5D and 5DmkII focus and metering question

I was wondering if somebody has some factual information as to why the 5D and now the MkII version have what

appears to be an inferior focus and metering system when compared to the EOS 3. My thought is that the 3 is the

5D's film equivalent in the advanced amateur/semi pro class. I don't understand why Canon would apparently go

backward when they made the 5D and still not improve it with the MkII when the tech is already there in an

equivalent class and less expensive camera. I use an EOS 3 and really like how it is set up. I also have an Elan7

and really *don't* like how it is set up in comparison. The 5D is better than the Elan7 setup, but it doesn't look like

much (point spacing wise, not regarding accuracy- I know the invisible assist points help). I'm hoping that people

who have used both the 3 and 5D will share their opinions and impressions on the 5D's system. Do you see it as a

step backward, or does it actually work better? The most obvious fall back is the fewer cross sensor points, and

there doesn't appear to be any coverage on the lines or at the junctions of thirds. I really like them for off center

focusing. As a

prospective buyer of the 5D mkII, I don't know why I would spend that much cash on what I perceive to be an inferior

system. There are many reasons why it's a great camera, but this is important to me as a user (which is why I'd

appreciate hearing if my perceived drawbacks are really all that bad). I wonder if Canon will ever go to an EOS 3 type

system, or do they truly think this is better and are going to stick with it for the MkIII. I have no problem waiting for

the MkIII, but I was really hoping to get the MkII as I now have applications for it.

 

Thanks.

From my brief encounter with 5D2: the number of focus points is the same (as in 5D) but the AF speed and accuracy are vastly improved. I seriously doubt that AF performance in 5D2 will be an issue in real life when used by a proficient photographer for a more-less intended purpose of the 5D series. No, it will neither track a speeding bullet nor focus on Ninjas fighting in a mine shaft on a moonless night, but these are not applications intended for the 5D series.

I find focusing on the 5D to work well for most any subject. You must enable the 6 extra hidden focus points in the custom function. I use the 5D for birds in flight, car racing, sports, and low light work.

 

Sometimes with the 5D you must use the center focus point for best accuracy (and to get the 6 assist focus points). Then re-compose but that is simple (holding the shutter release down & recomposing).

 

If the 5D mark II has improved focusing then it should be fine.

 

If you require 1 series focusing (1D / 1DS) then pony up the money for one.

" My thought is that the 3 is the 5D's film equivalent in the advanced amateur/semi pro class."

 

Yes, but you don't work for Canon. They decide these things, not you. If you want state of the art pro AF, you have two

choices: 1Ds IIII or 1D III. The 5D series was originally designed for gentleman amateurs and the portrait/studio market.

With that said, I've always thought the 5D actually nailed focus better than my EOS 3 (not faster, just more accurately). The EOS 3 is

especially useless

with F3.5 or slower optics.

EOS 3 is a pro body, with pro AF and pro, precise, metering (24 zones), optimized with extensive EX flash work. Due to technical advancement, the 5DmkII AF (auto focus) probably is faster than EOS3 AF, but I doubt is more accurate. Also EOS 1v and EOS 3 can autofocus (with central point) with F 8 aperture lenses ! (ex: F4 + 2x TC) Also, I'm not happy with 35 zones metering system present in 5DmkII (legacy from EOS 300 film body).

 

"My thought is that the 3 is the 5D's film equivalent in the advanced amateur/semi pro class."

Eos 3 was a true pro body (one of the best) with eye focus control and focal plane shutter that last 420000 cycles !

To me the closest to a 3 maybe 1d2n now 1d3, if your using for high speed AF accuracy as in sports or BIF etc. I`m sure you know the 6 hidden points are placed in the spot meter circle and are there to assist center FP only in `A1` mode as it can be difficult to track small subjects with just the one center point. From most accounts I`ve seen the tracking accuracy of the 5d is better than a 40d which has 9 cross FP`s, maybe they confuse the system occasionally :) I have both but have not tested as I don`t do that sort of photos..

Oh yeah, can`t find the link but it was even mentioned on this forum round photokina, a spokes person from canon stated that there were no complaints about the AF focussing of the original 5d, therefore no reason to change. someone may have more info :)

"Yes, but you don't work for Canon. They decide these things, not you. If you want state of the art pro AF, you have two choices: 1Ds IIII or 1D III. The 5D series was originally designed for gentleman amateurs and the portrait/studio market. With that said, I've always thought the 5D actually nailed focus better than my EOS 3 (not faster, just more accurately). The EOS 3 is especially useless with F3.5 or slower optics."

