Bookings down, worried about the future...

<p>Hi Elle,</p>

<p>I went back and re-read your thread from October 2010 where you were wondering ... "What's the point?". </p>

<p>It sounds like you put a real effort into marketing since then to no avail. </p>

<p>In your october thread you mentioned that you lived in a town of about 80,000 people and that there was pretty stiff competition in the area. IMO, that is a very small pool to be swimming in for only doing weddings.</p>

<p>The fact may well be that supply has simply out-striped demand in your area ... and when that happens in economics, it is the middle player that take the brunt ... the established higher end photographer lives on word of mouth in that social strata and can reach down into the upper end of the mid-level buyer if necessary ... while the mid and lower end gravitates to price where the competition is ferocious. </p>

<p>You cannot ascertain your competitive set by a self-evaluative quality judgements ... consumers are not that sophisticated. Consumers cannot tell a level up or a level down from you. Big name shooters get referrals from previous clients that are in the same social circle ... often it is who's wedding you shot, not how well you shot it. </p>

<p>If it is any consolation, my wedding work is way down. I refused to drop prices and lost maybe half a dozen weddings from people who LOVED my work, read all the glowing endorsements from former clients, and never called back. My personal POV is that weddings are to much work to be doing them for minimum wage. I've already spent to much time and treasure trying to compete ... money and effort that placed elsewhere would garner greater returns.</p>

<p>Commercial work has filled in the for the missing wedding income and it is waaaaay easier to do. This has nothing to do with talent or ability shooting weddings. While you could push even harder on the business end, the question is how much harder can you push? You said you're exhausted ... so maybe that's the limit?</p>

<p>Perhaps it is time to look elsewhere? You are a photographer first, and there are other things besides weddings to shoot. </p>

<p>My assistant of 3 years isn't really interested in shooting weddings on her own (which she is fully able and talented enough to do) ... she still helps me, but has built a thriving business shooting families, kids and new-borns ... far outstripping anything she could have made shooting weddings on her own.</p>

<p>Personally, I have already made more income this year from commercial work than any best past season of 20+ good paying weddings. I love wedding photography, but it is a lot of work for the money if you put a lot of passion and care into it.</p>

<p>Best of luck. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Have you read the Fast Track Photographer and the Fast Photographer Business Plan? As strange as it may sound, reading between the lines of what you write, it sounds like you're selling a product instead of a brand. That competition you say is doing so well... how are they selling themselves?</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>I believe my website is supposed to be search engine optimized, though I didn't do it manually - it's supposedly built-in. Perhaps I should investigate this further. Perhaps the system is not ideal...</em><br /><em>Key words include "photography" plus my location, venues, style, prominent names, etc.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>What is your website? </p>

<p>Elle,<br>

To some people walking into a BMW/Mercedes dealership type of photo booth with an attractively dressed woman as a photographer can be a turned off. Because they sub-consciously think about their wallet in this kind of environment.<br>

One time, I walked past a plush photo booth, the lead photog was a gorgeous girl not even 30 years old and she had the make-up and hair done better wearing a sexy short skirt suit. And her assistance was an equally attractive young girl. As a red blooded male, I lingered around the booth a few moments just to double take them.<br>

However, we all know it is the brides that are picking the photogs. Do you think brides would pick that good looking girl photog with a good possibility to upstage her on her wedding day?<br>

I sometimes think that we, the photogs, take this business more seriously than most brides do. And that is a problem if you ask me.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>If youre on Facebook, look me up - www.facebook.com/zack_zoll .</p>

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<p>I tried. The link did not work nor was FB able to find you. I also tried your link from your profile. No go. It seems that your sites do not exist.</p>

<p>Hello, it's been a while since I've posted. Though I've done a few postings about marketing and getting clients.<br>

Marios and Zack really are spot on.<br>

I'm going to offer a little 101 that's been drilled into my head,<br>

Start with.<br>

1. If it were easy, everybody would do it.<br>

You aren't in an easy profession and no matter what items you include as a reason why things aren't working the way you'd like, it still isn't easy. This is a one off business by and large and most of our clients won't be coming back for this service. Most don't want the products we offer, and a staggering percentage probably never will look at the pictures once the DVD gets in their hands.<br>

