Arizona & Utah photography

<p>It seems like everything we'd want to go to Arizona for (to photograph) comes with a fee. Sedona has a "pass" that has to be purchased to park on any of the side roads you may need to use to start a hike (or so I've read), the Wave requires permitts very hard to obtain making advance airline reservations (to get the best fares) almost impossible, Coyote Buffs (fees and permits), you must hire a Navajo guide in order to get into the heart of Monument Valley, hire a guide for Valley de Chelley.... pay for this, pay to see that.... At least once we get into Utah there are only National Park fees which are very reasonable.<br>

Does anyone have any ideas for a resonable guide service for photographers into Monument Valley? The prices we've been quoted are $175 per person for a half day tour (private tour for 2 people). We don't really want to have to go with a group because we want to take our time taking the photos we want. There's not much sense going to photograph Monument Valley without hiring a guide to get us into the heart of the area, right? <br>

Any suggestions would be appreciated. We will be flying into Flagstaff, staying 2-3 nights in Sedona, hopefully going to film "the Wave", (1 or 2 nights in Page??),Coyote Buffs, then to Monument Valley (2 nights), Canyon de Chelley, Arches National Park (4 nights), Bryce Canyon (2 nights), Zion (3 nights), then maybe Grand Canyon on the way back to Flagstaff for our flight home. <br>

We will be going mid April 2010. Anything else I'm missing that we should see? Capital Reef, perhaps?<br>

Julie Roggow</p>

<p>In Sedona most of the beautiful places are marked "Private property" gated areas, and the "pass" that you purchase from city tourist office will not let you inside, but will allow you park your car for a longer time in the designated areas along streets or roads. You will always find higher ground places to shoot over fences and barb wires, more than you need.</p>

<p>New Navaho glass observation platform does not allow cameras, but you can have local authorized photographer standing on the platform to take your pictures there. Make sure you have someone left outside the platform to hold and guard your cameras while you enter the platform. You will also need to pay a "tresspasser's" fee to enter the Indian reservation park, but you will not get scalped there...</p>

<p>There are just too many places to list, but you will spot them, or read from advertising flyers found in local tourists office or tourist stands in other many places.</p>

<p>Julie,<br>

Having photographed the southwest for the past 15 years the only place that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is Sedona where you have to pay to park on the side of the road. I won't go there.<br>

you can get great images at Monument Valley just driving through on your own if you go in the afternoon and stay for sunset. You are also allowed to hike the Wildcat Trail without a permit with views if the Mittens. You can shoot from the 191 for sunrise. Great views to be had north of the Valley turnoff.<br>

Don't know if Tom Philips fees have gone up, we paid $110.00/person for 4 hours in late Feb, this year to access Sand dunes below Totem Pole. <br>

Page has many places to shoot and explore. Horseshoe Bend for sunrise, Wave for drawing, 9:00 A.M. Utah time, fee, $5.00/person. You go out for the drawing, remember it is Utah time, then go back and shoot slots.<br>

Canyon De Chelley is a beautiful canyon to shoot and almost worth the fees. Best time is afternoon and sunset when trees are leafed out and water is running for reflections. Also great views from overlooks. I'll be going there Saturday to shoot a day. Campground is free.<br>

Moab area is most bang for your buck. Two national parks and Dead Horse Point State Park, $7.00 fee. Also Fisher Towers area, lots and lots to photograph.<br>

Capitol Reef is spread out, Temple of Sun and Moon is a ways from visitors center and up a 4WD road, best time sunrise or sunset from a hiked overlook.<br>

good luck,</p>

<p> </p>

<p>You need to be willing to avoid the entrenched tourist zones. <br>

There are millions of acres of beautiful, freely accessible land waiting to be explored and photographed. The whole Ut/Az border area is crawling with colorful slot canyons, mesas, crazy rock formations, awesome canyons, and the like. Escalante National Monument, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, the San Rafel Swell area, Paria wilderness, Vermillion Cliffs, etc., a person could spend weeks in any of these areas. <br>

Suggest you pop the $75 for an annual National Park pass. The up-front cost is a bit steep, but it will quickly pay for itself.</p>

