10D versus 1Ds mkII... my thoughts and a question...

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by john clark, Nov 27, 2008.

  1. Tonight my wife brought home one of the 1Ds mkIIs from work, and I thought I'd have a play. I wanted to see how
    much of a gap there is between the 6 year old 10D and the 3 year old-ish 1Ds mkII. AF performance is something
    I'm keen to improve on in my next camera and I wanted to see if the 1Ds mkII was noticeably better than the 10D
    for indoors handheld shots of my 2 year old son in lowish light levels. It was a bit better but not the night
    and day difference I expected. Also, I found the interface a bit confusing compared to the relatively
    straightforward 10D controls. Would I pay the extra for a 1Ds mkII over a 5D? Probably not, all things
    considered, but that's just me...

    Anyway, one of the things that struck me was how much more usable ISO 800 and above was on the 1Ds mkII than the
    10D. What I'd like to know is whether I can expect this performance or more from the forthcoming 5D mkII. IQ on
    the 1Ds mkII was very very good, by 10D standards, so I have high hopes of the 5D mkII.

    Thanks,

    John
     
  2. Some high ISO still samples and some video clips from the 5DMkII appear in this article:

    http://www.bebbblog.com/index.php?link=94
     
  3. The 5D II should destroy the 1DsII in all imaging aspects, almost as much as the difference from the 10D to the 1DsII. Heck it should be superior, in image quality, to the 1DsIII.
     
  4. zml

    zml

    The 5D II should destroy the 1DsII in all imaging aspects, almost as much as the difference from the 10D to the 1DsII. Heck it should be superior, in image quality, to the 1DsIII.
    As a 1Ds2 and 1Ds3 user who had a chance to shoot with a production 5D2 all I can say is keep dreaming. It would be nice to be able to get a 1Ds3 class camera for $3K but we are not there yet.
     
  5. Michael, that is not the opinion of several other pros who have used the 5D MkII.

    http://jeffascough.bigfolioblog.com/weblog/post/77255

    And of course Vincent Laforet, to name just two.

    John, it does appear that the 5D MkII does give better IQ than the 1DS MkIII (even Canon say so) so if you are not interested in build quality and superior AF and frame rates then the 5 looks like the camera for you.

    Take care, Scott.
     
  6. Time marches on, and so does technology. I'm guessing that even an XS would be a substantial and worthwhile upgrade from a 10D. I've got a 20D and I definitely feel an upgrade urge coming on.
     
  7. JVW said ... "I've got a 20D and I definitely feel an upgrade urge coming on."

    A couple of days ago my wife asked "what do you want for Christmas"?

    It sure ain't my two front teeth!
     
  8. "The 5D II should destroy the 1DsII in all imaging aspects"

    Nice dream...Maybe the image quality will be superior to 1DsMkII, but the exposure system (witch affect image quality) is no match to a pro body . Canon allready loose some customers vs Nikon due to this policy, and will loose more..., if they don't understand the market demand. We want a true pro body, for that mutch money !
     
  9. Paul,

    That is not right,

    Are you saying the 5D MkII can't take properly exposed pictures or that you can't use the various metering options, exposure options and compensation options to get you a correctly exposed file? Besides if you shoot RAW you have almost B&W film type exposure latitude anyway! Certainly no reports from the various people who have now used one have suggested any kind of exposure problems.

    The 5D MkII will not destroy the image quality of the 1DS MkIII but it does, apparently, surpass it. And this should be no surprise, it is basically the same sensor with an extra year of R&D thrown at it.

    Take care, Scott.
     
  10. I'm a wedding photographer...And flash exposure is a desaster in all cameras using 35 zone metering system , from EOS300 (film) to 50D. I use flash in aprox 95% of my photos... And I thinking more and more to swich to Nikon...
     
  11. This is all good news. To continue my thoughts on the 1Ds mkII, the most surprising things for me were (a) how comfortable it felt (as a bigger camera than the 10D), (b) the awkward positioning of the viewfinder when held using the built-in vertical grip (it's too low for my liking) and aside from the difficulty of the UI as previously mentioned, (c) the fact that it doesn't appear to be noticeably better constructed than the 10D - I expected it to be obviously sturdier but then I never found the 10D wanting in that regard. Sure, weather sealing and all is very nice, but I expected a bit more.

    All this said, the viewfinder was better (but, again, only marginally - it's bigger and a tad brighter but not by anything like the margin some people had led me to believe) and it's a much more responsive beastie - no undue delays on startup and its RAW shooting speed was more than enough for my needs. In fact, it feels almost as responsive as my EOS 3, but not quite (despite allegedly being much more so - bizarre!)