2. You have to move further afield then your town. That means if it's 150 miles to the next town, you are driving 150 miles further, get a cheap reliable car, not a truck that will kill you in gas cost. Oh-you are EATING the cost of the extra miles with my next point, don't fuss with that over 25 miles and it's $2/mile nonsense...none of the clients you should want have time for tht.<br>

3. RAISE YOUR PRICES, seriously raise 'em not $100-$200 that's nothing and keeps you in the same market (demographic, not geographic) and will always allow for undercutting. These new prices should be north of $2500, like $3500-$4000. Think that isn't "fair"? What is fair? Charging $1200 for the same amount of work, killing yourself by trying to sell on volume, not quality? How much marketing would you do to get that $4000+ client? What kind of album does that client expect? What kind of service? I assure you, that client expects to not have to call you about when pictures are to be done, your contract should say when, won't nickel and dime you about 500 vs 1000 shots. They are contracting the services of an artist, not someone with a nice camera.<br>

Think of how many weddings are done in your state, and unless it's Alaska, you can't say it's to far. How many wedding photographers are you competing against at $1200-$1800 more than 50? 100? 200?. How many are over $4000 or higher? I promise you, less than 20, Does your work stand up beside those 20? Are your deliverables as good as theirs? Do you think their clients would like your work?<br>

4. How to get those clients? Marketing-sort of...The google and SEO client is a bargain hunter, sub $2000 photographer, it was different 5-10 years ago, but not now. You will not make your money back with an SEO based marketing plan. You need the "Old Ways"!<br>

That means, you have to talk, and network with people who work at the places and with the clients you want. Did I mention the 150 miles travel? Yeah, here's where it really bites.<br>

You must become familiar to these people, the venues, the DJ's and that sort. No offense to florists, bakers, dress makers and so forth, but the big 4 for a wedding are date specific, and they get signed first (1. Sanctuary 2. Reception Venue 3. Media (Video and/or photo 4. Entertainment)<br>

Familiar, not a business card to be stacked with the rest, joining a networking group dedicated to events, like NACE (National Association of Catering Executives) for one is a way to just rub elbows with them. Then you must reach a level of familiarity with them create all kinds of documents for the venue you want to work at. Do it at no cost. If there's a location where I want to work at in my area, I will go there, find the event coordinator, director of catering, show some of my portrait work, some of my food photography, and get a chance to photograph their kitchen staff and food for them to use as they will WITHOUT PHOTOCREDIT!<br>

Is this undercutting? Nope, it's not like I'm doing it forever for free, but what it does is send a clear message to that exec that I want to be there, and I'm giving them something they can use or not use at no cost to them. I ask for nothing in return, and quite frankly expect nothing.<br>

After 6-12 months of that, I have reached a level of saturation in the market, the public is familiar with my work, so are the venues. I start getting positive word of mouth, my website gets looked for specifically on Google, so the SEO isn't as helpful because they are looking for ME, not someone like me. My work online reflects what my potential clients have seen, and so much more.<br>

Those 4 things bring bigger paying clients to you without you saying a single word to them.<br>

If you can't close the deal after that, then this business might not be for you and 2nd shooting is a better course. You can be an artist without making a living from it. Actually that's what is the case for most artists. But as most people can't be great artists, most people can't be great at business.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p><strong>OP:</strong> And yet, my competition is THRIVING. They already have 3-5 weddings under their belt this season, their facebook pages boast upwards of 600 fans, and comments on blog posts are always so heartbreakingly complimentary. But their work is mediocre at best. They usually have one or two very nice shots and then the rest are blown out, over-processed, poorly-composed filler.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Like Mr. Ellis Vener, I am also interested in seeing your website, but for the curious reason that you think the thriving competitors are doing much better even though they do mediocre work at best compared to yours. I'm curious as to what level of expertise and work quality you do provide your clients with that is superior to your competitors (yet you are not getting the business). I think seeing your body of work would serve some purpose to this discussion. Maybe other posters will be able to give advice from different angles that correspond and is relevant to your photography style and products.</p>

<p>I just helped the bride's mother (who is also my mother) pick a photographer for $66 (after I refused to be the GWC) and a person for flower decorations for $266 (these are average rates in my part of the town). The food will likely cost a bunch more. As said above, the venue, and florist each highly recommended their own known photographers, and we would probably have looked at them had we not booked one already.<br>