<p>Don't forget the Valley of the Gods; only 30 or 40 miles from Monument Valley, and very nearly as dramatic. It's BLM land, so no guides needed. Check at the nearest BLM office for more information. If you have a four wheel drive vehicle, you'll be fine. If there has been rain recently don't try it with any vehicle. The best place to stay for it is in Bluff, at the Recapture Lodge.<br>

Otherwise, you will find that almost everywhere in Utah or Arizona, especially as you near the well-known places, is amazingly photogenic. The beauty is not confined to the official parks!</p>

<p>I've seen many places say that a 4wd vechicle with high clearance is needed. What exactly qualifies a vehicle to be "high clearance". For example, is a Jeep Cherokee "high clearance"?</p>

<p>Julie Roggow</p>

<p>I've photographed around Sedona once and frankly won't bother to do so again- there's just too much else in the southwest of better photographic potential. I'd take a couple of days in Capital Reef any time in preference. The red rocks round Sedona are actually a bit of a jumble and a decent structured photograph is not easy to find. <br>

Your vehicle. I've been on many of the roads in those areas in a Ford Explorer and thats high clearance enough. My fear about a Cherokee is that, if I understand it right, they are not all switchable 4wd which enables you to decide whether you're in 2wd or 4wd. You need to check the specific model, and ideally make sure that it isn't fitted with standard street tyres. If you're renting they may not be willing to confirm full specification before collection and may fit street tires because your rental contract will say that they offer no cover if you take the vehicle off the metalled road. That said, most of the driving you'll be doing round the NP isn't demanding anyway and I've seen regular sedans on the publically accessible circuit of Monument Valley. I have been on these roads in April in heavy snow, particularly round Bryce and Grand Canyon, and if that happens well all bets are off. </p>

<p>You don't actually need a guide in Monument Valley. There's a circle route that you can drive yourself on easily enough and it has lots of photographic opportunity. If you specifically want Teardrop Arch, the dunes near the Tepees, or views from up on Hunts Mesa you need a guide, otherwise getting round the circuit in morning and again in afternoon light should keep you busy for a day. Its a while since I was there, but it has been possible to take a left on the approach to the main car park and find the old campground which is a great place for early and late photographs that isn't dependent on the gate to the circular drive being open- which tends to be too late for dawn. Maybe someone else could confirm or otherwise that this is still tenable.</p>

<p>Other places I might suggest would include Petrified Forest, particularly the northern part of the park, And Cedar Breaks if you can get there- its nearly 10 000 feet and is an amphitheatre somewhat like Bryce, but faces west so its best in the afternoon, unlike Bryce. You can dive there easily enough from Bryce if the road's open.</p>

<p>A Cherokee no doubt qualifies for HC.<br>

Reaching some of the more remote (yet very appealing) destinations requires driving through loose sand, or along rocky, rutted roads. A true 4WD will be handy. White Pocket, just a ways W. of Page is such a place. (I really wanna go there!)<br>

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7464969 <br>

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=+36%C2%B057%2723.86%22N+111%C2%B053%2748.02%22W&sll=37.053807,-111.895752&sspn=0.165493,0.395508&ie=UTF8&ll=36.957642,-111.900065&spn=0.010356,0.024719&t=h&z=16&lci=com.panoramio.all<br>

Neat, eh? :)<br>

HC isn't a requirement, but it will help. 4WD, with a good driver, opens up many, many more opportunities. On the other hand, a vanilla sedan will get you to more places than anyone could reasonably visit in the week or so you'll be there.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Is it possible to photograph and explore Antelope Canyon without a guide?</p>

<p>Julie Roggow</p>

<p>Hi Julie:<br>

We went on a 4 hour photo tour with Tom Phillips in May 2008 at a cost of $110 each. The price for this tour on his website is now $30 per person per hour, or $120 each. We thought it was well worth it. The following link is his website.<br>

<a href="http://www.monumentvalley.com/Pages/english_tours.html">http://www.monumentvalley.com/Pages/english_tours.html</a><br>

What I would suggest is that you stay at one of the hotels at MV and do both the self-guided drive and a tour. Tom's tour will take you to areas that you can't get to on the self-drive loop.<br>

There's a new hotel , the View, right beside the visitors center that is getting good reviews.<br>

