Help? I shot my first wedding and I'm being threatened?

<p>Hopefully that will be the end of it for you David. Don't let it put you off. You have talent so get out there and put it to good use.</p>

<p>John</p>

<p>All in all, you had a good learning experience. Ive watch the TV Judges for several years (now retired) and you _did_ have a contract. Judges in Small Claims court, act the part of Lawyer and Judge for both sides. They will get the full story out of both parties, and uphold Verbal contracts. No Judge would have made you produce more than what you wanted, with this verbal contract. You would have won, you could still take them to court, and ask for payment for the images they demanded that went beyond your verbal contract. Most cases we see handled in small claims, are against a Photographer who promised things and never delivered them. No Photos, a year, two years after the wedding. Terrible images, out of focus, blurred, poor color, videos that include things which never should be in them or not delivered... To most of the Judges like Judy or Brown, and others, they would hold what you did up as an example of what should be done in such a contract, even if you only gave them 80 images or so... The reason they may have wanted the rest so much, was because what you first gave them was better than they expected, where it was better than the quality of Pro, photos they had in their home... But, they should have PAID you for the additional work you did.<br>

When I did wedding photography, my contract gave the couple a Wedding Album, with 20 8x10s in a White, and any above that, they had to pay an additional price per image. <br /><br /> Using film, would always take about 200 all keepers, with my experience it usually meant 3 our of 100 were rejected... (That boosted my profit) We managed the Wedding Photos, like some Wedding Planners do today. Even though I did, most guests never realized a professional was there. Dressed like one of the Wedding Party, and was unobtrusive, talk to the person marrying them, to find out what was allowed during he Ceremony or not and never violated the rules. Went to the Brides home before the wedding, to the wedding, and reception. Staying until the B&G left the reception. Then the B&G usually ordered an album for both parents, and a smaller one for each of the wedding party, which were duplicates of the B&G album. <br /><br />Now that Ive retired, always take photos of friends or relatives weddings and give them to them as a Wedding Gift. It always surprises me, to find the Pro they are paying, following me around trying to get the same poses and angles they see me going for, it makes me wonder why they call themselves a Pro... Then, several times the B&G feel mine are much better than what they had to pay to get. Back in my day, went to school at NYI of Photography two years. Then apprenticed with a Professional for two years, before considering myself a Professional... </p>

<p>Hi David,<br /> I went through a very similar event myself at the end of June. Basically, I was asked to shoot my best friends wedding. I was clear on the following:<br>