As I see, weddings are all about the bride's mother.. so that's who I'd sell to were I in the business (or the bride, if the mom is not to be in the picture). That probably means being a person mom wouldn't mind her daughter be associated with. Did you know that in many parts of the world married men would look upon an unknown bachelor as a threat?</p>

<p>I don't shoot weddings, I'm uneasy with families, especially happily married ones...</p>

<p>Indraneel, you probably meant that your mother paid you $66 for helping her pick a photographer :)</p>

<p>Indraneel,</p>

<p>Is there any cultural reference with all the pricing being $66 or $266? This can't be a coincident, can it? </p>

Elle. I don't do weddings any more. I never wanted to do weddings to begin with. However, I did them successfully for about seven years during which time I built a business based mostly upon referrals and alliances. I had a studio and if I could get a client through the door I could almost always sell them. First of all I did not have hard and fast pricing rules. One of the keys to making sales is to financially qualify the customer. I did what I thought my client could afford. As long as I could contribute to the bottom line I priced to get the job by beating the competion. I bid each wedding based upon customrer interview and perhaps a price negotiation with the prospective client. I had a friend who is still a Justice of the Peace and still my friend. I did a lot of her weddings if I could fit them in. I did one wedding where my wife was the sole witness even though we stood on a cliff next to the Atlantic Ocean with the bride looking beautiful in her white wedding dress. There were no guests. I charged them 300 bucks for an hours work. Things like that did a lot for my reputation and got referrals from that JOP who still comes to my house for dinner. I worked with the local Chamber of Commerce in the semi-resort town I lived in. I knew everyone who worked there and visited them often and regularly replenished my brochures there. They referred a lot of business to me. I was a volunteer in Town government. That got me a lot of referrals. I built a local reputation that got me local business as well as people coming through the Town to get married by the ocean. I established a relationship with a local harborside Inn where I got all of their referrals. I even did catalog work for a local clothing business. If I did not have big weddings I did little weddings because they sometimes got me referrals for bigger weddings. Now this was done just before digital came in big in the early 2010s. One thing that got me a lot of referrals was fast delivery of film proofs and albums in less than two weeks and most ofter within a week. Every wedding customer of mine got an 11x14 print made the day after the wedding. I treated my small wedding customers like they had spent 3500 bucks. When I quit because I did this after two earlier retirements and got too old and tired, I was doing well but did not want expand. Being older, although presentable, I worked hard to please the mothers and mother-in-laws. They help make the wedding go better and I think are a great source of referrals. I tried very hard to establish relationships with the brides and family at meetings before the wedding because having them like you is, I think, the key to getting referrals from happy customers. It also helps establish relaxed personal communicatgion about pictures at the wedding. Now I fully understand that the business has changed a great deal in the past decade but as in my past business, which was quite technical, human contact and getting a cadre of supporters working for one cannot hurt. I must confess because I worked alone, had my own small studio, and delivered quickly I price undercut my competition. Occasionally I still get asked about weddings. Dale Carnegie many years ago told me to speak from my own experience because that is really the only thing I am truly expert about. I post this to see if it might be useful to you. I think lots of people can make good pictures but I think the key to success is good business sense, relationships and marketing along with an acceptable product. The best of luck.

<p>What is your price range ? I know it varies from city to city, but usually consistant. There are 3 catagories of wedding photographers. low cost ($250-$750) shoot then give bride a CD. The middle group ($800-2000) Includes images & maybe a package with album. Then the high group ($2500+) includes, hours of photo coverage, Art albums, pre bridal, etc. The middle group is falling to the side. YOu probably fall in that group. YOu said ""<em>I always produce at least 50-100 album-worthy images that tell a complete story" </em>That is what we did on the 80s' ! No where enough images. Do you then have a DVD or CD with several hundred other poses ? Check what others are charging & what their packages include. I had a full time pro/friend that was on the same side of town. I made sure my packages were similar to his & charged less. 2011 Weddings & brides are not so much quality poses, but quantity, photojournalistic, behind the scenes. Parents still like posed perfect shots, but brides don't.<br />I don't consider 3-5 weddings booked thriving. When I shot I had a lot of bookings over a year in advance.<br />You said<strong> "<em>MY selections</em></strong>," should <strong>not</strong> be YOUR selection, but the bride's. It is their wedding. You may be the pro, but is THEIR wedding, their money, their choice to use someone else.</p>

