Close-up and MF

<p>Howdy all. <br>

A touch of background. I really enjoy using my FF DSLR with my 24-85 1:2 macro lens. But I wanted to get back to film and go with 6x6.<br>

So I got a Rollei 6008 pro, mostly because of the built in TTL. My camera just arrived, so I loaded it up and went out for a shoot. Did some shots straight with the 80mm lens and really enjoyed the camera and process - yippee - nice to be back.<br>

Then it was time to put on the 34mm extension tube for some close up work. I composed my shot, but then I felt I was a bit too close, so backed up a few inches and realized I could not focus anymore. I did some experiments and realized that I could only focus when I was from 7 to 8" from the object. In other words the focus range was about an inch. Oops!<br>

OK, I don't think there is anything wrong with the gear. I think I am misunderstanding a fundamental concept of how extension tubes work and closeup shots. I guess I am spoiled with my DSLR macro lens whereby I can move back and forth to compose all I want and have continuous focus from 6" to infinity (leaving the zoom at a fixed focal length). Is it possible to have this kind of close-up flexability with a MF setup? Uber expensive lens? Bellows?</p>

<p>thanks for the help.</p>

With a macro lens, yes.

Easy: trade your Rollei for (or partner it with) a Mamiya RB-67 with 90mm f/3.5L. The bellows focussing

will give you a maximum magnification of about 1:2, and you'll get a full workout every time you take it for

a walk - the savings in gym membership alone will cover its cost in no time.

<p>You simply ran out of focus throw with your normal lens on a tube. That could happen with a DSLR too. As Ellis says, a real macro lens won't have this problem - they have ample focus throw to cover from infinity to 1:2 or in some cases 1:1.</p>

<p>Macro lenses are not necessarily uber expensive in medium format; I guess it depends on the brand, and the state of the used market, but my Mamiya 120/4 1:1 macro cost no more than the cheaper lenses for your Rollei. Schneider made a 90/4 macro lens for the Rollei, if I'm not mistaken.</p>

<p>Thanks all for the info.<br>

I see the Scheiders start at $2300. A bit much for me (by a long shot).<br>

Is there a "inexpensive" macro lens that will work with the Rollei 6008? Even if its an older SLX or SL lens, I dont mind stopping down to meter. I am just not sure what will work. </p>

<p>The simplest way to focus closer is with extension tubes. A macro lens has a longer throw to focus closer, and is optimized for best sharpness at close range, but you can get by with ordinary lenses if you don't magnify too much. 1:4 (1/4th life size) is generally safe. I use 120 mm or longer lenses for closeups with extension tubes. Among other things, longer lenses give you a greater working distance (lens to subject).</p>

<p>Secondly, once you extend the lens to near 1:1 magnification, you can't focus using the lens. You have to move the camera fore and aft to focus. In fact, that's better even before you get to that point. Focusing the lens changes the magnification, hence composition, at close range. You can get by with a simple slider until you get down to 1:1 or so. Then it's better to have a rack and pinion focusing rail.</p>

Focussing closer = adding extension. A lens in focussing mount has a variable amount of extension built in. To have the greatest flexibility, and cover any distance, the amounts of extension you add in the form of tubes has to match the amount of extension built into the lens' mount. If your 80 mm lens has 8 mm extension built in (should be about right), the tube that takes it beyond it's unaided range without leaving a gap would be an 8 mm tube (lens fully extended = lens set to infinity/0 mm extension on a 8 mm tube). Next up then has to be 16 mm (the lens' 8 mm plus the 8 mm tube's 8 mm), followed by 32 mm (8+8+16), then 56 mm, etc.<br><br>It means adding (or removing) tubes a lot (and you need at least 4 tubes for an 80 mm lens), but you can have a seamless focussing range from infinity to 1:1 and beyond this way.<br>Longer lenses have more extension built into their mounts, so the steps are bigger. But you will also need more to get at the same magnification. The Zeiss/Rollei 120 mm macro lens has about 27 mm of extension built in. So you would need a first tube of about that length to avoid gaps, and that tube would take the lens to about (but not quite) 1:2.