<br /> - I am inexperienced, but have taken a 1 day Wedding Photography course as primer for me to at least understand the basics required of me on the day.<br /> <br /> - No guarantees. I cannot guarantee that I will get every shot, and I cannot guarantee that all shots will be perfect.<br /> <br /> I'm trying to start a small photography business that offers photography services for various different things including Weddings. So, for me, the experience was invaluable as a foundation for experience, and my best friend knew that, though he insisted on paying me for doing it.<br /> <br /> I went through ALL the preparation in terms of meeting up with my best friend and showing him a list of potential shots I could try and get on the day. Over a few weeks he and his bride whittled these down to around 20 must-have shots, and listed the different guests they'd like group shots taken of.<br /> <br /> I must admit, that the thought of doing my first wedding shoot was daunting. So for me, I wanted to be prepared with my equipment, so, I spent spent some of my hard earned cash and bought myself the following:<br /> A Nikon D80 DSLR, a 24mm f2.8 Wide-Angle Lens, a 50mm f1.4 Prime Lens, a BlackRapid Camera Strap, Lens/Sensor Cleaning Kit and a new Camera Bag. Basically, a total of nearly £500 worth of additional equipment.<br /> <br /> So anyway, the day came around and I got to the venue early enough to capture shots of the Ceremony Room being prepared. Once I'd got these shots and I was very happy with them, I suddenly felt like I was in the ZONE and ready to go for all the rest of the photos for the day.<br /> <br /> For the Ceremony itself- I was told I was not allowed to move around too much and distract the guests. So basically, I was told to choose a fixed position that would allow me to get the best shots of the Bride and Groom, so I did as I was told and got (what I thought) were brilliant shots of both the B&G.<br /> <br /> We moved on to the group shots, and captured these as best as I could. Though I ignorantly realised half way through that the the guests had their back to the sun, while I was facing it. I took a moment to go through the shots I'd taken by looking at the LCD on my D80, even zoomed into the shots to confirm if I'd captured any sun spots/glare - but the photos looked fine to me, so I continued.<br /> <br /> I then finished up and took the shots of the first dance, and the B&G asked me to call it a day. I had a drink and relaxed after a very day, and decided that I'd review my shots when I got home - this is where the disaster began!<br /> <br /> All the shots were brilliant except for the Group Shots. I suddenly realised that there a sort of red glare on the entire shot, harsh shadows from very hard light. It was the same for every* shot literally. I scoured the internet for hours to find tutorials on how to correct this through PS, but everything I tried just wasn't good enough. At this point, I should have just been honest from the outset and told the B&G straight up, but again, my ignorance told me to work on the photos to see how far I could correct them.<br /> <br /> Anyway, 3 weeks later, I posted all the shots on my website in a password protected gallery for the B&G to see. I received a phone call an hour later from the groom saying that his bride thinks the Group shots are absolutely terrible, while all the other shots are just 'OK'. He requested me to send through the *.RAW versions of these files to him to compare to my edits which I was a bit reluctant to do, but thought it was wise as I was aware of how badly affected the photos were.<br /> <br /> Suddenly, his bride started sending me threatening, horrible messages on Facebook saying things like 'I've ruined her life', and 'How can you call yourself his friend after what you've done!'. They then demanded all *.RAW images from me as they lost all hope in my editing skills and wanted to go to a 3rd Party editor to edit ALL the photos!? - The Bride and Groom were clear that it was just the group shots.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I'm now in a situation where I had decided to give the B&G all the *.RAW images just to get them off my back, and the messages have stopped (for now). I've repeatedly told them both about the fact that I'm inexperienced and provided no guarentees, but they're not listening to me.<br /> <br /> The Groom paid me £200 for my work - I guess I should be thankful that I got paid something. But now, he's demanding this money back which he claimed was to cover my expenses. In total, I spent the £500 on equipment and at least £150 on travel to visit the venue before the big day and after, so £650 in total. The B&G seem totally oblivious to this and I am furious that I've been treated this way, though I understand their position to.<br /> <br /> I have no idea if I can do or say anything about this whole thing to them, or whether or not I should just keep schtum and say nothing at all. So in short, I totally understand what you're going through.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Max--I am unclear what the exact problem is on your group shots. Can you post an image without showing faces?</p>

<p>Perhaps we can help you.</p>

<p>As for the situation--I would personally give the money back just to end things, as well as the files, and call it done unless you can find a way to reasonably edit the problem images. And call it a lesson learned.</p>

<p>I usually agree with Nadine's opinions, but if I were Max, I would keep the money. If you were a professional photographer, I would refund everything. It doesn't sound like you are, nor like you presented yourself as one.</p>

<p>You had a friend. He is now making unreasonable demands.</p>

<p>It seems safe to me to assume that the friendship is over.</p>

<p>In this case, I'd walk away. With the money. There is no reason they should be treating you like this. They don't sound like very good friends to me. While this might have been a painful revelation, better to find out now than later.</p>

<p>Since Max is not a professional, why should he lose even more money on this bad experience?</p>

<p>Eric</p>

<p>Eric--because whenever there is money involved, especially among friends or former friends, hard feelings get even harder. IMHO, no one needs that.</p>

<p>Nadine, I agree with Eric in this case. Giving them the money back will not fix the friendship. That's done and over unfortunately. It's rule #1, refer friends to someone else and go as a guest.</p>

