Kiev-4A: Nice camera, but ...

<p>My 1981 Kiev-4A with Helios-103 arrived from an auction seller in the Ukraine yesterday. The first, and I guess the last, camera that I'll have ordered from that country.</p>

<p>It certainly looks nice enough, very clean and scratch free. Lens looks and works great. But, initially I was very upset, because not very much else about the camera seemed like it was working. This is my first experience with a Kiev, so I had to familiarize myself with the camera and troubleshoot at the same time.</p>

<p>The shutter wound and fired fine, but the actual shutter speeds didn't correspond to what was indicated, and some indicated shutter speeds were impossible to select. (Yes, I know you have to wind first.) The lens was jammed and none of the focus apparatus would work, although the infinity lock was not engaged. The self timer flopped limply.</p>

<p>After fiddling with the shutter speed dial for a while I realized that it was just the indicator disc that had gotten turned out of position, and once corrected, the shutter behaved as it should. Some gentle persuasion loosened the lens, and it then turned in sync with the focus wheel, but the infinity lock never engaged; the lens would just screw into the camera until the threads bound up, indicating nowhere close to infinity. Also, none of this had any effect on the rangefinder patch, which did not converge or diverge whichever way I turned the lens.</p>

<p>My experience with old folder lenses served me well here because eventually it occurred to me that some dolt might have removed the lens mount, then seated it wrong when replacing it so that the mount caught the wrong entry point on the thread. I unscrewed the mount all the way out of the camera, turned if half a turn, and screwed it back in. Presto. It now settled into the camera so that it reached infinity and the infinity lock engaged when it was almost all the way in. I opened the camera and checked the collimation using the magic-tape-over-the-film-plane method. Perfect. It appeared now that I had a camera that would take pictures, using scale focusing or an accessory rangefinder. But I was kind of hoping for a rangefinder camera. And although the lens and focus wheel were working together fine, the rangefinder patch was not moving. This was a tougher problem.</p>

<p>I morosely perused the Kiev Survival Site for an hour or two, and gradually, while looking at the pictures on <a href="http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/adjust%20rangefinder.html">http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/adjust%20rangefinder.html</a>, a hypothesis formed. A clue was that my rangefinder was stuck at a position well <em>beyond</em> infinity. Looking at the first picture on the above page, I realized that this is what you would expect if the linkage between the RF compensator arm (part 3 in the picture) and the pin on the worm gear cam (part 4) was broken -- say, because the arm slipped forward of the pin, where its spring would pull it to its front-most position (beyond infinity). Maybe this happened when the dolt screwed the lens mount on wrong, causing it to screw in farther than it was supposed to, and moving the pin so far out of its normal range that the compensator arm slipped off it. </p>

<p>The Survival Site's photos suggested that I could test, and maybe even fix, the problem by taking off only the front cover of the camera. There appeared to be a gap between the viewfinder window and the focusing gears through which I could slip a probe to push the compensator arm back. Maybe if I put the lens on wrong again, I could screw it on tight enough to get the pin out of the way, then push back the arm, and screw off the lens while holding it back, so that the pin would return to its proper position and catch the arm. I proceeded to try it.</p>

<p>It didn't quite work. I was able to find the arm and push it back against the spring, and I could see that it was rotating the RF lens, which told me that my basic hypothesis was correct -- it is a compensator arm/worm gear linkage issue. But I was not able to get the worm gear pin in a position where it would catch the arm again. Also, I noticed that there was more play in the compensator arm (i.e. I could push it back farther) when the lens was focused far than when it was close, the opposite of what I expected. So something else is going on in there. But I can't see what, because all of this stuff is hidden behind the focus gears and under the beam splitter; with only the front off, I'm just poking in the dark and guessing what is happening.</p>

<p>So here is my question to you guys who have worked on these. I'm going to need to remove the beam splitter in order to see what's what and work on this from above. Can I do that after just taking off the front and top covers, or is it impossible without removing the shutter mechanism as well? </p>

<p>In the meantime I've got the camera back together and probably will shoot a roll or two with it just to see how I like it. Underneath all the issues it seems a sound and comfortable camera. </p>

<p>August,<br>

as far as I know Kiev's rangefinder is very reliable. If you going to have this camera for yourself you should probably send it to CLA to Eddy Smolov in Brooklyn 123camerarepair@gmail.com. 1981 camera may be problematic and I would recommend to contact Eddy just in case. I have Kiev and as a matter of fact I have just shot a roll with it for testing new lens hood and for memorizing this year frigid cherry blossom. Likewise you have fun with Kiev...</p>

<p>I'm sorry you have issues with your Kiev 4a. I've had a couple and had nothing but good luck with them. Sold one with a bunch of lenses when I got my Contax IIa kit but kept one for the memories.</p>

<p>They are inconsistent in build quality but generally quite good before 1975ish. Although many have had good luck with the later models. They aren't up to the quality of the Contax but have a charm all their own. I wouldn't part with mine.</p>

<p>Both my Kievs 4As work wonderfully, and I've found Ukrainian post to be among the best in cost and reliability, strangely enough, as compared to Deutsche Post and Royal Post, anyhow. I'd try to communicate with the vendor. if I were you, and give them a chance.</p>

<p>It is very hard to imagine a seller representing this as working after even the most cursory inspection, but hopefully no matter; through the generous assistance of Rick Oleson and with the aid of the Kiev Survival site, I think I fixed it today. After removing the beam splitter (the answer to my question was Yes, it can be removed without taking the shutter out) I saw that the rangefinder compensator arm was bent up so that it rode over the worm gear pin. I bent it back down so that it would engage, and then had to align the rangefinder from scratch. This was difficult but educational. The camera is all back together now and everything seeks to work except that pesky self-timer. In a couple of days I will test the shutter speeds and then go out and do some shooting.</p>

<p>Below is a picture of what I do <em>not</em> like my cameras to look like on the third day I own them. And this after I got the lens mount back on and the beam splitter back in.</p>

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<p>Eddy Smolov does excellent work. I've not sent him a Kiev but he has overhauled two Contaxes for me and both came back in fine working condition. He does not charge much and usually turns a camera around within two weeks.</p>

<p>FWIW, I've been told some real Contax repair people will not touch Kievs lest there be some contamination of the pure with the impure. ;)</p>

<p>Thanks for the tips, guys. In the past 2 days, I've been out shooting with the camera, although it's raining too much to finish a roll. Shutter speeds tested fine -- pretty much right on except they top out at around 1/840 at the 1000 setting. My RF repair seems to be holding up, and it agrees well with my other cameras. Because of a business trip, it will not be until late next week that I can see how the photos come out, and since this thread will be ancient history by then, I'll start a new one. </p>

<p>I find it an enjoyable camera to use. Certainly it does not bespeak quality anything like I imagine a Contax would, or even an earlier Kiev. Basically, everything that you can attribute to Zeiss -- the basic configuration, form factor, elegantly designed workings which I'm now more familiar with than I ever intended to be, etc. -- is terrific. Everything that you can attribute to Kiev, like the materials, assembly quality, the way the controls feel, etc. -- is just okay. </p>

My Kiev rangefinder shutter is very sluggish, at any speed, the shutter takes more than ten seconds to close

The Helios-103 is worth the trouble. My limited experience with Ukranian sellers is (fortunately) good. Hope that you can finally get a nice working camera and enjoy the nice FSU lenses for Kiev bodies.

There used to be a great resource available "Kiev Survival site" Something for research etc.. Apparently the site has been taken down but some enthusiasts have somehow managed to keep it alive ...

 

Kiev Survival Site

 

 

Good Luck!!