. finally, since the camera (for

obvious reasons) only has one set of brightlines, any user will learn

in a short time how to frame an image without resort to the bright

lines in any event. in point of fact, the hard glass finder in the

t3 is AMAZINGLY good considering the cost of the camera. it is VERY

bright and distortion free. the fact that it has any bright lines at

all is just icing on the cake considering the price of the camera.

do you expect leica quality for one-fifth the cost of an m6 &

summicron combo? the display in the finder also is amazingly good --

at any price. what is all this "it worries me a lot" stuff. who

could possibly complain about what contax has provided for a little

more than six-hundred bucks? that's half the cost of a decent

rangefinder lens (and no leica lens focuses to ten inches like the

t3 "sonnar").

Roger,

<p>

Thanks for your insightful comments on the T3. This thread is getting

more informative as time and usage increase.

<p>

I agree with your point about the bright lines. Seems to be non-issue

with this camera that only has a field of view of 85%.

<p>

I've read of one other (experienced) Contax user complaining that his

T3 over exposed. Don't know whether he sent it in for repair or not.

<p>

Minor point: close focusing distance is stated to be .35m (13.8

inches) according to

http://www.kyocera.co.jp/news/2001/0102/0001-e.asp

This is about the same as the GR1 close focusing and MUCH better than

the Minilux.

<p>

Care to comment on the T3s optical quality compared to your Leica

glass?

Well, for $700( a used Nikon 8008+35/f2+50/f1.8+flash) I'd like to be

confident that what I see is what I get. Even if the bright frame

covers only 90% (not 85%) of the frame, that is what gets printed in

the lab, unless you custom order full frame prints, and that's what

seen in the frame mounted slide. For almost half of that price Ricoh

GR1 sports electronically controlled bright frame which has three

preset frame settings for different distances and dispays 9 shutter

speeds in 1/2 stops. For 2/3 of the price Konica Hexar has a fully

compensated bright line frame.

<p>

Are you saying that I should disregard the bright line at all and

gestimate what I see? How do I compensate for parallax?

i guess it all depends on how you use your t3. mine was aquired

strictly for impromptu portraits and candid street photography. if i

was going to spend a lot of time framing landscape/architectural

shots, did not do my own printing (or used trannie film), or planned

to do all my photography with the t3, i guess i would want a reliable

set of parallax correcting brightlines. even then, however, in view

of how close the lines are to the edge of the finder (which may be

the basis for a more significant gripe) and the general unreliability

of brightlines as a critical framing aid, i still don't think the

hard to see (but certainly visible) brightlines could be a serious

issue. the hexar was a great -- but very big -- camera.

unfortunately, it lacks most of the nice custom functions of the t3,

is not as well built, and without getting into a lot of detail (i'm

sue you know the details anyway) is much more limited in terms of

shutter speeds and apertures than the t3 (which has TRUE 2.8 widest

aperture and a TRUE 1/500 top speed + a limited range 1/1200). the

GR1s is also a great camera, but is not built well, has a VERY poor

viewfinder, lacks most of the t3's custom features, and has poor

customer support in the us. i should add that both the hexar and the

GR are also MUCH MUCH slower to fire than the t3. i got rid of my

hexar RF on ebay because it took too long to fire. the old hexar and

the GR are even worse. the t3 is the first point and shoot that is

quick enough to satisfy me. i just can't use a camera that won't

fire the instant you hit the release. anyway, i guess the bottom

line -- and the main point i was trying to make -- is that i don't

think that for the purposes most people are going to deploy a t3 that

brightline is very important. i also think that for the money, the

camera overall is a helluva bargain. put mosy bluntly, there is no

feature on the camera that i would delete to reaalocate resources to

improve the brightlines. happy snappin'!

p.s. for the love of mike, always use a shade!! you don't know what

you're missin'.

p.p.s. if you like the t3, you'll love the minerva pythagore ii

wristwatch -- buy 'em both the same day, you'll be in heaven.

Well, I mortgaged the farm and bought a T3 yesterday. I'm very

pleased with the design; Contax did an excellent job on the custom

functions (7 very good options); manual focusing (actually two types,

scale focusing and AF lock with the separate AFL button); excellent

viewfinder (the bright lines issue is a non-issue, IMO); Two self-

timer options (2 second and 10 second delay); facility for adding an

optional lens hood, filters (filters require an adaptor ring) and a

dedicated flash bracket for using TLA-200 flash only.

<p>

Minor quibble: The viewfinder does not display exact shutter speeds,

only six "ranges" plus overexposure and long-time (LT).

