First Wedding Follow Up

<p>Hellooooooooooooooooo AGAIN!<br>

I am back from my first wedding! First off I would like to thank all those from the other thread who took the time to constructively think about a response that would give me confidence, strength and insight to carry out the day. It was crewed up, absorbed and greatly appreciated! Now with that being said..<br>

THE WEDDING WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!!! WOW! What a great day and a huge experience! I had a great time, the B&G had a great time and so did everyone else.<br>

On the interpersonal level, the people level, the connection level and the making everyone believe that I was the official photographer, it was a slam dunk. From the most important people it could possible count from I had nothing but glowing compliments. I was praised and praised without anyone seeing a single shot. And I mentioned that to them. I would say ``wait till you see the photos before you tell me I am great`` which was always followed up with ``No, you did great, the poses were awesome we know the photos will be great``.</p>

<p>On the technical side I did manage to maintain great exposure throughout the day. By checking my camera for every new shot and every other shot in-between I am confident in the exposures, DOF and overall quality. I wasn`t overly creative and stray far from standard shots. But that was the game plan. I didn`t want to get caught up in trying to be so creative that I used up all my time. I did get more shots of the groom and his boys than I did with the Bride and her girls which I wish didn`t happen but it was more a time thing (she arrived late). In fact there were a few things that I wish I had done differently and a few images I wish I had caught, but this was a learning experience and I knew going into it that coming out nothing would be perfect.</p>

<p>Anyhoot lets talk about the day quickly and if you are still reading at this point thank you for your continued interest.</p>

<p>I Arrived at the wedding for 12 to check out the decor and talk with the parents. The wedding took place on the brides parents property. They did a great job with the decorations and it has a nice country feel to it. There was a mash up of Christian and Jewish traditions. I cleaned up a bit and moved stuff around where I knew I would be photographing. There wasn`t much in terms of shoot spots. But there was this great small cabin, glorious blue wall and an amazing field behind the work shed that lead to the best photos of the day!<br>

I started with the groom and his men as the bride was late. We started around 1:10. They were more interested in starting to drink which thankfully the father in law came out and said ``NO``! We did shots infront of the barn and on the blue wall and stairs. Bride showed up around 1:50. Got her going with the girls at the barn and with the boys there was well. There was a great second level perch where I but the B&G with shots of the party below. I then went with the girls to the back field and we had a blast using that gorgeous landscape. The boys followed and we finished up there with the cliche but ever so fun oversized frames!<br>

After this it was time for the ceremony which was the part I was so afraid of as I have no control here over events. I had to react fast, plan ahead and not be so distracting. Luckily the woman conducting the ceremony was AMAZING. She made sure that everyone timed their walk so that I could get the photos. She would tell the couple to look at my camera when they were signing. It was almost like she knew I was a noob and was guiding me through the entire process.<br>

One thing I will say about photographing ceremonies. THEY GO BY FAST! Or maybe this one was the exception but it was no longer than 10-15 minutes. Had I known (we had previously discussed 20-30 minutes) I would have moved a hell of alot faster! But I got all of the essentials and am confident in the shots.<br>

After the wedding it was cocktail hour where I was just to float around and get photos of the different family members. The B&G with them and the candid shots. Candid photography is SOOOOOOO HARD! Def a learning curve there! We did 3 group photos 1. just the boys 2. Just the girls and 3. EVERYONE. Trying to communicate with a crowd is damn near impossible but I am confident from reviewing my camera I got the shot.<br>

The reception was the easiest part for me and wont go into too much detail. Photographed the speeches, which was fun but repetitive. First dance. There was no cutting of the cake. And the dancing afterwards. I finished up the night at about 11pm! Oh ya took some more shots of B&G and party at the reception. Some of my favorite shots there!<br>

In the end I took about 4000 photos, I hope this is enough!!!!! Thinking back I know it wasn`t perfect, I know I missed some shots and didn`t take enough of others. But overall I am very pleased with what did go down, the shots I did take and connections I made with all these great people. I was invited back for the trash the dress photo shoot and I am confident that if I present these photos well to the clients I can expect a continued photographic relationship and hopefully get a few more clients out of this.<br>

More importantly I have this experience under my belt now. I have great insight on what to expect. I made mistakes here and there which was to be expected but now I have those mistakes to learn from. I have the knowledge and the confidence to go forward knowing that yes I can photograph a wedding and I can do a great job. I had fun, my clients had fun and as long as my images meet there expectations- it was a smashing success for a first time wedding photographer.<br>

