Clients' Obligation To Provide Dinner

<p>I never mentioned dinner arrangement during the client meeting or put a clause about it in my contract. Yet after close to 100 weddings, I have never been in a wedding where I cannot help myself to the food. Either the couples were kind enough to put me on the seating chart or if not there’s always some seats magically become available because some guests didn’t show up.</p>

<p>Finally last week, the couple didn’t put me on the seating chart for a plated sit down dinner and there’s no seats magically available for me. Not a big deal, I’ll just go to the hotel lounge and order myself a burger. For the money I make over a job what’s a $15 burger that is tax deductible to me? However, the videography who was at least 10 years my junior would have none of it. She gave the couple a earful on how hard she’d worked and should be be fed healthy food. That put the couple in distress and they arranged an extra table for the videographer and me. I didn’t want lump together with the videotog and told the couple if I could just excuse myself for half an hour, I’ll just go get a burger at the lounge. The couple insisted and since the hotel staff was setting a new table, what’s the point of refusing so I obliged.</p>

<p>I ate dinner with the videographer without talking much to her because I wasn’t impressed with her professionalism. Since when was providing vendors with meal an absolute necessity? I hired roofer or contractors before and I never fed them, why are photogs or videotogs different? As long as I was given a reasonable time to go get my own food, I don’t think the couple was under any obligation to feed me. And this happened at a downtown hotel where food was readily available inside and outside of the hotel and not some far flung places.</p>

<p>When I bid the couple good night, I thanked them kindly for the dinner and let them know unequivocally that the dinner was not requested by me. What are you feeling about clients' obligation to provide dinner to videotog or photog?</p>

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<p>What are you feeling about clients' obligation to provide dinner to videotog or photog?</p>

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<p>I have never assumed it obligatory and I do not believe that I have ever commented on the few occasions when food was not provided: there is simply no need to make any comment. In this case I think the Videographer made a very poor business choice. By the same token, although maybe difficult to do, it was probably not the best business choice to avoid conversation with the Videographer, during the meal.<br>

<br />When food was provided for me, I believe I have always adequately thanked the B&G and/or the Parents who provided me the meal.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p>I never expect to be fed and if I am going to eat at all prefer whenever possible to get my head out of the game for a few minutes. Whether it is weddings or professional sports, I am just the hired help. </p>

<p>It is up to me to manage my time and resources so that everything gets covered. If I am lucky enough to have time to eat then that is nice. It is also a kindness when the B & G offer me food. They are absolutely and unequivocally under no obligation to do so. You were right to be embarrassed for the videographer. It sounds to me like her behavior was boorish and unprofessional. <br>

I suppose there are some remote shoots where it would be a good idea to think about food and cover it in advance but they would be few and very far between.</p>

<p>I am sorry you got lumped together with the videographer but it sounds like you handled it admirably. At least you know which videographer NOT to refer in the future. </p>

 

<p>I have an interesting twist to this story. Here in New Zealand I have found that 99% of venue's will feed me for free. After all I can put work their way as well as them putting work my way. So it is in both our interest to build up a friendly relationship with each other. In fact most venues will bend over backwards to make sure I have been feed and supply me with drinks, non alcoholic off course. </p>

<p>I always tell my couples not to bother putting me on their guest list as the venue will feed me anyway. With just one exception. This one venue that I have done a couple of weddings at has a problem with this arrangement. Now this is fine as I don't expect them to have to feed me, however the first time this happened was when the staff got me a plate and cutlery I waited until all the guests have been up and got their meal I then helped myself to a small meal and sat down to eat it. <br /><br /><br />The manageress came marching up and informed me that she would need to talk to the couple about the extra charge. I insisted that she didn't bother the couple but instead just let me know how much and I would happily pay. She ignored my request and marched straight up to the couple at the top table and made such a big deal over it that I was embarrassed. I offered the couple to pay but they said it was covered as some guests hadn't shown up and they weren't impressed with the manageress either and apologised to me.<br /><br /><br>

The second wedding at this venue, I sat down on an empty table by the bar in view of the manageress and brought out my pack lunch and proceeded to eat it. Okay I wasn't being very diplomatic but had asked her at the previous wedding if this was acceptable and she told me it was fine. <br /><br />She was also very anti social and talked down to everyone and treated her staff like dirt. I am glad to say that she has since been giving the sack and I am looking forward to my next wedding at this venue.<br /><br />I agree with you that we should not be expected to be fed.<br>

<br /><br /> </p>

Seems like the couple can do whatever they wish to do. If you are worried that they won't feed you have a backup plan. I carry some fruit. A few energy bars. Thats all you really need.