<p>

---->>>>NOTE TO T3 OWNERS: <<<<<----

When you turn your T3 on or off, does the motor make a sort of

stuttering/twittering sound? Mine sounds like a bird chirping. I

didn't notice this in the two different samples I played with in

camera stores. Maybe the ambient noise in the store masked it.

<p>

Will report on optical quality as soon as I get some pictures

developed.

John, Mine chirps - isn't it just the motor retracting the lens?

<p>

I consider $180 for a lens hood ($40 for the adapter, $30 for the hood, and

$100 for the case to accommodate the hood) a bit much, especially when

the lens DOESN'T need a hood (in part, because it's already shaded!). It

amounts to nothing but worthless camera jewelry - kind of like spending a

grand on a watch that doesn't have a date function. But $185 bucks for a

protective UV filter - now there's money well spent!

<p>

To each his own.

I'd also very much like to hear an unbiased assessment of the image

quality produced by the system. I don't expect elaborate laboratory

testing, but an honest subjective appraisal would be welcome,

particularly if it were by comparison to well-known point and shoots,

such as the T4, which has sort of become the standard - for value, if

nothing else.

The problem I've encountered is buying cameras on the basis of web

reviews and testimonials. Sometimes, you suspect the reviewers are

"shills" for the manufacturers, but more often, I suspect they see

their results through the rose-colored glasses of someone who has just

dropped hundreds of dollars on something, and needs to justify it in

his/her own mind: an unconscious bias in other words. I'm sorely

tempted to buy this camera, because of a Zeiss preference and because

it would be nice to have something a little more rugged and

sophisticated than the T4 - which is great for value and portability,

delivering results that, though definitely a cut below my Contax SLR

lenses, are very nice for informal, spontaneous work - but suffers

from shutter lag, having to cycle through flash options to turn the

flash off, etc. But I'm still looking for a fair and convincing

appraisal of the T3, and unwilling to buy one until I've heard it.

Also, does anybody else wish they would make more of these cameras

with a black finish? I don't like toting a gleaming

seven-hundred-dollar object around public, nor trying to operate

discretely unposed shots with same.

In particular, any feedback on shutter lag, and shutter lag with

prefocusing/Ae lock would be useful. Also, comments on speed of use

in actual spontaneous situations, and speed of repeat shots and

shutter lag in follow up shots.

A few T3 user images are starting to show up on the web. Of course

it's hard to tell much about the quality of the images that are posted

on the web, but try here:

<html>

<head>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;

charset=windows-1252">

<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">

<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">

<title>New Page 1</title>

</head>

<body>

<p><a href="http://www.dentontaylor.com/tests/t3.htm"><font size="2"

color="#0000FF">Denton

Taylor's Gallery <br>

Test images by Andrew Schank<br>

</font></a></p>

</body>

</html>

Regarding shutter lag, I think the design of the T3 has coped with

this problem better than any design I've seen on a P&S, including the

guessomatic focusing of the Minox. Shutter lag can be dealt with in

several ways on the T3:

<p>

1. Custom Function 2 lets you set the lens so that lens extension is

performed when you press the shutter 1/2 way down. This locks focus

and extends the lens making shutter release time almost instant. Or,

you can set CF 2 to extend the lens when the shutter is fully pressed

(less desirable for short shutter lag/quick releases but still

pretty fast, in my opinion);

<p>

2. You can set the camera in Manual Focus mode (MF). In MF the lens

extends, the MF setting is displayed, in meters or fraction therof,

and the setting and the lens stays extended until you release the

shutter. MF is retained until the user resets the mode to AF or

Infinity or some other mode. You can also set CF 7 to hold the MF

setting until either the camera is turned off or until the MF setting

is reset. In the latter setting, the MF will remain set even after the

camera is turned off;

<p>

3. You can quickly lock the distance (and extend the lens) with the AF

lock button (AFL). CF 5 lets you customize whether you want focus lock

only or focus lock and AE lock when using AFL button. CF 6 lets you

customize whether you want AFL to lock the distance for one shot only

or until the camera is turned off.

<p>

By the way, using the above combinations along with exposure

compensation settings (+/- 2 EV in 1/3 or 1/2 increments) and

a memorized/retained flash setting, makes the T3 pretty nimble. For

example, you could customize the T3 to power up with default settings

like MF at 2 meters, Flash to OFF, Exposure Compensation to +1, film

leader out, etc. You could shoot all day with these settings if

necessary, say while climbing or XC skiing.

<p>

PS. There's no mindless "Auto Power Off" on the T3, so need to worry

about it turning itself off just when you want to take a shot.

<p>

PPS. I am not a Contax shill (The T3 is my first Contax camera.)

Info very helpful, as usual, John. Thanks.

Chas.

Thanks John for your detailed and precise information. Looks like a

real winner of a high end P&S camera.