    So, in a way I have enormously high hopes for the 5D mkII - I've established that the build-quality thing is (for me) not really an issue, as I expect the 5D mkII to be no worse than the 10D which is in turn very close to the 1Ds mkII based on feel, at least - and people are telling me great things about its IQ...

    Well, there you have it: my first 'road test' with a 1Ds mkII. I liked it, but with some reservations, and I'm now much more confident that the 5D mkII (or even a discounted/used mkI) is the next camera for me.

    On that subject, how does the 5D mkI compare to the 1Ds mkII in IQ and handling terms?
     
  12. "flash exposure is a desaster in all cameras using 35 zone metering system"

    Works fine for me* on my 10D and my EOS 3, which are both prehistoric compared to the 5D mkII I'd say.
    What's not working for you in a flash exposure sense?

    * this said, I almost always set the camera to M for flash work, but it seems to work well...
     
  13. Paul,

    I shot weddings for years too, I never had an issue with ETTL on film, the 550EX's worked brilliantly for me, there was an issue going over to digital with the flashes though I never had the problems that some had. But most report ETTL II as being much better.

    However Nikon flashes have always been regarded as superior to Canons, if 95% of my work involved speedlights then I wouldn't have bought Canon to start with. There are an awful lot of wedding pros with Canons though and I can't help but think the 5D MkII is going to increase that number :)

    John,

    I find your observations strangely at odds with my experience. I found the 10D to be a toy compared to the 1 series cameras and the 3 was the noisiest camera ever made! I can't give you any insight into the 5D though cos apart from a brief play with a few I don't have any experience of them. The archives should throw up a lot of comparisons though.

    Take care, Scott.
     
  14. John,
    Eos 3 use 24 zone pro exposure system...

    When you have time to compensate and recompensate flash exposure,or when use large apperture primes without flash, everything may be OK. But when you take 2K shoots/day (at a wedding), and light, places, peoples wearings (black-white) change every second, and is very inportant to catch the moment ...then you need a very acurate flash exposure system. Canon deliver that only in pro grade cameras (1Dxxx)
    50D take beautifull pictures without flash but in dark places , with flash, exposure is erratic.YES if you have time EC will work, but dooing this everytime you loose the right moment...

    I sold my EOS 3 to buy EOS 1v .Exposure was excelent in both cameras (with or without flash) , but 1v focus faster. Now 50D is faster than my 1v....I espect 5dMkII to be mutch faster than EOS 3.
     
  15. Scott,

    And i belive you use only pro grade films(like Superia..etc). I also had no problems using 1v...THAT IS THE REASON i'm so upset now...I love Canon..., but i feel cheated in some way, knowing they can inprove flash exposure but they don't want.
     
  16. "I found the 10D to be a toy compared to the 1 series cameras"

    Hmmmm... certainly not in a build-quality sense - sure, the 1Ds mkII has weather sealing but there's no significant and obvious differences in the actual quality of the construction and materials as one would expect based on what people write. Yes, the 1 series may be more durable in terms of long-term use, but the 10D is (as far as I've always found) a very well put together camera, solid, reliable and certainly the difference in construction is nowhere close to being enough to classify it as a 'toy' in comparison.

    One thing that strikes me (and always has) is that people have a tendency to exaggerate the small differences in things on specialist forums and sites- take high-end audio as a case point. The same appears to be true of things like the build quality comments. Anyway, take this with the caveat that it is based on a small play with a 1Ds mkII rather than a long working relationship (as I have with the 10D).
     
  17. for low light the 5D is awesome, for daylight my 1Ds is awesome and I like the colors and contrast better. my cents thoughts, and my 1D when the subject is moving hardly misses a shot, and it ain't the photographer cause I suck. That is why I practice all the time. That is not to say that the 5D is a slouch. I don't look at charts, I look at my monitor and what is printed from said monitor.
     
  18. >>flash exposure is a desaster in all cameras using 35 zone metering system<<

    Not if you know your system and/or ask for it to read your mind.

    You assume that the Nikon system is better - a look that the Nikon forum brings about complaints about that system as well.

    No matter what brand we speak of, people who get bad results and ALWAYS blame the system they are using can't be taken too literally. It's a common litany: "hey, my pictures sucks, must be the camera...must be the camera's flash...must be....".
     
  19. Giampi, if that's all that you understand ....I'm sorry. Probably some peoples standards are higher (or lower) than others...Here (on Photo.net), we try to share sincerely some experiences ( good or bad) not to blame one brand or another, hopping that someone will listen and make for us, better cameras with less problems. To asume that someone is "less gifted" than another , is rude. I hope we all share the same passion, and that's the reason we are here.
     
