lightweight easy medium format camera w/ built in light meter. help me please !

<p>I am looking to purchase a medium format camera tonight, but I've been so indecisive and confused on which one to buy. I'm going to be traveling through South America for five months so I would like something fairly portable and not too bulky. I'd like it to have a built in light meter. I like the 6X6 format, but its not a priority. It'd also be a plus if it has decent depth of field and works in low light (but these are also not priorities).<br>

I am an amateur photographer and trying to learn more so I'd prefer a camera that is easy to use as a start...but something I can keep for a lifetime since I'll be spending a lot on it! I'm not sure of all the features on these cameras so please, if you can, advise me! These are the ones I've been looking into:<br>

Plaubel Makina <br>

Fuji 670<br>

FujiGS645<br>

Mamiya 6 or 7<br>

Bronica RF<br>

Bessa Voigtlander iii <br>

Please let me know which camera renders the best quality photos and fits my description above. sorry if my post is a little repetitive. I'm getting too tired of reading so many threads and I'm very short on time! </p>

<p>Best,</p>

<p>Cloe </p>

<p>Built-in light meters aren't very common in medium format. MF has less DoF than 35mm. And with a tripod, anything will work in low light - you just need longer exposures.</p>

<p>Why do you want medium-format? And what is your prior experience? And what will you photograph with the new camera?</p>

<p>Well I got a Canon 7D and recently purchased a Nikon FM2, but I really like the aesthetic of medium format..the larger negative and detail. I photograph people mostly but I'll be seeing some pretty sick views too. I don't have a lot of experience with rangefinders, but I'm willing to struggle with it and learn. I want whichever is most portable, easy, best quality. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.</p>

 

<p>When do you leave?</p>

<p>I'm partial to Rollei twin-lens reflex cameras. They have good lenses. The groundglass at the top makes me feel more an artist than a photographer. There are many places to get them worked on. And they take great photos. But they don't have meters.</p>

<p>Dear Cloe,<br>

Personally I would go for the Mamiya 7, particularly if you are looking at a lifetime commitment. The camera is still current and there are some great lenses for it. I have the 43, 50, 65 80 and 150. I don't use it as much as I should but maybe I will take it to New York when I go there for a short break next weekend.<br>

Of the cameras you have listed the two which will give you the greatest depth of field will be the 645s. Both the cameras are now dicontinued and I believe they operate in the "Portrait" format, so if you want landscape you will be working with the camera on its side.<br>

I had a Fuji 690 (bought and sold one twice), which is similar in size to the 670. I found the camera quite "clunky" but the huge negative/ transparency size was great (although I couldn't project the 6x9s). The camera is very soild. It does not have a built-in meter.<br>

The Makina is a lovely camera, but...it is very delicate and you need to take care with the folding mechanism. It is no longer made and there are several collectors out there so the secondhand prices are high. The lens is f2.8 so would be good for low light, but harder on the focussing.<br>

The Bessa is also a compact camera but again there are concerns about the folding mechaism.<br>

The Mamiya 6 was discontinued a long time ago. It is held in high regard and is quite compact when the lens is collapsed.<br>

With all of these cameras you will find some limitations: either fixed lens or limited range of options; limited close focus - mostly down to just under a metre; viewfinder "inaccuracies".<br>

Have you consider using a 645 SLR? Many people recommend the Pentax 645 but I have never used one. I did have a Mamiya 645 Super with a range of lenses but traded that in when I bought a Canon EOS1n many years ago.<br>

Another thing to bear in mind for your trip is the availablity of film. You are going for a long time and supllies may be difficult.<br>

Best Wishes for your trip.<br>

Ian</p>

<p>I am happy with my Pentax 645N; not 6x6 but easily hand holdable with intuitive controls and a dependable meter.</p>

To add to what Bulent Celasun said, they're pretty light and rugged; sport an accurate spot/centre-weighted/matrix

meter; give you the choice of programme, aperture-priority AE, shutter-priority AE, or metered manual

operation, with no need for one of those blasted mode dials; have available a fine selection of manual-

focus and autofocus lenses (including lenses for the Pentax 67, with the appropriate adapter); are readily

available; and are cheap enough that one wouldn't necessarily feel it's the end of the world if something

unfortunate happened to the camera. They also manage to cram sixteen shots to a roll of 120. The only

real shortcomings are that the viewfinder is fixed, and that one cannot swap film mid-roll.