 

Wow- obviously I've offended you. So, you're telling me that an old system in the EOS 3 can't be used in the 5D becuase it's not a pro body? For the price discrepancy, I don't think this reason flies. What is the cost to Canon to put in an old tried and true system in a new camera? What was the cost of a new EOS 3 the last time it was on the shelves compared to the 5D or 5D MkII?

Michael. Paul G, Paul B, and Chris- thank you for your insightful opinions. They have been useful to me- it sounds more like the 5D system is a trade-off, but generally has been an improvement. I would still have liked to have those thirds junctions covered, but I guess that's not to be.

comparing the AF specs for the EOS-3 and EOS-5II, what are the differences? I sense that the AF (using center sensor) on my 40D is as fast as my EOS-3 and EOS-1v. admittedly, I haven't taken them into a darkened closet. I just take photos .. and with no complaints fowards either camera. as I recall, my EOS-3 doesn't even have any built-in AF assist. the key is to understand, recognize, and avoid conditions where the AF begins to falter. of course .. there is also an olde technique called manual-focusing.

 

tillerman

While my 5D won't focus as fast as my 1V, I have no problems with the 5D. Really, the fast AF is only really useful is near dark as fast sports.

<P><I>"Wow- obviously I've offended you. So, you're telling me that an old system in the EOS 3 can't be used in the 5D

becuase it's not a pro body?"</I></P>

 

<P>Don't flatter yourself. I'm not offended. This ain't real life. It's the internet. I'm merely givin' ya the da straight poop.

Although those 45 flashing AF points are cute, the 5D has better AF. I don't want EOS 3 AF in the 5D_. 5D AF is better.

My 5D AF is much better: more dependable and more accurate. The EOS 3 really struggles with slow zooms like the EF

100-400 L USM. No problems on the 5D.</P>

"Although those 45 flashing AF points are cute, the 5D has better AF. I don't want EOS 3 AF in the 5D_. 5D AF is better. My 5D AF is much better: more dependable and more accurate. The EOS 3 really struggles with slow zooms like the EF 100-400 L USM. No problems on the 5D."

 

Umm, ok then... Thanks. It may not be how I interpreted the EOS 3 system, but it's good to hear your experience with the two cameras. This is why I posted- I don't feel like buying a camera that expensive to test my theories.

"It will neither track a speeding bullet nor focus on Ninjas fighting in a mine shaft on a moonless night"

 

WHAT? Dag! There goes all my freelance Hong Kong movie still work. sigh.

<p>Frankly, I have two EOS-3 and on both the AF system is dialed back via custom funciton to use only 11 points. I set them that was after using them about 6 months and find it little different from the 9 points in the 5D/5D II and other mid-level Canon models. That always worked fiine for me. I don't find a huge number of AF points all that big a deal. I fact, I looked at a D700 the other day and found all those AF points in the center a bit distracting. Although, I couild probably get used to it. (I also tired Eye Control on my EOS-3 and found it more trouble than it was worth. It's been turned off the last 6 or 7 years.)<br>

The reason Canon doesn't put their top of the line focus system in their second tier cameras is that they reserve it for their top of the line cameras.<br>

I suspect the AF system of the 5D II is the same as the original 5D, it's the new processor that makes it a little snappier than the one in the earlier model.<br>

The Elan 7/EOS-30/33 and their later "N" versions have essentially the same AF system as the 5/D/5D II.<br>

I think the metering system is the same. 35 zones in the EOS-3, 5D and 5D II.<br>

One thing that bothers me a little about the 5D/5D II AF system, it seems to me the AF points are pretty tightly clustered in the center. I wish they were spread out a bit. Actually, I feel the same way with the AF point distribution in the EOS-3. To me, it's not so much the number of points that's important, more where they are located in the image area.</p>

<p>Oh, and the 45 point AF system of the EOS-3 was pioneered in that camera. It was very revolutionary for it's day.</p>

<p>Canon migrated it into the 1-Series film cameras pretty quickly after the initial success in the 3, but I always wondered if they might have regretted putting it in the EOS-3 at all. It has to have been one of their most popular models ever, but you could probably make an argument that it "stole" quite a few 1V sales over the years.</p>

<p>Gotta be careful not to build your 2nd tier camera too competitive with your top of the line model!</p>

<p>Makes you wonder what the 1Ds Mk IV is going to look like, doesn't it. (Bet it doesn't have video!)</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>Makes you wonder what the 1Ds Mk IV is going to look like, doesn't it. (Bet it doesn't have video!)</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yeah, The 1Ds MK IV will be able to take I-Max video and will be 69MP. (Kidding)</p>

<p>But the 5DII has an instant print button and the EOS 3 doesn't. Surely that trumps everything else.</p>