As for a car, I think any truck based SUV would be OK, we had a Toyota 4-Runner, but do check the local road conditions before setting out. Also, keep in mind that most rental agreements specifically prohibit driving off tarmac, and you may be liable for any costs incurred. We didn't have any problems at all driving on gravel roads, but I would avoid any roads that are specifically designated as "jeep" or 4WD" roads.<br>

One of the best photographers resources for this part of the country is Laurent Matres books Photographing the Southwest. He has separate volumes for Utah, Arizona and Colorado. You can get them at Amazon. He includes descriptions of trail and road conditions going to various sites.<br>

This is a wonderful area for photography, you'll love it.<br>

cheers<br>

Santo</p>

<p>I just saw your note about Antelope Canyon. <br>

In May we were able to visit the Lower canyon on our own after paying the entrance fee. The parking lot is only about 100 feet from the entrance.<br>

The pakring lot for the Upper canyon is just across the highway, but you'll have to park and wait for a guide to drive you to the canyon entrance, it's about 2 or 3 miles away. The guide will stay with you and shepard you and the others in the group through the canyon. <br>

You can also book a photo tour to Upper from one of the operators in Page. We went with a Chief Tsosie tour. It will give you a bit more time in the canyon and their groups are smaller. There were six of us went we went. This is his website...<br>

<a href="http://www.antelopeslotcanyon.com/index.html">http://www.antelopeslotcanyon.com/index.html</a><br>

You should visit both. Upper was very crowded, but still worth visiting.<br>

cheers<br>

Santo</p>

 

<p>I just saw your note about Antelope Canyon. <br>

In May we were able to visit the Lower canyon on our own after paying the entrance fee. The parking lot is only about 100 feet from the entrance.<br>

The pakring lot for the Upper canyon is just across the highway, but you'll have to park and wait for a guide to drive you to the canyon entrance, it's about 2 or 3 miles away. The guide will stay with you and shepard you and the others in the group through the canyon. <br>

You can also book a photo tour to Upper from one of the operators in Page. We went with a Chief Tsosie tour. It will give you a bit more time in the canyon and their groups are smaller. There were six of us in the group. This is his website...<br>

<a href="http://www.antelopeslotcanyon.com/index.html">http://www.antelopeslotcanyon.com/index.html</a><br>

You should visit both. Upper was very crowded, but still worth visiting.<br>

cheers<br>

Santo</p>

 

<p>Oops, sorry about the double post, perhaps the moderator can remove one?<br>

Santo</p>

<p>We took our Jeep Liberty thru MV w/o any problem. Some folks in rentals that all look like the Ford Taurus, had to be careful. The south rim of Canyon de Chelley is the prettier, in our opinion. If you have the option, always go when school is back in session! Also, in the fall, the Native Americans lower their prices to buy food. You don't even have to haggle, just walk up to a $20 piece of pottery and they will say "You can have that for $10".</p>

<p>Julie, not to be too preachy here but your griping about fees got me thinking. These folks out in the remote areas you want to see don't have much of a pot to piss in. Especially the Indians, they are more impoverished as a nation than other groups in the US. I'd hate to think they'd have to sell mineral rights for strip mining Monument Valley, oil exploration on the rim or within Canyon de Chelly, etc. Most folks complain that their tax dollars go to waste. Please consider these Photo expedition fees as WELL worth it! (except for Sedona, but why anyone goes there to worship their crystals is beyond me). <br>

Regards,<br>

Mark</p>

<p>Julie, I think they still turn you loose in the lower section of Antelope.<br>

Drive up to the gate, pay the fee, and walk in. You can then wander at your own pace, so long as you return within 4 hours. (Not that they seemed too worried about it.) At least that's how they operated when I was last there a few years ago. AFAIK, you _must_ stay with your assigned herd in the upper canyon.</p>

<p>Seems like they should change Arizona's name to "The Pay Per View State". :)<br>

Julie</p>

<p>Mark,<br>

I understand your point but since that land was given to them free in the first place....and I don't believe they have to pay taxes... (that's a whole other discussion)... But, I guess it's the American way to figure out how to make money with whatever you've got to work with. I can't fault them for that.<br>