<p>If this is a once-in-a-lifetime trip take you EOS 7D (or buy a 5D), a couple of lightweight primes (and a super-wide zoom) and use this kit. Makes much more sense in any way than getting (I know I'm going to get flak for this) an outdated format and struggle with a new camera. Especially if your workflow is digital (no wet printing or analog darkroom etc.). If you cannot get "medium format-like" result with a high-end dSLR it is probably you and your technique. Which lenses do you currently have?</p>

<p>That said, I would check out the Mamiya 6 system if you want square images or the Bronica RF645 system which is cheaper, smaller and as the former, discontinued. Both are rangefinders so if you don't have much experience with these camera types get a decent 35mm rangefinder NOW and see if it works for you (for example, a used Yashica Electro or Canon Canonet). A rangefinder is usually the most lightweight option.</p>

<p>Like Bulent I love the 645 SLRs -- in my case the Mamiya M645 Super with motor grip and AE prism. This kit handles like an oversized 35mm SLR and is intuitive and easy to shoot with. However, it is a lot more bulky and heavy than the rangefinders.</p>

<p>Unless money is no issue, don't buy any MF system "blind". Check them out in person and see if you like the ergonomics, bulk, operation etc. There is no perfect camera so you will get lots of different recommendations as this thread grows longer...</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"It'd also be a plus if it has decent depth of field and works in low light"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>These are completely opposite requirements and are governed by the aperture of the lens. You'll get low light performance by using a wide aperture (low F-number) and fitting a faster film, and good depth of field from using a small aperture (big F-number).</p>

<p>No insult meant Cloe, but this very question shows that your level of technical knowledge is not very advanced. Therefore I'd advise against trying to learn how to use a medium format camera while on the trip-of-a-lifetime. </p>

<p>Someone else has already suggested that you spend your money on a good digital SLR, and I'd second that. Consider buying a full-frame DSLR -the quality you'll get from it will be the equal or better than anything you're likely to get from film, and the option of program or auto modes will make getting good pictures a lot easier. You also won't have the worry of trying to source or store film or find a processing lab. Take extra memory cards and batteries and you'll be sorted.</p>

<p>And save some of your money for a photography course when you get back.</p>

<p>HI Cloe...I shoot digital, 35mm, and med format. I echo the sentiments of the others with a Digital SLR. Once in a lifetime thing.....I totally agree...HOWEVER...an option to consider in addition to a Digital SLR, if you reallty want to delve into the 6x6 stuff...Research a Yashica 124G TLR. Relatively inexpensive, very available, well built. Internal light meter. Pick one up and bring it along!<br>

Most importantly, have fun!<br>

Mark</p>

<p>Addition to previous post: If weight and size really are vital, then consider that with film the camera is only part of the story. A pack of 5 films is approximately 3" by 5" by 1" and weighs about 150 grams (6 oz). This only gets you 50, 60 or 75 shots, depending on the format, and that's if you make every shot count. Now it doesn't take too many packs of film to equal the bulk and weight of an entire camera - not to mention the cost of the film itself and processing.</p>

<p>Whereas one 16gig memory card weighs about 10 grams and stores 400 plus pictures at highest RAW quality, using up the charge from about two changes of battery (another 100 grams weight and about half the size of one pack of film). I know which I'd rather lug around.</p>

<p>And not to pick an argument with Mark, but IME the lightmeter in a Yashi 124G is so inaccurate you might as well simply guess or use the old "sunny 16" rule.</p>