<p>Hi Elle-<br>

I understand why you're not posting your site here, and I think that's smart. You're welcome to send me an email, see the link when you click on my name, and I'll give you an evaluation of your site and I'll share some ideas that have worked for me. I have a successful wedding business that I've built up over several years, and my background in in photo editing at a national news magazine. I promise to be impartial, and honest. I found that a few changes I made three years ago really helped my business take off.<br>

alex</p>

<p>ha ha, no Andrew, I probably cramped up that sentence too much. I refused to be the GWC, so a local photographer was hired for $66, not too bad (in nearly a village) in India, considering that there are $100 wedding shooters on craigslist in the US (except that this "village" person would be a "professional" of sorts). Wedding photography prices do go to $2K+ in India nowadays for not so extravagant weddings. The thing with the sub $100 photog here is that the pictures will be consistent (even if mediocre) with what everyone in the community has seen and come to expect for decades (lighting does not really change a whole lot, even when armed with a CCD). On the other hand the $1000 person has to really work at proving why his non-traditional photos with a new fangled digital camera will look 10 times better, and why I should care. In my case the mother of the bride didn't really care much, and I can do without the headache of trying to understand why I should be parting with $1000.</p>

<p>Maybe I'm cynical, but unless it's a cause very close to my heart, I can't be bothered by what anybody in the world is doing.. and this includes all human actions, not just photography... we do go to Walmart to buy sub-standard quality, don't we? It's not the product or action that's important, it's what it represents. The wedding images may be spectacular, but if the bride's mom really wants to show them around so her friends and relatives will say "oh so cute!", then the photographer had better concentrate on that. Being quickly able to understand relationship and social dynamics goes a long way here (as in any other field, unfortunately, as said above). If I had already made up my mind to part with $1000, I'd have looked among the $1K photographers as to who could pacify me (maybe given them an opportunity to plead their case), and then asked to throw in an added $100 worth of shots to pacify the mob. Sadly, the $1K+ segment in India currently looks like a rip-off (400 shots on a DVD). (The $66 photographer provides prints and video!)</p>

<p>I'm wondering how sad I'm going to be if I don't take any pictures... And if I do, whose view would I not mind blocking, hypothetically, the $66 photographer or the $1K photog? (Sub)consciously, one tends to bargain where the loss will be minimal.</p>

 

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<p>Is there any cultural reference with all the pricing being $66 or $266?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Rupees 3000 ~= $66, Rs 12000 ~= $266..... 266/66 ~= 4 (blame maths for that!)</p>

<p>From almost everyone I've talked to, doing Google ad words or an online campaign is not worth the money you put into it. I've had 0 responses to the ad I've put on mywedding.com's local section in Boston. And I've used the free $100 I got from google by placing my ad on google places. I saw from analytics that yes, it did generate hits, but that didn't generate leads. Tried and true what REALLY works for me, is getting to know wedding planners. If you are looking for a client that isn't looking for bargain basement cheap prices off of craigslist, then these are wonderful resources for you. Think about it, a person who hires a wedding planner is more likely to understand the value of good quality wedding photos. Calling up the wedding planners in your area and asking to do lunch or coffee is much cheaper than going to random bridal shows. So here are some free things you should try:<br>

1) Make a google places page. This is TOTALLY FREE. Fill out the whole thing, with example photos and a video even. Even if it is just a basic slideshow of your images. See if you can get any of your past brides to give you a good review on it. Make sure to put in some good keywords. For example because of this, now when someone types up affordable wedding photographer Boston I come up on the first page of google searches. <br>

2) Get a google analytics page set up to figure out where your traffic is coming from.<br>

3) I believe that Jasmine Star has some creative live sessions that are free that talk about business and branding.<br>

4) If you don't have one already (because you haven't provided us a link to your website), star a blog. Blogs are VASTLY better for being indexed in google. One that isn't free but is FABU for search engine optimization is pro photo blogs. Then write in this blog regularly, provide sample images.<br>