If you are still reading this THANK YOU for taking the time to do so. And thank you again for your interest in my story and your much appreciated insight, knowledge and support! Please feel free to ask me any question that can get me thinking more about the day to better understand and learn from this experience.<br>

One last thing... I NEED A TELEPHOTO LENS! Time to negotiate with the wife!!!!<br>

I will post photos in a week or so. I have too much editing to do!</p>

<p>Many thanks!<br>

Billy Squire</p>

<p>Well done. Glad your'e happy.<br>

Good luck, take care<br>

Al</p>

<p>Congratulations! Sounds like it went well.</p>

<p>I will suggest a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens. Its probably my second most used lens on a wedding day. My first is a 24-70mm f/2.8 (on FX).</p>

<p>Editing-wise...keep it simple. Color corrections, exposure adjustments, cropping, and straightening.<br /> Also remember, show only your BEST. No out-of-focus, blurry, or oddly posed shots. Look for blinks and open mouths as they are not flattering. If you're not sure, leave it out or post in the critique forums here for ideas. 4,000 photos is alot to go through, so be ruthless with your culling. As far as most Brides are concerned, if it's not in the proofs, it didn't happen. (on rare occasions they are looking for a specific shot you took...make sure things the bride requested are in there!)</p>

<p>That's about it. Hopefully you'll have everything ready for the B&G when they get back from their honeymoon.</p>

<p>RS</p>

Great Day. Now you can treat yourself to an A4 pad and while the whole thing is fresh write down the shoot , and insert the areas to improve , and gold star what went well. Look forward to the shots. Miken

<p>I have never taken 4000 photos at one wedding, normally about 1500 tops, so I would say you certainly took a LOT. Glad to hear it went so well for you.</p>

<p>congrats... I hope you have LR or another editing software - Jeezz 4K I've never shot that many images ever! Heck I was on personal assignement for a month and I only took 3k... at that rate you better save up for a new body as you are going to blow that shutter at that rate... look forward to seeing a few of the best shots...</p>

William, now is actually one of the harder lesser thought about section of wedding photography that most noobs

encounter, post processing. As mentioned above you will really need to cull it down. My mentor used to tell me what

you give the couple should not have more than a single copy of the same pose, so say you took 5 exposures of the

same formal shot, you need to make an executive decision as to which is the best one. Now don't delete the others

(unless they are all blurry) because you never know when they will say oh god my mom hates the way she looks in

this one, do you have another? Then you can go back into your own original stash of unculled shots and can produce

the others. But if you show them all the ones that are acceptably in focus, this will be too many. For a day that long I

usually give th couple between 800-1200 shots and that includes some doubles or triples of selected shots with special

treatments done in post. Many photographers give the couple even fewer.

 

So before you go out buying new lenses get yourself a program like lightroom or aperture before you buy anything

else. You can do a full free trial of lightroom. Upload the shots into the program and review them there. During my

first run through I label ones that are obvious standouts in red and delete ones that are totally out of focus or

unflattering. I label ones that are likely good enough for the couple in yellow. The review of each shot at irst should

probably be no more than 5 seconds. It's a good shot or not, you know that relatively quickly. Shots that are critical

I.e. Kiss shot, even if they aren't great I label as yellow to try to save later. If they are great though they are coded

red. Then I filter for red and yellow labeled shots. I figure which shots of the same poses are best and remove the

label from those that aren't as good. As I go through them again I review them more critically, and un-label many of

the yellow shots. Once I have my basic collection that tells the story of the day well, then I start color correction and

processing.

<p>4000 is a lot of shots, I took 2000 at my first gig and I now take around 1000. It's a growing phase that you'll see your shot count going down as you get better.</p>

<p>The difficult part is to decide how many shots to give to the couple. In that case, you almost have to think for them what's important to them. It's OK to error on the side of caution and give them a little bit more to a point that you are not inundating them with 1000s of shots that are redundant.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hey everyone thanks for the responses and insight! 4000 shots is a lot and I went for as many as possible because of my zero experience in wedding photography. I figured if I max out my shots I will have more photos to work with, edit and narrow down the best. I know that as I become more comfortable in wedding photography I will take less shots knowing that I did it right doing less which will give me more time for more poses.<br>