<p>Respectfully....</p>

<p>Posts like this are to camera enthusiasts what chum is to sharks. They will always garner a plethora of people who will jump at the opportunity to tell you their favorite cameras are the best for whatever you want to do.<br>

The simple, non-sexy fact that most of us overlook is this: <br>

It is a very bad idea to buy a camera that you know nothing about to use for an important occasion. Buying into a format you know nothing about makes it an even dumber idea.<br>

Buying a medium format camera will not make you the next Avedon. A good photographer with a Fuji Quicksnap can run circles around an camera geek with a brand spankind new hasselblad H3 dslr. Period.</p>

<p>Oops... spanking...</p>

<p>But... that being said, an easy to use, autofocus mf camera with an exceptional lens can be found in the Fuji line of rangefinder cameras. I personally use Rollieflex tlrs, one with a very accurate meter. I would NOT recommend it, however, to someone unfamiliar with medium format photography. The Fuji rangefinders (ga645zi, ga645) handle much like 35mm point and shoot cameras, in that they have coupled meters and autofocus. You can use the cameras in program mode, and switch to aperture or shutter priority once you figure out what the camera does when you actuate the shutter.</p>

 

<p>"can keep for a lifetime". Well, I have kept most cameras after I stopped using them, including the Mamiya 645 Super (which would be a good choice, by the way, if you really want MF). So, there is a difference between keeping and using. My advice, buy a camera that meets your immediate purpose, i.e. the trip that you are planning. Purchasing fresh MF film, and dealing with the exposed film, could be very difficult on an extended road trip, requiring detailed planning (addresses of pro camera stores, probably only in major cities, locations of FedEx shipping centers, can't trust postal services, and so on). Unless you stay in a major city, no matter what the MF folks on this forum say, don't go with film! Get a good DSLR or P&S, enough memory cards, a small laptop that allows you to review the images that you are taking to avoid consistent mistakes or camera issues, and some type of backup for your images. Plan sending your image backup back home at some intervals in case your gear+images gets stolen. Probably best in the form of CD's, so best if your laptop can burn CD's. Even better if you have a buddy who can take the CD's home personally. Or do both with multiple copies of the same CD. You need redundancy, and film does not offer it. If your luggage gets lost, soaking wet, whatever, your pictures are gone. On a 6 month trip, the chances for anything like this to happen are very high.</p>

<p>For lightweight, sturdy, easy as pie to use, great lenses and built in meter, keep looking at the Mamiya 6 or 7. Their fastest lenses aren't 2.8 though, the normal lens is 4.0 and after that the fastest aperture is 4.5, however being a rangefinder compensates for that some what, as there's no mirror slap like many other cameras so you can shoot at lower speeds then slr's. </p>

I recommend the following for your long trip (relatively small and light compared to most MF cameras):

 

Mamiya 6: range finder, collapsible bellow, great interchangeable lenses (set of 3), see review at kenrockwell.com,

weighted average metering (Mamiya 7 is not collapsible and features spot metering), can't go wrong with this camera.

Fijifilm GF670 (aka Voigtländer Bessa III): range finder, collapsible bellow, prime lens, big bucks (relative to Mamiya 6),

a beauty.

 

Both are 6x6 (GF670 also 6x7) with light meters.

 

Another option:

Rolleiflex 2.8E and 2.8F with light meters. The newer Rolleiflex GX tlr with light meter is exorbitantly pricey.

 

If you are not so keen on 6x6, consider the easy to use Fujifilm GA645i ,*autofocus* zoom medium format, 6x4.5,

good aperture priority mode, good street and travel camera

 

The Mamiya 6 set is my favorite for travel even over my Hasselblad with digital back and my Rolleiflex 2.8E. My GA645zi is generally good for travel as well but too automatic or me.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards

<p>I own a Pentax 645n as well as a Canon 5Dmk11. As someone else noted, your experience level for the trip you're undertaking, may cause you to later regret your decision to embark with medium format film rather than a digital SLR. If you insist on making the trip and shooting medium format, then I would agree with several other posters that hands down, the 645n will be the easiest to use and deliver the most keepers. It has outstanding metering, auto or manual focus capabilities, depth of field preview (quite important for medium format) and it's rugged. I took mine all over the world with nary a glitch. Do I shoot it much anymore? No.</p>

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll just chill on the medium format for now. I don't want to make a rushed decision. I have used medium formats before though so I'm not completely clue-less and jumping into a new format. Anyways, I think I might get a new lens for the Canon 7D. Which lens is light and cool for basic street photography? I have the 16-35, pretty wide and big. I might go for 50mm, keep it simple.