 

I'm actually not to fond sitting with the guests. I'm more into what I need to do to create some photo's and to go over the list of shots that the couples want. A lot of couples want to go to each table and get photos of everyone at each table.

 

I'm a diabetic and I need to eat. I don't depend on the couples to serve me.

 

The video lady is a brat. The couple may have been "Fed-up," with her so they Fed her.

<p>Like all the above, I never expect to be fed, nor would I ever stipulate it in my contract. I carry some snacks, water and whatever else I may need, in my bag (or in the car). On the day of, however, I always end up being served almost by force :) or made to sit and eat, either by the wedding coordinator, or by the couple themselves.</p>

<p>I will play the Devil's Advocate... it is in our contract that we be fed. Now I don't care what the meal is (free vendor meal or if I am included in the "actual" meal). And here's why... when we where first starting out, a couple of us were shooting a nice wedding at a nice country club. Our start time was 11am and thus we arrived at around 10:30 so we had breakfast somewhere around the 9:30 am mark. It's now 7pm and dinner time. We are both hungry... we have been going all day. So I ask the coordinator if we can have a meal. The coordinator asked if I was on the meal ticket and I said not that I was aware of! And thus was told I couldn't have a meal (let alone two). I inquired about the several guests that hadn't shown up, wasn't there an extra meal there? Well, those meals needed to be saved in case the guests did show up. OK, fine. Can I order a burger from the Country Club? I was asked if I was a member... I wasn't and as such wasn't allowed to purchase food. So here we are, a good 9 hours after having anything to eat (except maybe something like a banana) after having worked a wedding. Fortunately there were two of us and I just sent the other photographer into town (about 10-miles away) to grab us a Subway. Every since this incident, we have it in our contract to be fed, whatever that meal is (actually my wife even prefers the "kids" meal, usually chicken fingers and fries). In over 10-years I have only had one bride's mother complain about the policy. And I simply said then we probably aren't the photographers for you. The other 99.999% simply think it is common courtesy. And it helps avoid any unnecessary conflicts. A good number of brides simply assume the venue is going to feed us without any intervention on their part. And around here anyway, that just isn't the case. As to us being the "hired help", yes, we are there to provide a service. But it is a very intimate service, unlike most other service providers. We simply don't just drop of the cake or or flowers. We spend a lot of time getting to know our clients, interacting with our clients on a very personal and emotional level. If I hire a contractor to do work on my house, you can bet whatever you want to bet that the workers get regular breaks/meals, even if they bring their own meals. I don't get to stand up during a Catholic Ceremony and say hey, I have been on the clock for two straight hours so I am taking a 15-minute break. Weddings don't work like other jobs!</p>

<p>I'll play devil's advocate back.<br />I'd reckon that there would be very few, if any Clients whom a Photographer gets to know <em>on a personal and emotional level</em> that would not have included a meal <em>without</em> such being stipulated in the contract.<br />On the other hand I'd reckon that some, perhaps quite a few of those Clients who consider themselves to be known <em>on a personal and emotional level</em> with the Photographer, could consider it insulting to be stipulated to, as what actions on their behalf that relationship should comprise. They might not complain about such being written in the contract: that still does not mean that they would not be affected by it.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p>I'm with John on this subject. </p>

<p>It is in our contract to be fed ... preferably a hot meal if possible. Not only that, if the itinerary allows, I often arrange to be fed right after the wedding party so we can trail them if they visit tables, or take them outside for sunset pics while their guests eat. BTW, I always try to arrange my plate nicely and then take a picture of it at the table before eating. </p>