<p>I use a Mamiya RB67 whose bellows extension is sufficient to shoot an 11x13.4 cm subject to full frame.</p><div></div>

<p>Beautiful image Mr Chris Waller.</p>

<p>If I remember your requirements, apart from price, you wanted to do hand held macro shooting with a waist level fimder and with in-camera metering. I have done some test shots with a Bronica ETRS and the 100/4 macro I just got. I can go from 1:4 to infinity with the lens alone. I also got an Auto Bellows and the combination of the 100/4 and the bellows gets me pretty close. Bronica made three auto tubes: 14, 28 and 42. I have the 14 and the 28. The 14 allows the 150mm lenses to get closer for portraits. Unless a subject is very close to the ground I would rather use an eye level prism finder and a Speed Grip. If you must shoot hand held then an auto diaphragm is more important than TTL metering (even when using a waist level finder and with no in-camera metering). This is because you can meter separately and add an adjustment for your expousre when you are very close. If your lighting is fairly constant that helps too. Using stop down metering and/or a pre-set lens is not convenient for hand held macro work. </p>

<p>Edward, thanks for the explanation - it helps.</p>

<p>QG, thanks for the info on the Zeiss Macro. I see that extensijon tube+macro lens will give me a good range.<br>

Jeff, you remember my needs quite well, although I did want to shoot 6x6. If I went to 645 I think a lot of problems could be solved - for a lot cheaper. That is still in the back of my mind - but I am not ready to jump yet.<br>

I am lucky enough that a friend has lent me her 500CM kit to play with for a week. No macro lens, but has a wide range of lenses, extenstion tubes (plus a SWC too!). The goal of this exercise is to see if I *really* need TL metering, see if carrying a handheld meter with "cramp my style".</p>

<p>Although you asked about hand-held closeups with MF, you won't find that satisfying very long. MF is ideal for large, sharp prints. You see virtually no grain in a 20"x24" print from a 6x6 negative. However, the "sharp" part is difficult to achieve. Even with a tripod, you will find that pre-firing the mirror is needed to prevent vibrations. The depth of field is very shallow (less than half that of 35mm), so precise focusing is essential. You must be careful that you focus your eye on the ground surface, not through it. Grid lines help in that regard. Finally, even the slightest breeze will move flowers enough to spoil the shot. There's not much you can do about that other than pick the right time of day (morning is best), and/or use a portable wind break - a three-sided box which can also serve as a neutral (e.g., black) background.</p>

<p>If all this sounds fussy, it is. MF is all about being fussy over details and technique. That's why you don't see them at graduations and basketball games (any more). I find that if I don't have to use 35mm (i.e., digital), I take the Hasselblad on my increasingly rare peregrinations.</p>

<p>There are a great deal of options with Rollei gear and closeup - there is the 90 Macro (one of the sharpest lenses in the industry), the 150 on bellows (a wonderful lens, one of my favorites), in fact any lens will go on the bellows. Eric Hiss (Rolleiflex USA) has a number of bellows for sale, and they are cheap. Also, there are reverse-mountings for lenses for extreme closeup - and there is a Rollei booklet which I believe Eric has for free download on macro possibilities. One of the peculiar things is why Rollei went so far into this, but mores the pleasure. </p>

<p>For your situation, the first thing is that you overshot with the 34mm tube. I have all three - 9, 17 and 34, and have only used the 9mm for most closeup work (although I don't do this much). But the 17 is that much closer and the 9+17… you get the drift. At one point, made a chart, and for the 80mm:<br>

<br>

9mm = 18"-3'<br />17mm = 12"-18"<br />26mm (9+17) = 8"-12"<br />34mm = 6"-8"</p>

<p>So you have two options: either get the right tube length (try and trade the 34 for a 9+17?), or get the bellows, and have many more options (although only for in the studio). <br>

Hope this helps. <br>

</p>

<p>Use what you have, handheld or internal, but given a choice, an handheld meter is more useful.</p>

<p>I have an older 205TCC with a built-in spot meter, and a metered 45 deg prism with a center-weighted pattern. Neither works well for closeups. In most cases, you have to point and recompose the shot to use the internal meter, and center-weighted metering assumes you have an "average" scene. Closeups hardly ever qualify as average.</p>

<p>Mostly, I use a Sekonik spot/incident meter in the incident mode. If there is mixed light, I use the spot mode to check for overexposure. Digital is nice because you get an histogram of the exposure, but I'd rather get it right the first time, the old-fashioned way. With film, getting it right has financial benefits too.</p>

<p>The exposure factor is easy to determine from tables, which fit on my smart phone (or printed out). The bellows has a minimum extension of 65 mm. That's a lot, even for a 120 mm Makro. The bellows does have a built-in focusing rail. I put a Really Right Stuff plate on it, so it fits my tripod.</p>

<p>Kevin, many thanks for your generous compliment. :)</p>