<p>Again, respectfully....</p>

<p>Why are you depending on others to suggest lenses for you to use? It does not matter what someone else likes. Anyone serious<br>

about photography finds his own way. Only <strong>you </strong>can determine what is a good lens/camera combination for you to work with.</p>

<p>Hi Cloe:<br>

The Mamiya 7 has a nice 6x7 format and the lenses are good. It's a good way to go if you prefer film.<br>

Joe Faust</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Which lens is light and cool for basic street photography?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>http://www.squarefrog.co.uk/</p>

<p>Of course, bring your DSLR, but your might have some fun with the Holga.</p>

<p>Fujifilm 645GA Zi and Mamiya 6 or 7II no questions..best lenses ant very light cameras.</p>

<p>http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7318135/</p>

<p>I own a Yashica 124 Mat G TLR. It is the last camera I would recommend for a trip like this. It's metering is so inaccurate that it is only good for black and white unless you have an external meter. Also it has a fixed 80 mm (normal lens) so not much flexibility there.<br>

If it were me, I'd either be looking at a Pentax 645N or a Mamiya 6 or 7 depending on whether you want an SLR or a rangefinder.<br>

I agree with others that you don't want to be relying too heavily on medium format and would be well served and probably get better results with a 5D (mark I or II). That said, medium format slides are pretty nice to look at and will give you something more tangible than digital captures. When I travel I still shoot 35 mm, despite it being a PITA and despite digital giving better and easier results by miles.</p>

<p>Travelling with a film camera is complicated today.</p>

<p>Airport controls can spoil your films. You should always keep them in hand luggage with your camera gear, and restrictions on size and weight is a problem, especially if you are travelling alone.</p>

<p>Since several years, as almost nobody travel with films, security guards are not incline to take care of your problem and they now never accept a manual control.</p>

<p>This is the reason why a photographer like Salgado was obliged to jump in the digital workflow.</p>

<p>I have been using Mamiya 7II, with 43mm, 65mm, 150mm for travelling. Very nice camera and lenses, same size as 24x36 camera gear. For shooting neg film, I was reliying on the internal meter, but for slides prefer using an external meter. You have to be very cautious on depth of field, especially with the 150mm as what is engraved on the barrel of the lens is optimistic.</p>

<p>But finally I gave up, I was marking cross on my roll of films to count the number of airport controls they went through, there is a cumulative effect of x-rays, even if it is said "no danger for film". And as you usually take with you more films than you use, when you come back you have unused film stock you wont dare to take to another trip...</p>

<p>Buying film and have them processed while at destination is also complicated. You have to research on Internet addresses before travelling. You have to consider the prices of films, the lab quality, the time spent to get there, to wait for the film to be processed or to come back to get them... </p>

<p>So now I am using a canon 5D, with 17x40 and 70x200, both f4 and I am happy with the results which "compete" with what I got with the Mamiya. I usually also bring a 24mm TSE for architecture and landscape subjects. But if you want to work hand held with available light, you could consider one prime lens opening at f2, which is sufficient, and less weight and money than f 1.4.</p>

<p>If I want to be "very light" I am using Micro 4/3 format. Staying as low as possible with the ISOs, results are very good too.</p>

<p>In your relation with people, digital has the advantage you can show your pictures of them, can easily get a print to offer. </p>

<p>I hope this will help to make your decision.<br>

Have a good trip and enjoy !</p>