<p>The second thing is, lets say that the photos were decent but just not what an experienced pro might produce. I realize I'm making a huge assumption but most of the time, people "hire" a friend because they want to save money and put no value on the photography until the day they get the shots back. They hope they get sirloin steak for the price of hot dogs. Then they realize that "your camera" isn't what takes nice pictures, the skill and experience of the photographer does.</p>

<p>So these people tried to save money and rolled the dice. They lost and now are making demands. The second he refunds the money, he's admitted fault (IMHO, his only real faults were 1, he took money to do this when he was <em>nowhere near</em> ready to do a wedding on his own and 2, he did it for a friend and never should have) and the next thing will be he'll be asked to pay for a 3rd party editor to fix the photos. The demands will likely get worse from there.</p>

<p>Draw up an agreement that you are handing over the original files and that this is the end of your responsibilities. That they can no longer come to you for any further work or compensation over this event.</p>

<p>Peter--I'd still refund the money. That way, they can't come after me legally. I assume there wasn't a contract either, but I could be wrong. Without a contract and no money exchanging hands, I doubt that they could make good on any demands. I didn't recommend the refund with the idea that a friendship could be fixed.</p>

<p>Point taken. There's certainly no 'perfect' fix in situations like this.</p>

<p>Firstly, I'd like to thank you Nadine, Eric and Peter for your advice so far, I'm so glad I could join somewhere where I can get constructive feedback on my situation.<br>

<br /> Nadine, I'll try and get one of the photos up at some point today for everyone to see what happened - it isn't pretty whichever you look at it unfortunately.<br>

<br /> Sadly, I've been torn on that same subject of the money in same way Nadine and Eric have discussed it. He's my best friend, and I guess in hindsight I agree with Peter's point 2: '<em>he did it for a friend and never should have' </em>because look where it got me. It was clearly something I thought early on would be mutually beneficial, where I'd gain experience/testimonial, and he and his bride would gain a good set of photos. I made the mistake of not treating it like a business transaction, in that I had not drawn up a contract clearly stating where my responsibilities as a the photographer, and his responsibilities as the client begin and end. I simply made the blind mistake of thinking 'oh it's for a friend, so everything is very relaxed'.<br>

<br /> Eric is completely correct - I never presented myself as a professional from the very start, so I <em>still </em>strongly feel that the demands being made are unreasonable. Peter also mentions<em> '</em><em>I'm making a huge assumption but most of the time, people "hire" a friend because they want to save money and put no value on the photography until the day they get the shots back.'</em> - which I think is much more of a fact that an assumption, and is clearly what has happened here.<br>

<br /> I've agreed to give the full £200 back and all of the original shots, but before I do it, I wondered if I may ask 2 questions:<br>

<br /> - I agree with Peters point on writing up an agreement relinquishing myself of any further responsibility after handing over the photos (but I'm also now going to be giving back the money as well). Can anyone give me any guidelines on what such an agreement should contain or what I should write in it?<br>

<br /> - I want to make sure that this never happens again, and I would like to write up a contract for any future photography services I supply. Can anyone provide any guidance on what may need to be written in such a contract or if there is a suitable template out there?<br>

<br /> My friend wants to keep the friendship going considering we've known each other for 9 years, and to be fair the bride has been channelling her feelings through him mostly. I sort of wish he would have stood up to her, because he's constantly said that he understands where I'm coming from entirely, yet the random messages were still coming through from the bride on Facebook.</p>

<p>Thank you all again, you're all fantastic and I value your feedback very much.<br /> Max.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Max--I will e-mail you later. I have an example of such a contract (agreeing to end a disagreement).</p>

<p>As for regular contracts, do your research. There are some you can get for free online but of course, the question of the contracts being any good is a concern. I use a variation of a template I purchased.</p>

<p>How you handle trying to keep a tarnished friendship going is entirely up to you.</p>

<p>When you post your example, remember to block out any faces. I'm just interested in seeing the 'red glare'.</p>

<p>Do NOT send them all the photos!! Never!! If they're mad, as it certainly sounds like it, they'll use the bad throw -away shots to flame you.<br>