5) Make a facebook business page. Fill it with your photos. Tag your previous brides if they let you. Ask all your friends to "like" your page so that it shows up in their news threads.<br>

6) Make a wedding wire listing. See if you can get any of your past brides to give you a good review on it.<br>

7) Make a yelp listing. See if you can get any of your past brides to give you a good review on it.<br>

8) Make a wedding channel listing. See if you can get any of your past brides to give you a good review on it.<br>

9) Lastly, be honest with yourself and really evaluate you. I have had more than one wedding planner say they were so glad to meet me because I actually seemed like a normal person, and not a recluse being all about my art that just happens to be of couples getting married. <br>

10) Stay positive. Photo.net is an ok place to vent, but do not, I MEAN DO NOT let a bit of this attitude out to any potential clients or other vendors or wedding planners. You must radiate positivity. No one wants to jump onto a sinking ship. <br>

Hope that helps!<br>

P.S. If your past brides aren't asking to give you reviews, call them up and find out what you could have done better to serve them. Tell them to be open and honest with you, and that you need to hear the truth because you want to be the best wedding photographer you can be.</p>

<p>Also really take Daniel's advice to heart. I 2nd shot for him, and only once I started really paying attention to those same suggestions he made above did I really start to get higher paying clients.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>“So <strong ><em >WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?</em></strong> Why am I barely getting by? My <strong ><em >prices are fair</em></strong> and suit the quality of my product. I'm a decent photographer. I'm nice and relatively well put-together…Also, <strong ><em >my style</em></strong> is more "editorial" than "bubblegum.". . . Advice? Thoughts?</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

Gidday Elle, <br>

There are a couple of previous posts you’ve made with a similar sentiment and it seems you’re not reaping benefit from all the hard work you are putting into your Wedding Photography Business.<br>

As I have mentioned before, any analysis of YOUR specific problem other than superficial and related general advice, is really quite difficult without some meat and potatoes about your business - i.e. website; samples; prices; demographics . . . etc. <br>

<br>

So therefore I request (again) some details and examples and links with which to work, such that one may offer specific assistance.<br>

<br>

My best blindfolded guess to answer “what am I doing wrong?” is:<br>

<em >“spinning your wheels on unnecessary issues or unattainable prospects”</em><br>

<em > </em><br>

Commenting upon the only hard data supplied: I agree with Marc Williams – working only within a population of 80,000 seems a limiting base from which to draw customers and to build a Wedding Photography Business - particularly if it is a Rural Area and if that Rural Area is similar to the Rural Areas in which I have worked. <br>

</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

 

<p>Perhaps its your personality. You seem timid and unsure of yourself. Weddings can be stressful for the b/g to arrange all of the details etc., if you project a sense of vulnerability or appear uptight you could loose the booking before you even speak. Make sure you come across as someone who is fun and outgoing, basically someone they can relate to. I don't know how old you are, but if you're out of the target demographic of say 40, you perhaps can find more work by marketing to older couples or those getting married for the 2nd or more time.<br>

Perhaps the competitor that is giving away 4 albums etc is giving them a product that is less expensive, say from one of the local retail outlets that publish a 20 page album for around $20, granted the quality isn't high, but it fits the bill for a $1,000 package. So why not try bringing "discount" samples as your main seller and if they seem put off by the quality offer up your "premium" samples for the more discerning clients....<br>

Spend some time doing basic market research, contact florists, bakeries etc and find out what they charge for a "typical wedding package" Ask about specials or discounts, it's up to you if you want to pretend to be a bride or let them know your updating your pricing, both yield interesting results, but you need to know not only what other photographers are charging but how this economy has affected other vendors as well.<br>

If you find that pricing is more important than quality for your market you will need to address the issue of price vs. cost, on the other hand, you indicated you were less than established studios, but above the non-studio wedding specialist. That tells me you don't have a grasp on what the market will bear in your area. You are in a very tough spot called no-man's land. Lower your price and deliver packages similar to other non studio owners, or up your game and focus on the higher end client. Remember you don't have to get lots of weddings to make money, you just need to make money on the ones you get.<br>

