1K budget

Hello all,

I have around 1K to spend on a new camera system. I currently have mamiya c220....

I was thinking about getting Hasselblad 500 cm with 80mm....Is it a good choice?

thank you

What are you looking to DO with your system?

$1K will get you a 500 c/m, 80mm, and maybe a few backs. If you want it to sit on the shelf and take take out occasionally, that's fine.

On the other hand, I'd let the format be my guide as there are superb systems and $1K will buy you a lot.

For 6x6, I'm partial to the Bronica SQ(in particular the SQ-a). $1K will buy you a body or two, a 50/80/150 set, and a couple of backs.

I put my two body, 5 lens RB-67 kit together for a little over $1K, but I lucked into some purchases with it. It's a beast of a camera, but you won't hear any complaints about the optical quality.

I'm not well versed in 645 systems, but they tend to offer a lot of bang for the buck. I'd be inclined to look into something from Mamiya or the Bronica ETR system. Others can probably provide more details.

The price of entry into the world of Hasselblad will run you $1000 as Ben implied. All you get is an entitlement to spend much more. Adding a few lenses will more than double your price of entry. They are great cameras as many will tell you and as you probably know. Personally, I find any medium format that is less than 6x6 to be just that, less, but that's me.

I too have Bronica equipment and feel you can put a very comprehensive Bronica system together at under your budget point. While the SQ was a good camera, there are too many necessary improvements and features on the SQ-A and SQ-Ai to consider a low priced SQ. In the end though it comes down to what you would be happy with and what your needs are. What have you been shooting and shooting with up to now?

Thank you for your replies

I currently have mamiya c220 and I just want... something different :)) I also tried holga which was surprisingly nice...

I mostly photograph people

I used to do photography as a business (with digital, had markIII) but I closed my business and now only do it as a hobby... fell in love with film and medium format.

I am planning on developing the film myself at some point, but for now I enjoy process of shooting :)

So, what are you currently lacking?

About all a Hasselblad will get you vs. what you have now is a much smaller/lighter camera. For your budget, you can probably squeeze in an extra film back, but it's going to be tight. Film backs are great if you like to shoot different types of film or if you're in a setting where you need to change film fast(in general, SLRs are more complicated to load than TLRs).

If you want to expand your lens availability but stick with 6x6, I'll again go back to suggesting a Bronica.

If you want to really "try something different" a different format is worth considering. 6x7 is a logical step up, although neither of the common SLR systems(Pentax 67 and Mamiya RB67) are exactly light and nimble. The Pentax is the lighter of the two(it handles like the biggest 35mm SLR you've ever held) and also has a better lens selection, while the RB does get you interchangeable backs and the ability to change between landscape and portrait without turning the camera. Either can be handheld, although can also tire you out quickly. One advantage of 6x6 SLRs is that they do tend to be a lot more nimble.

well, lighter IS better. Additional backs are nice. Changing lens is great

I have 1k for a minimal setup now but will be able to invest more later on...

I am going to Scotland in August and really want to prepare for the trip in terms of the camera.

I am new to medium format so I am not even sure - would bronica or Hasselblad provide better/sharper photos then my current mamiya? (sorry for the stupidity, but I don't want to pretend I know something I don't :) ) I mean, I understand that grain mostly depends on the film used, right?

Then lens provides sharpness and all the beauty :)))

But what is the difference between camera bodies?

Camera can be slower/faster in term of the usage, have better focusing screen, have autofocus or not etc.... be 6x6 645 6x7 etc

But do different medium format camera bodies provide different quality photos?

Most medium format glass is universally good, and Mamiya is well respected.

There are folks who claim some inherent magic of the Zeiss glass on Hasselblads, but then I'd challenge anyone to pick out a Hassie pic from one taken with a good Zenzanon or Mamiya lens.

Autofocus-forget it unless you want to invest in the Pentax 645 system. I'll plead ignorance here.