  20. Later models don't necessarily yield better quality images. My 10D has very slightly better low-light performance than my 5D and renderes very slightly better shadow detail. I don't know how it would compare to the 5DII.
     
  21. zml

    zml

    And of course Vincent Laforet, to name just two.
    I tend to arrive to my own conclusions based on my personal experience while treating the opinions of others merely as a starting point. Having said that, I don't know Laforet from Adam, but he seems to be heavily sponsored by Canon which makes my BS meter show a pretty high reading.
     
  22. Re high ISO you may checkout that side: http://www.prophotonut.com/2008/09/20/canon-5d-mk2-high-iso-pictures/
    Regards Axel
     
  23. Still love my 10D. It's now my point and shoot. It's got about 40,000 frames on it from weddings. Built well. Light
    compared to the pro bodies. Perfectly useable 800 to 1600 iso for street work conversions to B&W. Nice small
    Raw file sizes. Great having 600 Raws on a 4gb card. I'd love a 10D Mk2 with a full frame 6mp sensor and 14 or 16
    bit raws. Imaging clean 6400 iso and 12 to 14 stops DR. Sometimes, like for handheld, low shutter speed street
    work, 6mp is enough. Especially after running through Silver Efex.
     
  24. I have to concur with Dave. I've had the upgrade curiosity hit me with a couple of new cameras since I bought my 10D back in 2003. Then I go back and look at the 12X18 inch prints I've made using the 10D, and I realize I have no real need to upgrade. Exhibition jurors from The Aperture Foundation in New York and from the Muse Gallery in Philadelphia seem to agree - my 10D is good enough. I am, however, salivating over the soon-to-be-released 24/1.4 L II lens; I currently have no L lenses and have shied away from the original incarnation of the 24/1.4 due to sketchy user reviews. If my 10D were to die today, I'd replace it with the Rebel XSi. I don't need the newest or most expensive equipment to produce gallery show quality images. I also achieve excellent results using the Canon flash system. I think alot of people upgrade so frequently, that they never get the opportunity to learn and use any particular camera to its full advantage.

    Michael J Hoffman
     
  25. Well said Michael. Considering what I see from some of the forums and people with gigapixels.....I don't think we need any more high mp shots of cats.
     
  26. See my comments about awful 5D autofocus in thread "Canon EOS 5D Mark II versus Nikon D3." If you're a photographer who rarely places a moving subject at the center of the frame, the 5D is not for you.
    --David
     
  27. I saw a comment about build quality. Let me say that the amateur bodies are stronger than they appear to be. An XTi I had took two hard smacks onto concrete and kept on going without a problem.
    But the strength of the pro bodies is not in the finish, but in the materials with which they are constructed.
    I think a crush test with a 2-ton truck would show you the difference. A Rebel body or a 40D would make a scrunchy noise as the tires rolled over, a 5D might add a pop sound as some of the framework broke. A 1D and all its line would make a much smaller sound, possibly just a thump as the tire rolls over it without completely crushing it--possibly a 1D series might still be whole and capable of working.
    But I don't really know--anyone want to volunteer some bodies for a test?
     
  28. Charles,
    1D bodies break when dropped on concrete. They weigh more but carry more momentum, they are tough but not indestructible! The magnesium splits. Oh lenses and flashes snap off them too.
    But in general they do well.
     
  29. Scott,
    I've banged 1D bodies around quite a bit, haven't lost one yet, but I've seen the lens popping off on others' accidents.
    My first pro body as a student many years ago was a Hasselblad 1600F. It was knocked off a stage, fell four feet to a concrete floor and the film back and lens popped off. It all went back together and worked fine.
    I should add that I put L brackets on my cameras since my falls in Europe. I had a quick release bracket on the XTi and it took the hits first saving the body from scrapes.
     
  30. Well maybe the floor in Puerto Rico airport is special! I have split one body, broken one flash and split in half two lenses. The lenses break in half on purpose and are easily fixed by Canon, they put a plastic spacer in the 16-35 and the 24-70 (and I expect others) as a weak point. My cameras have been dropped many times, but never by me, (that has tempted fate!).
    In general though they are very robust, I don't lovingly molly coddle my gear, it travels with me a lot, usualy in my hand not in a bag and the resistance to wear and tear is one of the reasons I would only get 1 series cameras.
    Take care, Scott.
     
  31. That must have been quite a disaster. I've been there, through the San Juan airport. I recall now snapping the flash off one of mine around 1999 from the top of an EOS-1 when the camera wasn't secured and I had to stop my car suddenly.
    If I'm working I prefer the 1D series to all others, but Ill play with any body just to see what it can do--same for a lens.
     

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