I understand the thought process of 1 photo per pose but it's always been my policy to give a couple or few of each pose to allow them to choose from. I shot everything in RAW and am editing in photoshop which has been an amazing tool.<br>

In the end I plan on giving the couple all the good photos from the day plus every photo will be in color and black and white with a special edit folder for a few custom pieces. Along with this the couple will receive a video montage of their day to show their family and friends as opposed to going through a photo album or slidehsow on the pc. Although I charged the couple for the wedding by the end it will come down to Ontario minimum wage or less. I want to spend that money to present to the couple a package and photos that will make them happy and present me in the best possible light to friends and family. To do so I am going over how to present the material. The video montage will be on a dvd with custom menu/imagery (I have plenty of experience here) incerted into a dvd case with custom incert. The dvd itself will be labbed with a custom piece taken from one of the photos.</p>

<p>The photos will be on a custom dvd like the video montage in it's own case with a separate custom insert. I was also thinking a small photobook (I get a great discount at a local print shop), card and a nice 8x10 frame. I was also thinking of presenting the parents on both sides with the same package minus photobook and frame so that they too have the images/video to share with friends to promote my business.</p>

<p>Any thoughts on this or other ideas?</p>

<p>Billy </p>

<p>I think you're ambitious to say the least, haha! I love your enthusiasm. Please come up with a set of package prices for future weddings that pay you appropriately for all that you are giving this couple (and their parents!) -- and have them ready and in print before any referrals come your way.</p>

<p>Remember one thing -- if you have another job in addition to future wedding gigs -- you won't have the luxury of all this time and effort you are putting into this first wedding. I can't stress enough - make sure your price list gives you an adequate profit margin. Take it from someone who has been there and done that.</p>

<p>Also, and this is just an opinion -- I don't think the parents have much to do with promoting your business. Concentrate on the bride/groom and getting their friends to notice you.</p>

<p>Other ideas -- If you haven't already, create your own Facebook business page. Tag them on their Facebook accounts. Watermark your web images. I've had lots of friends of the bride/groom contact me after they see the photos posted. </p>

<p>One last thing -- if you are moving forward on this as a real business -- get a license and insurance (you can get insurance through PPA as a member).</p>

<p>Thanks Maria and yes I know I need a price list to give me a far better profit margin. But I don't want to overcharge for something that I am begining in. I am confident in my skills as a photographer and want to charge based on my experience. Otherwise it just doesn't feel right. It was the same for my portraits and event photography. Start small build it up.<br>

I do have a facebook page and website and will be developing a new website for my wedding photography! Very exciting!<br>

As for the parents I was thinking that if they had the photos and the videos they would be eager to show their freinds. So now I would have both parents and the couple showing off. Plus I thought the couple would have thought that it was thoughtful to think about the parents and save them from having to make copies. What do you think?<br>

Also what is PPA? Sorry if that's a dumb question!</p>

<p>Cheers!</p>

<p>Billy</p>

<p>Sorry <a href="../photodb/user?user_id=6221458">Maira</a> for spelling your name wrong!</p>

<p>QUESTION!</p>

<p>If the bride has naturally dark eyes (around socks/bags) should I remove them or try to "mute" them a bit?</p>

<p>On 4000 pictures? No. On 1000 pictures? No. On maybe the ones they pick for an album--perhaps. If she doesn't say anything about them, don't 'fix' them.</p>

<p>Lol, William's enthusiasm reminds me of when I was younger ( I say that as if I'm not just 30 years old)</p>

<p>I must say. That is a lot of photographs. And your intentions to give them copies of your color edits plus all B&W, wow. Talk about a lot of post processing. Even if you're using something like marcus bell or jeff ascough B&W actions. Still will take quite a while.</p>

<p>Keep the enthusiasm going. It almost makes me want to go outside and shoot for fun again. Shooting for fun hmm, I almost forget what that's like... lol..</p>

<p>Edit a few thousand pics for dark eyes ? don't be crazy man. Edit whatevers going into the photo album really , really well. And anything they might want in 8x10 prints. I'm sure she realizes at this stage of the game she has darker eye areas. Seeing lots of photos without dark eye areas may be more of a shock to her than anything. Seeing a few very well processed photos without the dark areas for her album, will probably have more of a positive effect.</p>

