Kiev 60 wind stroke

<p> Hi, I'm wondering if any Kiev 60 owners/experts could answer me a question - I've had a thorough search for an existing thread, and either my Google skills are slipping or there hasn't been one.</p>

<p> Basically, after putting a test roll through my Kiev 60, the spacing was WAY off. It took 7 strokes to get to the number 1 on the backing paper, then 2 strokes for the second. As far as I can tell, it's because the wind stroke only starts winding the film halfway through - but it DOES start cocking the shutter right away (or at least there's sound and moving cogs on the left side - the black wheel only starts spinning shortly before the film will wind). So rather than being a problem with the winding lever in general, it appears to be just with the film winding mechanism. If it's relevant, the mirror only engages right at the end of the stroke</p>

<p> I've used the 'Kiev 60 Kalibration' site to remove the top of the camera to see if I could eyeball a diagnosis, but it's all too dense there to make out. </p>

<p> So my questions are - has anyone come across this problem?<br>

More relevant to the average user, what SHOULD a 'proper' Kiev 60 wind look/sound like?<br>

Any suggestions regarding a possible fix? </p>

<p> If anyone would like any further information or pictures I'll try to post tehm up quickly</p>

<p> Many thanks for any help - I can't in good conscience resell a camera malfunctioning like this, and it's not possible to return, so a solution would be much appreciated. I've repaired/relubed some 3 FSU rangefinders and 6-odd lenses, but the Kiev seems far more complex than any of them</p>

 

<p> Quick update - looking into the wind mechanism at eye level - </p>

<p> the wedge-shaped piece that rotates with the wind lever, and moves with it through the stroke, only engages with the other half (this being the action that starts the film winding) about halfway. With the lever at zero, it sits at the 10-11 o'clock position. This would be at the 3rd 'layer' of gears etc counting up from the lip of the camera body (lots more layers below)</p>

<p> I'm thinking any fix would involve moving this further anti-clockwise. It's so far down in the mechanism that it seems I'd have to dismantle a large chunk of it. Not too confident...</p>

<p>I had a Kiev 60 recently as well as years ago. I sold my first one to buy something else, the second superceded by a Norita 66. This info. may not apply to your camera if there are mechanical issues with film advance mechanism. I used my Kiev 60 with the following provisos: When loading film place a length of masking tape across the paper backing once film is placed before closing the door, insure that the film is taught and spools don't back wind. Winding the advance lever is very important to advance slowly and deliberately and DO NOT LET THE LEVER SNAP BACK, guide it back to rest with your thumb. The wind mechanism does not like to be machine gunned and will undoubtedly cause damage. The masking tape trick cuts down on bad framing (frames too close or too far spaced). The camera likes to be used in a slow deliberate and contemplative manner, remember you are only getting 12 images make them count, it's not like a memory card with hundreds of digi-images.</p>

<p> That's the thing, I don't even know for sure if it's a mechanical issue with the whole mechanism. I'm really just trying to diagnose if it's an insufficient connection between the throw of the winding arm, and the rotation of the takeup spool. My initial thought was that the winding arm wasn't engaging with *anything* until halfway through its throw, which would probably have been an easy fix. </p>

<p> But the shutter curtain starts going back right at the beginning of the winding arm's movement.</p>

<p> That's why I wanted to know what a correctly operating Kiev sounds like (is there ratcheting noise on both sides, or does the right side only start halfway). Do you happen to remember?</p>

<p>Little OT, but I've always been curious about the Norita 66, namely the f/2 standard lens. How did you like it? How difficult is controlling the depth of field? If you happened to use that lens of course</p>

<p>That doesn't sound right, when you load the film you should see a few dots first and then number 1. You should only do 1 stroke for each frame. I think your Kiev needs service.<br>

I own a Arax 60 (rebuild Kiev 60) for 2 and a half years or so now and I hadn't had a single misfire or problem with it. They are good machines when treated well and have had a decent service. They say some camera's are a dog but the Kiev 60 is a cat, you have to treat is like a cat, gentle and considerate goes a long way with these beasts.</p>

<p>I haven't used the f2 wide open but this is my second Norita, had one years ago, regretfully sold it, recently purchased another, am happy with it. The lens has some haze, once I can budget a CLA on the lens, I'll go ahead. The camera is in nice shape. I was the first to call the seller and promised to buy it for a bargain price if they would honor my pledge over the 'phone. They did honor my being first and commented that they received a dozen calls after mine. I appreciated that they and I stuck by a promise to buy and sell. This is unusual in today's climate. I enclose a drugstore scan from a print done with this camera and lens (f8 at a 1/250?).</p><div></div>

Google "load film Pentacon six". Inch forward in half strokes while loading.

<p>The Kiev60 has no frame spacing mechanism to speak of. The only way the camera measures how much film has been advanced is by counting rotations of the take up spool. The take up spool gets fatter as film builds up on it of course, so frame spacing can <em>never</em> be that accurate, and if the necessary clutch mechanism is slipping....<br>

<br>

The Pentacon 6 OTOH has a proper frame spacing mechanism that uses an independent toothed roller to measure a linear and fixed length of film with every wind-on. When the toothed roller has rotated a fixed number of turns, then it lifts the clutch on the take up spool to prevent further film movement. In short there's no comparison between the way that the P6 and Kiev60 film advance works.</p>

<p> Hmm, shame there's nothing to be done. I've reassembled the top now. Looks like I'll have to wait til I can afford a proper service. </p>

<p> I don't even think it's a problem with the spacing, the roller around the spiral under the frame counter seems to be engaging properly. It's the actual pint where the roration of the takeup spool engages that's off.</p>

<p> Thanks anyway guys</p>