I've been all over the world for my travel and photography business. I've just never run in to any place that had so many fees and permits required. BTW, I really don't mind paying our National Park fees and such that do help to keep the parks available to the general public and help preserve the land.<br>

Julie Roggow</p>

<p>Before we diss AZ for charging at Monument Valley, note that it is largely in Utah!</p>

<p>Julie,<br>

The Native Americans in Utah and Arizona were forced to take the land they now own when they were forced to move from other more desirable locations. Although the charges for entrance to their parks may be high in your opinion, you should remember the Indian Nations in this country have been screwed over by the US government. They are owed millions in unpaid royalties for oil and minerals taken from their lands, and they have been swindled by both the government and mining/oil companies. I have paid a total of about $600 for various fees/guides at Monument Valley. My revenues from images taken on those outtings have made me many times that amount. More power to them.</p>

<p>Bad Julie! :)<br>

No cookie for you until you catch up on native history!</p>

<p>"Given to them" is a 'unique' outlook, at best. The original Navajoland extended over a much wider area, and included areas with niceties such as water and fertile soil. The current reservation is largely land that US ranchers and farmers didn't want.</p>

<p>When you're there, look around at what the natives are doing for a living. The land won't support much; grazing livestock and tourism are about the only 'industries' available. The 60's uranium boom offered employment ... and death, due to the mines' criminal levels of radon gas. Uranium and coal mining goes on to this day - I'd be surprised if the tribes receive much by way of mineral rights fees. </p>

<p>Lower antelope is something like $30. Charging $ may not sound much like the "spiritual indian" stereotype, but it's about the only thing they have going. The less popular sites on res. land can be visited for with a 5 or 6 dollar permit. </p>

<p>FWIW, I'd like to see companies like Intel build Fab/factories on various tribe's res land. In exchange for land, water, and power, the company would educate natives and employ them at the plant. Some - ANY - economic base would do wonders for theirstandard of living.</p>

<p>Hope this doesn't sound too preachy! :)</p>

<p>-Greg</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Julie, You've gotten many good responses, here's another. My wife and I were at Canyon de Chelly last fall. The half day trip into the canyon for about $50 person was worthwhile and enough. You will also be adding to the Navajo economy - there are few jobs and ways to earn a living in the Chinle area.The canyon is lived in by the Navajo people, which makes it an interesting contrast between the ancient ruins and today's homesteads and farms in the canyon. The ruins photograph quite well with a telephoto lens. There are also great pictographs and petroglyphs. Here are a couple tips if you go there. To get a good image of Spider Rock, wait at the overlook until sunset after the shadows are gone. If you have your camera on a tripod, you should get some great shots. Accommodations in Chinle are few, and there are only a couple of eating places. I recommend Best Western for the best food there. It or Holiday Inn are the best options for lodging. The hotel in the park is too expensive and doesn't offer anything special. It's a 5 minute drive to the canyon from town.</p><div></div>

<p>I'm well aware of late 1800's history and the terrible things that were done to the Indians. Providing them with free land was a well deserved retribution considering what their losses were. Its' something that had to be done (and should've been done). There were other groups, like the Blacks, that suffered inconceivable losses and torture in this country too...maybe we should have reimbursed their offspring for the next centuries too ??? <strong> I'm not saying we should not have</strong>,.. just interesting to think about, but this is not the place for such a discussion.<br>

<strong>Now back to 2009...</strong> Thank you all for the wonderful tips! Larry, I loooked at your photo and others of Spider Rock. It looks like a wonderful place to go! Do I need to reserve a guide in advance or are they easy to find on the day you show up and would like a tour? How many hours was your tour? It looks like it's best to go late afternoon, right?<br>

Julie</p>

<p>Irony: At the Taos Pueblo, the Presidential photos most displayed are that of Richard Nixon! He gave them back some 100,000 acres including their sacred Blue Lake above the Pueblo.</p>

<p>I have extensiely photographed the High Desert Southwest, starting back in the 70s when I was in college at the U of A in Tucson. I never begrudged a nickel paid to the Navajos. Those poor souls got screwed over so many times, a couple of bucks here and there to take wonderful pictures was well worth it.<br>

Funny Gordon mentions Richard Nixon. Their other "hero" was Barry Goldwater.</p>