5d plus 24-105 f4 for weddings?

Hi

 

Is anyone using a 5D for weddings? How about the kit lens (24-105 f4 L).

 

I'm interested in seeing how the camera copes with noise at high ISO

(with minimal post-processing, so no Noise Ninja), and if people find

the maximum f4 a hindrance (for throwing backgrounds out of focus, or

because it will bump up the ISO).

 

Would I be better getting the 24-70 f2.8 or does that one stop not

make much of a difference (my gut feeling is the extra 35mm on the

lens will make more of a positive difference than an extra stop).

 

Final question: is there a good non-L (cheap) 50mm f1.8 for if the f4

is too slow?

 

Any posted sample images would be great.

 

Thanks.

Answer to your final question, yes there is a good cheap 50 1.8, it's about 70 dollars. You can pick up a 50 1.4 for around 250 dollars, it has nicer 'bokeh' and better colour rendition. The 1.8 has no FTM, the 1.4 does and is better build quality - it also has faster AF, but not true ring USM.

I've made no secret of not liking the 24-70/2.8.L. IMO it is too large of a lens for a 5D

sized camera ... and while great at the 24 end, it is just to short on the long end for

wedding work ... thus defeating the zoom versatility idea. Were it a 24-90/2.8L I'd be

more inclined to give it a shot.

 

On the other hand I've found the 24-105/4L Image Stabilized zoom ... ( which is NOT a kit

lens that I know of ) ...to be much more useful for wedding coverage. Arguably an entire

wedding could be shot with this lens alone (with a back-up lens of course).

 

The IS lets you shoot hand held at lower shutter speeds (as long as subject movement isn't

a problem), and the 105 end isolates the subject quite nicely even if it is only an f/4. (see

example below). Part of the reason is that the lens adds the exrta 35mm in zoom length,

AND allows macro close-ups, focusing down to almost a foot away even when zoomed to

105mm (the closer you get, the less depth of field). This is especially true when

considering the difference between 70mm and 105.

 

Some may argue that the extra stop will aid in AF speed, but I found that not to be true.

Having used both lenses extensively, they seemed to be equally speedy. Probably because

the glass elements are larger in the 2.8 zoom compared to the f/4.

 

If I were to add a 50 it would be the 50/1.4. If you want speed go for it all the way. Look

for a mint used one.<div></div>

I've heard that the 5D is excellent when it comes to low noise at high ISO, granted it came from a landscape photographer but noise is noise. BTW Marc, that's an excellent shot.

In addition Bob, you should really reconsider maybe investing in a couple of L lenses. If you're doing weddings, the money you spend on them could be well justified by the money you earn with them. I'm thing of tapping into this market. I have already purchased the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L and plan on getting the 24-70mm f/2.8 L. Now if I can only convince my wife to let me get the 1Ds Mark II.

bob - check out www.the-digital-picture.com for some hands on lens reviews.

The 5D and 24-105 combo is great for weddings. A fast prime or two will serve you well

as backup.

 

But I think if you don't already have the 5D, that you could consider shooting a 30D and

the forthcoming 17-55/2.8IS. If these were available at the time that I got the 24-105 or

5D, I probably would have gone that way instead.

The 24-70L being my favorite focal length for wedding photography (28-70 admittedly until this lens) having twice made a foray into prime shooting with 50mm and 85mm lenses, I did sell my 24-70L for the 24-105L hoping that I would enjoy the extra range and IS but it was not to be.

 

No doubt Marc is so used to shooting with ultra wide primes on his 5D than anything slower is one and the same thing AF-wise. Due to the extra sensitive sensor on the 5D only being activated with lenses f2.8 and faster, the 24-105L focuses noticeably slower in low light (which we wedding shooters do a lot of!) on the 5D than the 24-70L which I went back to. The viewfinder is also noticably darker, nowhere near as bright as my 85mm was but still brighter than the 24-105L where brightness in low light halls is at a premium.

 

On an asthetic point of view I found myself getting lazy using the 24-105L, I was zooming in too much instead of getting closer. With the 24-70L if I'm at the long end it is because I want a telephoto look, but 70mm isn't long enough to get lazy with, not by a long stretch.