<p>To learn for the future, ask yourself looking at the shots, would some fill flash have helped those dark circles a bit? Even if you are outside a little fill flash can go a long way with things like that. I still think that editing even 1000 images in Photoshop is a beast of a task. If you get yourself a copy of lightroom, you will be baffled at how much faster the whole process goes, and frankly, by it being more streamlined, your final product will probably be better. I too started out shooting absurd quantities of photos at weddings. But then my mentor pointed out to me if I am just clicking away and not really watching for the big moments, you may miss it. Actions build up and have crescendos. You want to often get that emotion at its peak. My husband calls it going on a photo safari. You look for a potential situation that is likely to produce a great image, then wait for that peak smile or laugh. This will make your images better overall and give you MUCH less to do in post.</p>

<p>Bill wrote:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I understand the thought process of 1 photo per pose but it's always been my policy to give a couple or few of each pose to allow them to choose from. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>I believe your policy (it's not so much a policy as it is an intention, this being your first wedding, which is not similar to, say, portraiture) comes from positive motives to deliver the most value to your client. So I salute your intention, but I'd like it to be better informed.</p>

<p>The reason you give the client one image of each moment or pose is that it is <strong>painful </strong>to have to sift through two or three or four shots of the same moment or pose. <strong>One skill that distinguishes a wedding photographer from a casual snapshot photographer is the ability to choose </strong>the right moment to shoot, or, after shooting one moment several times (some circumstances justify doing so), to choose the best image of the subset. </p>

<p>Don't inflict this job on your clients. An album of 400-600 shots is something clients can manage and enjoy. Even if you cull half your images for technical reasons, 2000 images is not manageable. Clients can't sit through that many images from start to finish and enjoy seeing their day play out. From 4000, it will be a herculean effort to cull even to 400-600, which is why <em>you </em>should do it, and not make your clients do it.</p>

<p>Additionally, the suffering you will experience in culling from 4000 to 600 will shape your photography for the better. If you punt and make your clients do this, your photography will take much longer to improve. But, the next time you shoot a wedding, if you have this awful memory of trying to cull 4000 images, one of the voices in your head will keep nagging you to shoot fewer images, and instead shoot better ones. </p>

<p>In case I didn't make it clear, a policy of giving clients thousands of images <strong>punishes your clients for hiring you, </strong>rather than hiring someone who 1) shoots fewer, better images, and 2) has the skill to sort and cull. <strong>:D</strong></p>

<p>Okay, now, having said that, if you are for some reason still determined to deliver every single even-remotely-arguably-usable image to the clients, <strong><em>at least </em></strong>have the decency to sort them into two categories: your premiere shots and your backup collection. The premiere collection should contain no more than one shot of any pose, and then if the clients want an alternate for any image, they can just flip over to the backup folder and find additional shots of the same thing. </p>

<p>Glad you enjoyed the wedding day. Keep in mind that the job extends until (and often past) the minute you deliver images to your client, so make decisions after you've done what many of us consider the harder work (at least, early in your career) of selecting and processing images for delivery.</p>

<p>Let us know how this goes, would you?</p>

<p>Thanks Ian that was very informative. I am trying to cull it down as much as possible and very much like your idea of one folder for the best images and another with alternate images. 4000 is a lot and will never shoot that much again! I have several folders to go through and after day 1 and only through 2! </p>

<p>"4,000 is a lot." ... the understatement of the year : -)</p>

<p>That is like 8 or 9 shots a minute for 8 hours straight without stopping, or any break what-so-ever. Whew.</p>

<p>Not sure how the heck you could even do that. We just shot a major 8.5 hour wedding at 5 locations using three photographers because of logistics (which is rare), and ended up with 1,400 images that I culled down to 1,000 before making a final pass to arrive at 800, which includes many duplicates of the same image converted to B&W ... so it is more like 700 unique images. That is about 200 or so more than we normally deliver. </p>

<p>However, it sounds like you learned that lesson. Bravo.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>If the bride has naturally dark eyes (around socks/bags) should I remove them or try to "mute" them a bit?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>No. I might pick a few and fix them. But fixing 400 or 1000 will not only take enormous amount of time, there's no way you can fix them all consistently. I would just let sleeping dogs lie.</p>

 

<p>Ok so I have finished editing the photos and have it down to 1298! Now on to the video!</p>

<p>Wow! Good luck.<br>

Just for perspective -- 4000 photos of nine hours means you were taking a photo every 8 secs. on average. Wow. Good luck still with all your post work William.</p>