So in short:<br />Be Positive and Fun for the youngsters<br />Be Established and Professional for the elders<br />Be in the mainstream of price and products or really exceptional for the well to do clients</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p ><a name="00YmPl"></a><a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=839345">Raymond Thompson</a> <a href="http://www.photo.net/member-status-icons"></a>, May 24, 2011; 12:21 p.m.</p>

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<p><em><strong>If youre on Facebook, look me up - www.facebook.com/zack_zoll .</strong></em><br>

I tried. The link did not work nor was FB able to find you. I also tried your link from your profile. No go. It seems that your sites do not exist.</p>

</blockquote>

 

Whoops! It's just www.facebook.com/zzoll . I confused my Facebook and my email, and just failed Marketing 101!

<p>I emailed the OP a few days ago with an offer to help; yet have not heard back.<br>

Of several questions, I also asked to see a few samples of the work; no go there either.</p>

<p>Kinda' makes ya go "Hmmm?"</p>

<p>Hello everyone,</p>

<p>I've been very busy this week with some assignments, my "day job" and some family obligations, so I haven't had a chance to read all the responses yet. (I had a bit of a holiday this weekend, so was able to be a bit more active on here then.) However, what I have read has been very helpful and encouraging.</p>

<p>Also, quite a few of you have emailed me with suggestions, which I truly appreciate. It's a little overwhelming, to be honest! I'm very touched so many of you would like to help, though a part of me wonders just how many of you simply want to see my website ;) As I have time over the next few weeks, I will try to respond to those I feel comfortable communicating with.</p>

<p>As a few of you have mentioned, I have valid reasons for staying anonymous on a message board. Some folks are quite alright with the internet in its many forms, and some of us are bit more wary, so I appreciate those of you who have been understanding.</p>

<p>Kevin, I did get your email.</p>

<p>Elle, where can we all see <em><strong>your portfolio</strong></em> and your competitors' ones? How much do you and do they charge? Are wedding photography in demand in your town? Without seeing and knowing all that no one will give you a comprehensive and completely useful answer. </p>

 

<p>Elle,<br>

I feel your pain. I've researched the competition, tried to create relationships with wedding planners, venues, etc. Thought about doing bridal shows, but I just don't have the cash to invest in it right now. Visited all the free sites and created listings, advertise on the localarea.com wedding planning site. Done FB. All sorts of things. Had several weddings last year, plus expanded into maternity, newborns, families(and did those for free, since I was just starting out.<br>

Then this year it seemed like it just crashed. Very few phones calls or emails. People who came for appointments didn't book. Very discouraging. We've been doing weddings since 2007 and enjoy doing it. We had raised our prices, but only so that we don't go broke. And we both have other jobs that pay for the house and other stuff. If we didn't, we'd be homeless.<br>

I'm not sure why our inquiries bottomed out. I think that folks are really price shopping now, and we're not the cheapest. But we include 2 photogs, images on disk, on-line galleries, album credits, etc. Custom coverage and products depending on what they want.<br>

I figured it had to be marketing, but we couldn't figure out what to do or what to change and improve. Right now it needs to be free, because it's tight and I can't just throw money around.<br>

If you want to chat and commiserate, feel free to email me.<br>

Thanks,<br>

Barbara</p>

<p>Hi Elle, I'm getting into this a bit late and much good thinking has already gone into the responses. But the issue you have raised and the discussion corresponds to some of my current issues and that prompts me to write. What strikes me most in your writing are the various references to the "poor quality but thriving competition" compared to your good quality product without clients. Noteworthy that at the fair, for example, people visited the cheapee stand rather than your well thought-out cozy stand. I think the issue is not about the quality of the product, but about your presentation of self (your brand, persona, image, self) in relation to what your target client is seeking. Clients aren't buying a set of images, DVDs or albums. I don't think they're evaluating your images against the images of others. They're choosing (buying) the photographer whom they feel understands who they are, their life style, their wedding dream, and will show them off as they see themselves, or even better. It's much about image, how you present your image and how it is aligned, or corresponds, with the self image of the target client group. Who are your target client group(s) and their characteristics: active, young, 2 income, professional, military, pick-ups or bmws, spanish speaking, CW or pop, etc etc ??????.... and how can your brand/persona/image show them that you are the photographer who can meet their expectations. </p>