Send them this - Digital photography has opened the door to capturing unlimited images of a wedding. As you can imagine that includes the good and the bad. I carefully go through all the images captured and filter out the blinkies, blurries, and anything unflattering to the bride, groom, and guests. I then process the edits on the ones that are released to the gallery. Anything shot that didn't make the gallery did not meet my standard of quality and does not get processed for public viewing. If you wanted all of the pictures taken, you should have brought this up before the wedding and I would have told then to find another photographer.<br>

Good luck!</p>

<p>Reading this story/event/nightmare reminds me of a saying I learned is true.</p>

<p>"If you loan a friend $20 and you never see them again.....it was worth it."</p>

<p>Look to peoples actions to determine their character. You now know their character. Let them fester in their own world and move on. Let it all go and if they do threaten you again, press charges against them.</p>

<p>They are not worthy of your time or company. Sorry friend, at least you know now.</p>

<p>I see this was a year ago, but what was the outcome? I hope that you've learned the MOST IMPORTANT lesson. ALWAYS HAVE A CONTRACT. Friend or not. ALWAYS HAVE A CONTRACT. When there is any money exchanged for services, the details, expectations, guarantees must ALWAYS BE IN A CONTRACT. That being said, give them the detritus photos, who cares? And stop parking cars, your not the parking attendant! </p>

<p>Ed, we never heard from David Ross again. It sort of leaves it up to the imagination. </p>

<p>Hello ya'll! I am here! I did not go away. Yes, I've learned my lesson. ALWAYS HAVE A CONTRACT. Ah ha, and no parking cars! I swear to bleep, I still can not forget that moment; parking a Jaguar while the bride and groom are walking down the aisle! Next month, I am photographing my cousins wedding, all for free this time. No money. No contracts. No expectations. The bride and groom just know I am showing up for the wedding and they asked a few photographers to take photos of their wedding. Nothing official. After what happened before, however, I am still trepidatious. I am building my own website right now and I will only take money for photography work once the client accepts the terms and conditions. I will keep all of you up to date. Thank you for your support, love, and understanding!<br>

David </p>

<p>"No expectations."<br /><br />Really?</p>

<p>Good question. My cousin lives in L.A. and I live in NYC. I was invited to the wedding but I was not sure I could go until recently because of work. The bride's brother is a bona fide professional photographer and is taking the lead. I will just be there for back-up along with a couple of other photographers. Still, nonetheless, I will post photos of my work. </p>

<p>Hi Dave, wow, you came back and are alive. Hadn't been on this thread since March 2014. As far as the second shooter in LA. Being the second shooter kind of takes the pressure off, relax, get the best shots you can. Glad to hear you are OK.</p>

<p>Whoa, this one hit me between the eyes when I went to last page and Nadine was on the top of the page. She is in my photos every time I drag a shutter or pull out the softar filter. David, looks like you learned the lesson. As a Dr. Laura listener from farm country once said, some folks learn from books, some from other people, but some folks have to pee on the electric fence themselves. </p>

<p>This was a very useful thread. I will now update my photography contacts with a clause explicitely outlining my role as a photographer and should the requests from the wedding party deviate too far from this, the contact will be voided with no refunds. Asking the photographer to park the car seems to indicate that the wedding party lost sight of whom they hired. If they can't hire a valet to park the cars, they can downgrade that jaguar rental. </p>

<p>Even after these last few years, this is very difficult for me to let go of. Yes, the Jaguar parking situation was the red flag for me... well, that and the fact they said they just wanted a photographer to take a few pictures here and there, since this was their second wedding and all. Photography? Not so important. Yeah, right... oh, and of course since they expected me to take photos for free since we were FRIENDS! Sure we were.</p>

<p>New to this site, mostly because of this thread which I somehow stumbled upon. Just curious to know, what happened in the end with that story? you sue them? If you have mentioned it somewhere earlier in the thread, tell that too. I will check :)</p>

<p>No, I did not sue them. The groom physically threatened me at my place of employment and I did not want to risk my job over this. I have not seen the bride and groom since this incident and I hope never to see them again. So that's the update. </p>