Leica Identification

<p>Hello all,<br>

I recently obtained this Leica camera, and I'm slightly concerned that it is a fake.<br>

Firstly, the serial number is 815845, which, according to cameraquest.com, makes it a 1956 If model.<br>

However, it clearly isn't an If.<br>

In addition, the serial number writing looks a bit off, and there is a PC socket on the top, although I know these were often added by a 3rd party on Leica models that weren't manufactured with one.<br>

As far as I can tell, it looks like a iiif. However, as I said, the serial number doesn't match.<br>

Could anyone please offer any advice/help? <br>

Thank you in advance.<br>

<img src="http://i41.tinypic.com/2076v0g.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="480" /><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/rmn47m.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="480" /><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/28ldiqh.jpg" alt="" /><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/25pi8fo.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p align="RIGHT">4/3/</p>

<p>The serial number is indeed for a 1956 IF, which it is not. I looks more like a IIIa. Also, the serial number looks like it was engraved by hand, which I doubt would be done at Wetzlar.</p>

<p>It's actually a 1939 Leica <strong><em>IIIa</em></strong> serial # <strong>315645</strong> with a poorly placed flash sync and a marred top plate.</p>

<p>Now, somebody either had fun trying to pass it off as a <strong><em>IIIf</em></strong> <br>

(<strong><em>If</em> </strong>doesn't have an RF)<br>

Or it was stolen and they wished to "launder" it...</p>

<p>IIIf?<br>

Not even close.<br>

IIIf(s) have 'flashsync.' It is manifested, physically, by an adjustable ring about the 'upper' shutter speed dial. The two(2) flashsync versions are recognizable by either a "Black Dial" or "Red Dial" around the upper shutter speed dial. The IIIf with a selftimer was 'red dial.<br>

[if you have an original IIIf, RD, ST you probably have a UNIQUE Leica... It might be worth a lot of money.]<br>

This camera was not 'up-dated' at Wetzlar.<br>

I wonder. Did the IIIa have 1/1000 or was that added with the IIIb? I recall the latter but I'll wait...<br>

We'll see...</p>

<p>[if you have an original IIIf, RD, ST you probably have a UNIQUE Leica... It might be worth a lot of money.]<br>

Corrected:<br>

If you have an original IIIf, BD, ST you probably have a UNIQUE Leica... It might be worth a lot of money.</p>

<p>It's definitely a IIIa! I had one for many years, then sold it. I wish that I still had it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I wonder. Did the IIIa have 1/1000 or was that added with the IIIb? I recall the latter but I'll wait...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The Leica IIIa does go to 1/1000 second, which distinguishes it from the Leica III. The Leica III has a high shutter speed of 1/500.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your help! Most appreciated.</p>

<p>Definitely a IIIa, but with a serial number that does look like it has been tampered with. It's hard to think of a legitimate reason for this. I suspect it wasn't to mislead a purchaser about it being a IIIf - the flash sync is clearly third party. Maybe the camera was acquired under dubious circumstances, or perhaps someone wanted to import it somewhere where customs officers were checking serial number ranges?</p>

<p>I agree with Gus. I couldn't see at first what the numbers had been altered from; almost certainly not a fake IIIA, mostly because IIIA was such a popular pre-war model it lacks the rarity required to inspire copying. Unfortunately the after market flash nipple is also common. Is the lens OK? My second favourite SM Leica after the II.</p>

<p>Yes, the lens is in good condition and the camera seems to be functioning well. It feels and sounds like a Leica. I have never encountered a fake Leica before so I have no idea how it would feel using one in comparison to a real Leica.</p>

<p>It's a real Leica all right, but a IIIa with flash sync added. There is no sync adjuster around the speed dial, the R/F focussing control is around the eyepiece and not under the rewind knob, there is a screw head in the centre of the slow speed dial, there is no film type indicator on the advance knob, and the film counter arrow is to the front rather than to the back. If camera body and lens perform well, you have a fine combination for work. Market value won't be much. The orange filter in front of the rewind side R/F window is, I think an ORAKO -- but someone should please correct me if it's an OKARO.</p>

<p>This is pure speculation. Could it be a II from 1932 with a "5" added at the end, or perhaps a I from 1929 with an "8" added at the start, in each case involving an upgrade to a IIIa?</p>

<p>I have a IIIa with the same flash sync arrangement, and I have seen pics of one or two more. Seems as if some craftsman added this flash sync version to a small number of IIIa.</p>

<p>Otherwise, it is quite obvious that someone tried very crudely to change the s/n. </p>

<p>Mukul, as far as I know upgraded models kept their original serial numbers, and I agree that the alteration looks like much cruder work than Leitz would have done. At one point Leica had a serial number checker on the website, which could be used to identify lost or stolen cameras. I don't think this exists any more, but it might have been interesting to try the most likely original numbers and see what came up!</p>

<p>The serial number of a camera never changed, regardless of conversions. I just wondered if, in this instance, the whole serial number is fake or if it merely had a digit tacked on at end or beginning. Speculation, as I said.</p>

<p>My IIIa with a very similar flash sync has a 321xxx serial number, so it looks as if the leading 3 was faked to look like a 8. </p>

<p>You're probably right: 315845 is a IIIa from 1939.</p>

<p>I see it as #315645. The '6' is clumsily worked over into an 8. That still puts it as a 1939 IIIa.</p>