As far as speed of handling goes-I don't find a huge difference between systems of a similar format. At least in 6x6, they all pretty much work the same-focus, compose, shoot, advance. All pretty much load film the same way, and you'll likely struggle at first(the film insert comes out and the leader is wrapped from the feed spool, around the pressure plate, and to the take-up spool) but it becomes second nature if a bit cumbersome with some practice. Pretty much all systems-but Bronicas especially-have a lot of interlocks to keep you from fogging your film or taking blank exposures-if you can't get the camera to do something, in general it's because there's a reason(i.e. taking an exposure with the dark slide in, removing the back with the dark slide out, removing a lens without advancing the film). You may find that replacing the focusing screen helps with focus, although that's a decision you'll have to make based on the screen in the camera when you get it and your personal preferences.

The RB67 is probably the slowest handling of the SLRs(IMO) since cocking the shutter/mirror and advancing the film are separate actions. There again, though, they become second nature. 6x7 SLRs are also just so large that they are slow and cumbersome handheld.

If you're working at slow shutter speeds, my experience is that it's difficult to get sharp images out of any SLR handheld. I do my best to either use a tripod or stick with 1/250 or faster regardless of the lens. I have sharp photos at slower speeds, but I certainly get fewer than I do in 35mm. Also bear in mind that most SLRs use leaf shutters, and the fastest shutter speed is 1/500(focal plane shutter cameras like some Hasselblads and Bronicas can go to 1/1000).

If you can find a Hasselblad 501CM setup for under $1k go for it, I'd avoid the older models, most are beat up. I love the Bronica SQ-A system for $1k you can wind up with a body, AE finder, 4 lenses, and several backs. For $1k you could even get a nice Bronica GS-1 6x7 system. IMO it handles much nicer in the field than the Mamiya and the lenses are tack sharp.

Everyone is going to tell you their camera is better. Do your own homework, handle them all then make the choice.

If you can find a Hasselblad 501CM setup for under $1k go for it, I'd avoid the older models, most are beat up. I love the Bronica SQ-A system for $1k you can wind up with a body, AE finder, 4 lenses, and several backs. For $1k you could even get a nice Bronica GS-1 6x7 system. IMO it handles much nicer in the field than the Mamiya and the lenses are tack sharp.

Everyone is going to tell you their camera is better. Do your own homework, handle them all then make the choice.

problem with "handle them first" is that they all are sold on eBay and its hard to see them in person before buying

Well, you do already have one of the largest MF cameras on the market.

Still, I'd look for a way to play with them before plunking down money.

Let's face it too-if you want a Hasselblad just buy one. If I had $1K to spend and wanted to get serious about how MF it's not how I would spend it, but ultimately it's your decision. One thing you can reasonably count on is that Hassie prices probably aren't going down any time soon, so if you buy one and hate it you can probably pretty easily resell it with little or no loss. As good as the other systems are, they can be slow movers.

Okay so you are shooting with a TLR currently. Do you change lenses on it? Do you mostly hand hold? Are you prepared to use a different kind of finder? How is your Mamiya metered (integrated or hand-held?)

Some systems (such as the Bronica) have prism finders with meters as well as the standard WLF without a meter. I have a meter prism on my SQ Ai and SQ A and have gotten great results from it. If you like using a hand held meter then you can choose which finder is best for you (Waist level or prism). One of the nice things about a prism finder is that the image isn't upside down. I admit that looking at an upside down image is a problem for me. I can compose a shot much more easily with a prism finder than a WLF. The AE finder mentioned above is perfect for solving the upside down image issue and for incorporating a meter. There are green and red lights inside the Bronica viewfinder that will glow if the exposure is under or over exposed (red LED) or correct (green LED) when using the metered finder.

One of the drawbacks from a SLR such as the Bronica is the mirror. It is large and although I am not an expert on this, I try to avoid any vibration from it retracting during an exposure by locking the mirror up after I compose the shot. The Bronica SQ A and SQ Ai both have the mirror lock up feature but the SQ does not (AFAIK). A Hassie has a leaf shutter I believe so this isn't as much of an issue if you went that route.

You can hand hold a Bronica or a Hassie but I have gotten over the urge to do that and usually use my tripod. I will occasionally take a hand held shot but that isn't so often for me.

As mentioned by someone else, you will hear a lot of comments that are biased (like mine are) but then again, I put a Bronica system together with four lenses, three backs, two finders and two bodies for under a $1,000. The money I would have spent on a Hasselblad I used to buy a 4x5.

If you WANT a Hasselblad, you will always be second guessing whatever other camera you buy. So buy a Hasselblad.