<p>Hundreds of weddings later, not one raised eyebrow or complaint ... clients are always gracious and accommodating and we are appropriately thankful.</p>

<p>- Marc</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Again, this is a classic example of how taken for granted we are. There is a lack of respect and common courtesy in our field. We have the easy access to iPhones and point and shoots to blame for this.</p>

<p>We all saw what happened to the music industry with technology and the uncontrollable use of the internet. The photography industry is next! Let's hope the Gods stay on our side for once.</p>

<p>That said, I think clients should be educated on certain aspects of a wedding day. They need to know that you are by their side the whole day and that you are only human. Do they honestly think you can work a 14 hour day without so much as a glass of water?</p>

<p>But there is a nice way to accomplish what you want. This is why there is a consultation before the big day. Use that as a way to make things clear. Let them know that you are not hired to hold their flowers if they think they're too heavy (a big pet peeve of mine btw). I'm not paid to hold your flowers or replace the spot in my bag with their water bottle over my $2000 lens.</p>

<p>The truth is, you need your energy in order to chase after the bride and groom and if they cannot appreciate that, then maybe they're not the right client for you. Is that not all where we'd like to be? To be able to be able to pick and choose who we shoot? LOL...</p>

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<p>That said, I think clients should be educated on certain aspects of a wedding day. They need to know that you are by their side the whole day and that you are only human. Do they honestly think you can work a 14 hour day without so much as a glass of water?</p>

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Sorry but I respectfully disagree. If you work in an office, do you really expect your employer to buy you lunch. As a professional, the photographer and videographer should plan on providing their own lunch or snacks.

 

If the client decides to pay for your lunch, then that should be appreciated but in way should it be expected. I view this was a false sense of entitlement.

 

Just my opinion.

<p>There are two ways to look at this.<br>

<br />1) You supply your own lunch and be prepared to purchase a meal as well. This is an expense that needs to be added in to your pricing. Now if the couple supply you with lunch or Dinner or both then you are on the winning side.</p>

<p>2) You stipulate in your contract that you need to be feed and watered, therefore you shouldn't include anything in your pricing for this.<br /><br />I personally opt for option 1) as 99% of the time I am feed and watered by the couple or the venue anyway so therefore I am on the winning side 99% of the time and my contract doesn't dictate to the couple what they must do.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I'm with Marc. I put it in my contract that both my assistant and I must be fed dinner. If I had to leave to get dinner, I would risk missing a toast or something else. I do bring my own snacks and lunch, but often weddings are 12-14 hour days for me, plus long drives, so I cannot possibly be dragging a cooler full of food along into the reception sites. I eat lunch in my car, or grab a few handfuls of almonds during downtime, but that is not enough to keep me going until 11pm. When I eat, I do not sit with guests, usually I am seated at the bar or in a side room in close proximity to the guests so that I can keep tabs on the events going on. I've been shooting weddings for well over ten years and this has never been an issue, and pretty much every reception site, or caterer in the state knows this is how we should be treated, along with the DJ, band members and videographers. </p>

<p>A meal and a cheque on the day were the two main things I always stipulated in my contract. An army marches on it's stomach and wedding photography can be very physical. I don't need the Pomegranate-Currant Glazed Short Ribs with Wasabi Spaetzle, but I need something decent.<br>

I spent many years as a crew guy on film sets. We always got fed well, often better than the actors. </p>

Working in an office, and photographing a wedding are a poor comparison.

We are going to be at a place where everyone is served food. It is best to be clear ahead of time,

We have been promised full meals by the couples and served a sandwich by the club. Later

learning the club charged them for us to eat a full meal. So the couple did not get what they paid

for.

 

I photographed a 6 hour wedding back in the spring.

I ate before I started at 2 and worked until 8.

I told the couple not to order me a meal, because it was a tight schedule and I knew inside of the 6

hours, I wouldn't take any breaks unless necessary. I ended up eating at home after while I

downloaded pictures, could have stopped somewhere but chose not to.

 

Longer weddings I ask if there will be a meal provided, explaining that I need to know so I can plan

what to bring with me. There answer is also a clue what they are like.