 

From a technical point of view and again I was shooting it against the 24-70L and an 85mm, the vignetting of the 24-105L is bad, it showed up at 50mm until stopped down to f8 and that is bad. In comparison the 24-70L shows vignetting between 24-28mm at f4 but clears up completely after that. The distortion at the wider end was rather severe compared to the 24-70L to the point that I was using PTLENS (the newer version released since is triple as fast and well worth the money) for all photos taken with the lens and that was literally doubling my processing time. I'm sure for many these problems may not be issues but for me with my workflow I don't have time to fix vignetting and didn't have time on urgent commercial jobs to wait for 300 files to run through PTLENS though as I said it is far faster now, especially on my dual core. Sharpness wise the 24-70L, both of the ones I had, had an edge on the 24-105L, depends on how anal about sharpness you are really but I was noticing better contrast and edge definition with the 24-70L that really showed on the 20+ family groups at weddings or B&G portraits where they are small in the picture. My 24-70's were comparable to my 50mm 1.8 for sharpness and contrast (though not in the league of the 85mm). Even my 70-200 f4L doesn't get quite that good for contrast though its contrast is more pleasing for portraiture. Unlike Marc who hates it, I love and am impressed by the hood design on the 24-70L, it is certainly far better at controlling flare than any other lens I've owned period and streets ahead of the Sigma EX that preceded it, I can shoot with 'shoot thru' brollies in front and to the side of me and at 70mm due to the amount of recession of the lens element, not notice any flare at all! My Sigma used to flare horribly. Sometimes you have to shoot in less than ideal circumstances and you can't always garuantee the light will always be behind you.

 

Anyway, horses for courses.... ;-)

"Due to the extra sensitive sensor on the 5D only being activated with lenses f2.8 and

faster..."

 

Ben, could you point me to where that information might be found?

 

It's not the hood, it's whole lens that is too large IMO, especially on a 5D.

 

I'm not much of a fan of zooms anyway, and never owned one that was my "favorite" for any

application ... they're all to slow.

Ultimately, the best thing to do is go to the camera store with a CF card and test the options.

 

I am 100% sold on the 24-105 f4 on the 5d. But that has a lot more to do with my shooting style. I don't mind losing the 2.8 in exchange for the absolutely incredible IS!! Motion blur is perfectly acceptable to me and the customer.

 

The 24-70 2.8 is on the 20d, with which my wife/teammate shoots. It is a superb lens, and she does wonders with it.

 

I bought the 24-105 a few months ago, and the 24-70 a few weeks ago. A few months ago I was on the fence with the two, and was originally planning to buy only one lens. I made the 24-105 decision after a visit to the camera store while viewing the images back home.

 

(the 24-70 was purchased due to a body upgrade, requiring an additional lens -- and believe me, I was again on the fence between an additional 24-105 or the 24-70 -- the 24-70 winning that battle for the 2.8)

I don't have the 24-105 but I can show you an iso 1600 photo from the 5D. I bumped the brightness on this so the noise shows a bit more- but I like it!<div></div>

It took me awhile to get comfortable with the 24-70 f2.8 because of three things:

 

1. i was used to the 85mm/1.8 and 135mm/2.0

2. it's not as sharp at the extremes of the focal range

3. it weighs a ton

 

Marc's right it is an immense piece of equipment with the 5D--shot my first wedding with

that combo (20D plus 85mm on the other shoulder) last night. Interestingly I found myself

much more comfortable with high ISOs probably has as much to do with the 12.8 MP of

the the 5D.

 

I did get some grain here, especially noticeable in the black jacket, but acceptible to at

least to 8 x 10 I would think --don't have Noise Ninja. I find more grain acceptible in black

and white.

 

(And yes, I was going for the dragged shutter effect here!)<div></div>

One more...

 

Less grain in b/w (duotone)<div></div>

I can't find a source online that I remember, it's probably in the manual, I thought it was common knowledge that the non 1 series bodies only had the 'extra sensitive' sensor in the middle and for lenses f2.8 or faster.

 

I use the grip on the 5D which brings it very close to both the weight and size of a 1 series so the lens balances very well on it.

Those are some nice photo posts.....!

The 5D, like the 10D, 20D, and 30D also has an extra high precision focus sensor (center point) with f/2.8 or faster lenses. It's in all the manuals.

 

Page 78 of the 5D manual:

Ha! Ben, I found the information you referenced.

 

"Each AF sensor consists of a pair of short lines of pixels forming an array. One array

comprises the outer sensors. Two crossed arrays (one vertical, one horizontal) comprise

the center sensor. With lenses or f2.8 or faster, the camera activates a second vertical

array in the center."

 

However, the DOF tolerances of a slower maximum aperture lens are taken into account

needing to move the lens less than with a more critical DOF requirement of a fast

lens ...which makes sense.

 

"When the camera determines how far and in what direction the lens must move to cancel

the phase difference, it does so within a tolerance of "within the depth of focus" of lenses

slower than f2.8 (down to f5.6)...

 

Still, I knew there was a reason I liked fast glass : -) Good info Ben.

I only ever use the center focusing point, can't stand how much slower the other ones are in low light, the hunt as well even with the flash assist when focusing on a relatively 2D surface such as a face profile on.

Ben Anderson

"You can pick up a 50 1.4 for around 250 dollars"

 

where???? :)