If you are not keen on a Hasselblad, then there are many other systems. You just need to figure out which one matches up to what you want.

And the comment about being able to assemble a camera + 3 lens kit for under $1,000 with some of the other cameras is certainly a factor. Not all of us have the money to build a 3-lens Hasselblad kit.

As for any camera that you get, you NEED to allow time to run a few test rolls of film through the camera and have it processed, to determine if the shutter speeds are reasonably accurate. The Hasselblad has 2 ranges of shutter speeds, that use different mechanisms. But I forget where the transition is between the 2. I had a lens that was good at the high shutter speeds, but the lowers speeds were OFF and needed repair.

You also need to allow time to get to know the camera. Each camera has it's own qwerks that you have to learn.

Example1, My first roll in my Hasselblad came back BLANK. The camera shop owner and I concluded that I must have loaded the film backwards into the film back. IOW just like I was loading a TLR. WRONG, that had the paper facing the lens, not the film. duh . . .

Example2, The Hasselblad shutter mechanism has to be cocked to remove/install the lens. And if the mechanism on the lens gets tripped with the lens off the camera, you have to cock it, or you will NOT be able to mount the lens.

ETC.

Yes, I have a Bronica (S2) and a friend of mine has an Hasslebad (spelling intended !) IMO the bronica is way more foolproof when changing backs, lenses, etc. But it has a lower "reputation" ?

I often wondered what part of the price of Hassies or Leicas was only justified by good marketing of reputation ?

Paul

A Hassie has a leaf shutter I believe so this isn't as much of an issue if you went that route.

The SQ series uses leaf shutters also, as do the ETR and GS-1.

I often refer to the SQ series as being a "Hasselblad-like" camera because its operation is essentially identical. When you press the shutter button, the leaf shutter, the lens stops down, the mirror and auxiliary shutter rise, and the leaf shutter opens. When you advance the film, you also cock and reopen the leaf shutter, open the aperture, and lower the mirror and auxiliary shutter.

Aside from the lack of an instant return mirror, one of the most noticeable things about the SQ series is that it's impossible to remove the lens AFTER taking an exposure but before advancing the film. This interlock is there to prevent you from effectively opening the film wide to light.

One key difference between the later Bronicas and the Hasselblad is that Bronicas use an electronically-timed Seiko leaf shutter that should theoretically never go out of time. I know mine are all within 1/6 stop of spec. Try that on a Hasselblad that hasn't been serviced in 20 years. Even bare-bones SQ-B needs a battery to operate the shutter.

The Z/D/S/S2/C/EC all have focal plane shutters. Aside from having an instant return mirror, they also allow you to remove the lens at any time-just like a huge 35mm SLR.

I think I once cranked a roll through an elderly Hasselblad without return mirror, but I didn't get hooked. - The C220 isn't among the cameras that would turn me on, but I am quite content owning a C330 and a C33, which have cranks that also cock the shutters on most lenses and the 330 has a 2nd trigger where it would be on a 'blad. Mamiya TLRs seemed to be the budged system back in the 80s. Since I shot mainly B&W I appreciated not having to compose through my red & orange filters.

With about $1K to burn I'd complete that system, feel done with MF shopping and shoot till the kit falls apart. I can't & won't comment on lenses. But will "Zeiss" make a huge difference if you are daring to handhold 1/125sec on flatbed scanned Tri X?

IDK where you want to be going, final kit wise. - You admittedly can't mount a digital back on a TLR (which is a pity!). If you really love 75/80mm lenses to death: have you pondered a Rollei (clone?) instead, to get rid of the Mamiya's bulk? - They are light!

Rollei 6000 series cameras are like Hasseblads in many ways (6x6 SLR, Zeiss & Schneider lenses, leaf-shutters, interchangeable backs), except they handle better (for me anyway) and have better features and automation for the same price. The 6008 line is excellent, and is within your budget for a camera and 80/2.8 lens.

Since you say you are looking for "something different" to your mechanical 6x6 Mamiya, the automation (with manual over-rides, of course) of the Rollei SLR sets it apart from the mechanical Hasselblad 500/501 line.

The Rollei 6008AF is over your budget, but it was the first 6x6 camera with autofocus (and there's only been one other since, the Rollei/Sinar/Leaf Hy6); I include this information since this was one of the questions you asked.